The Vietnam war may have started under Johnson, BUT

NIXON continued it.

Is it that remote that people don't know the history?

I know this and I wasn't even alive during the 1950's. I didn't learn this in elementary or high school history class. I learned it from reading a wide variety of books, journals, magazines and newspapers.

Most Americans are clueless as to our recent history. Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

FDR got us into Vietnam since he was president when the US got first involved in the affairs of Vietnam by sending agents of the OSS to help the guerilla movements in the country. Then to further complicate matters it was HArry S Truman who decided to let the French go back into Vietnam against the advice of same OSS agents who felt we should support Ho Chi Minh amd his wanting independence for his country. Even though he was a socialist, (and suspect to many in power because of it)the agents felt that his respect and views for the United States would make him a valuable and loyal ally.

The first "advisors" and the initial financial aid was under Truman. FDR was planning to support elections and Vietnamese sovereignty. Of course he died. Truman felt that "yellow people" were not capable of democratic self-rule. There is a wonderful book called "Vietnam: A History of Documents" that details the genesis of US involvement, which you would likely enjoy.

that their efforts against the Japanese would result in our support for independence. Instead we gave France the green light to go back in. Things went steadily downhill from there to the rooftop of our embassy in Saigon 30 years later.

The USA could have had a strong friend in southeast Asia. Remember, the initial reason for the US support of the French regaining control had little or nothing to do with the domino theory. The Viet Minh were a group with few actual communist/Marxists. There were far more democrats, for example. Yet the majority were what I think we could call democratic communalists, who based their "politics" and "economics" on a traditional culture that was as old as, and very similar to, that of Native Americans in parts of the American continents. Further, Ho's declaration of independence was inspired almost entirely by Jefferson.

but how do you define a war? Were any US advisors sent to Vietnam betwen 1954, when the French left, and 1960, when Eisenhower sent about 900 so-called military "advisors"? Is the French-Indochina war the same war as the Vietnam war involving the US? Or was there a gap of several years, therefore making it a separate war? Other than that splitting of hairs, I agree with your position.

To be very clear: there were US "advisors" there before Ike. I think the "divide" you are speaking of would include the post-Dien Bien Phu period and the 1956 marking of the 17th parallel as a result of the Geneva Conference. I think it marked a change in the nature of the war, but it is fair to say that from 1946 on, Ho fought one long, complicated war for independence.

I believe that Kennedy inherited the situation from Eisenhower and the French.

the buck back to the previous president. But Johnson was the one who upped the anty and took us out of the realm of a few thousand advisors and sending them some crap left over from WWII to having several hundred thousand troops and spending couple of billion dollars a year to fight a war. In my opinion it was Johnson who started the real war.

rather, I was simply stating the facts to