Help with Ten Commandments argument...

I'm writing an Op/Ed piece for our high school paper concerning the two big cases concerning the Ten Commandments in public places that the Supreme Court will be voting on soon.

But I've read some editorials from the other side, and a lot of them have the same argument, "Atheists and Muslims and whoever else don't have to believe the Ten Commandments, so get over it."

I'm not really sure how to respond to that. I'd like to put that argument in its place, but not sure how....

Your thoughts?

The Constitution prohibits the establishment of religion. Posting the Ten Commandments in a government-owned space implies acceptance and adherence to the tenets. The first Commandment is I AM THE LORD THY GOD, THOU SHALT NOT HAVE strange gods BEFORE ME. So, what's that mean to the person who doesn't believe in the God of the Bible? Or who doesn't believe in God at all? Can he be treated fairly by a government that supports this Commandment? One has to be pretty skeptical.

The "if you don't like it, look the other way" argument only deals with the physical monument - not what the monument stands for.

And one of the commandments is Thou shalt not worship graven images.

I don't know why the Moses Ten are so important suddenly. It talks about not coveting your neighbor's wife, not a word not coveting the muscular gay person next door. Not a word about gay marriage, either.

... in a nutshell:

Separation of church and state in the constitution.

is not in the Constituton. "Thou shall make no law re: Religion" or something like it is, though.

By putting it in public places it is in effect being publicly endorsed and given official approval, despite the obvious contradiction to the separation of church and state. What would they say if we put up a board outlining the tenants of Wiccanism, or even the Koran? Somehow I don't think that the assurance that they don't have to believe in the Goddess or in Allah would mollify the negative reaction.

http://www.kreysler.com/projects/serpent/serpent.htm
There's a Quetzalcoatl statue on public property in dowtown San Jose.

In golden gate park, there is Buddha statue:
http://www.indospectrum.com/travels/ggpark/cd018_buddha_statue_japanese_tea_garden2.html

neutrality on religion, thereby not showing any favoritism or endorsement of any religion.

People who like the 10 commandments can wear it on their clothes, post it on their house, tattoo it on their forehead if they like.

But it's not necessary OR GOOD to use the force or funds of the government to do it.

And that's the real question: why are some people so motivated to use the government to promote a religious stance rather than private citizens doing so?

It's like a bunch of kids and the biggest loudest one saying "Mom, pick me. Tell evveryone I'm the best."

My big beef is that the only one ever put up is a Protestant one, usually Baptist. There are several versions depending on which version of the mythology you believe. You never see the Catholic version, only a protestant version. Each Protestant belief has a different one.I was raised Lutheran, it's different than Methodist, etc. etc..............

commandments to allow gay marriages in their churches, and then tell them to get over it. Force them to display political propaganda for liberals on their billboards which are located on tax free property and then telling them to get over it. They don't want separation of church and state - SO BE IT!

for the Ten Commandments in public spaces? God originally gave them to the Israelites so you'd think they would be the ones pushing for them. Radical Christians talk about how they are part of our "Judeo-Christian" heritage but those who represent the Judeo part are not the people making this an issue.

As for the part about not having to believe in it, that's not an argument. I am a Catholic and don't want the Ten Commendments posted in public buildings. I heard an interesting interview with an evangelical preacher who said that many Christians see government as a necessary component for them to "be good." That explained to me why they are continually carping about what's on TV. They want the government to help them "be good" by regulating behavior. I find them very weak-willed in their need for government assistance.

# 1 is the Treaty of Tripoli, signed on 4 November, 1796 (the end of George Washington's last term as president):

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

#2 is Jefferson's letter explaining that US civil law is not founded on religion but on british common law which predates christianity in Britain.

Both can be found here:

http://www.nobeliefs.com/Tripoli.htm

already won the debate.

But, if you want to play along, I suggest you explore the differences between a 'democracy' and a 'constitutional democracy'.

The majority does not rule in the latter. Any argument to the contrary is literally anti-American.

To sacrifice the important constitutional principles of our great country, even as American soldiers are fighting extremists who hate us for our secular government is unthinkable.

They'll love that. :-)

Well worth reading, presents good arguments.

http://www.decaturdaily.com/decaturdaily/religion/columns/050305.shtml

is good luck and be prepared to be come after.

What is the purpose of the 10 C's? Everyone knows you should not kill or steal or lie but, guess what, people do it anyway. Placing the 10Cs in public will not serve as a deterrent.

Moreover, the other commandments pose moral and ethical dilemmas that are simply outdated for this modern society. "Thou Shalt Not Covet" for instance illustrates that women are a man's property like oxen and asses (donkeys). "Thou Shalt Honor Your Father and Mother" is a very admirable commandment, but what is a victim of child abuse supposed to do? Or what about someone whose parents are just nasty people? Of course, the 1st C is a biggie... no other gods before me. Tell that to a polytheist, an agnostic or an atheist. And don't get me started on the "graven images" and Sabbath deal...

Another point to bring up: is these people's faith so weak that they have to be reminded not to lie, steal, etc.????

The biggest point of all, however, is that once you allow one religion's dictates in public displays, then you allow for all religious dictates, even if they are objectionable. Sure, atheists and others do not have to look at, as Justice Scalia suggested, or believe in these commandments. But how much do you want to wager the ruckus it would cause if the local Satanists posted their creed in public? And what about the Wiccans? Christian Scientists? Scientologists? Buddhists? and all 630 odd Jewish commandments? So, if the 10Cs are allowed to be displayed in public buildings, I would immediately push for other religious displays and I will watch amused :)

Is separation of church and state but the other main problem is the confusion people have about our pluristic society. People are confused by what thier minister says and what our society is. They assume the minister is always right. They say we are a Christian nation. We hae mostly Christians so it is a nation with lots of Christians but not founded on Christianity but Enlightenment philosophy. If the Moses 10 gets knocked down, Reps can use that to say liberals hate god, Jesus, Mary, Luke's donkey, etc and claim secular society failed. Ministers will repeat it at the political rallies in church and people will follow along since they lack proper information, education, and literacy skills (a factory is being built here and so many people failed the literacy test that a crew for one shift doesn't exist let alone 3 shifts).

In short, if this goes our way, we're screwed. If it doesn't go our way, we're screwed.

Aren't Christians supposed to avoid worshipping idols like Jesus statues, Moses 10 monuments, etc?

I think a couple things I'd say are:
1) Which 10 commandments. There is disagreement on the 10 between Jews & Christians and even among christians.
2) if the 10 commandments then basic tenets of any and all other religions should be displayed. Here I am a little vague but some research could surely dig up some goodies such as:
- the vedas for Hindi
- something from some Satan worshippers
- something from the pagans

They all live here and should have a right to have their beliefs in lights if christians do. Probably some of our laws are mentioned in their tenets.

3) the only commandments that are made into laws have been theft and murder. The other 8 have been ignored. Or is there a law on graven idols?

There's the Greek, Anglican, and Reformed Ten commandments:
1. You shall have no other gods but me.
2. You shall not make unto you any graven images
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain
4. You shall remember the Sabbath and keep it holy
5. Honor thy mother and thy father
6. You shall not murder
7. You shall not commit adultery
8. You shall not steal
9. You shall not bear false witness
10. You shall not covet anything that belongs to your neighbor

And then the Jewish Ten Commandments:
1. I am the Lord your God who brought you out of slavery in Egypt.
2. You shall have no other gods but me.
3. You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God.
4. You shall remember and keep the Sabbath day holy.
5. Respect your father and mother.
6. You must not kill.
7. You must not commit adultery.
8. You must not steal.
9. You must not give false evidence against your neighbour.
10. You must not be envious of your neighbour's goods. You shall not be envious of his house nor his wife, nor anything that belongs to your neighbor.

There's the Catholic and Lutheran Ten Commandments:
1. I, the Lord, am your God. You shall not have other gods besides me.
2. You shall not take the name of the Lord God in vain
3. Remember to keep holy the Lord's Day
4. Honor your father and your mother
5. You shall not kill
6. You shall not commit adultery
7. You shall not steal
8. You shall not bear false witness
9. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife
10. You shall not covet your neighbor's goods

Here is a good anaysis of the precise differences in the two, which shows how posting the Ten Commandments clearly violates the Lemon test: that is, it does not have a legitimate secular purpos, its primary effect is advancing a paticular religion and inhibiting others, and it results in an "excessive entanglement" of the government and religion. Here is another good link.

Good luck on your op-ed.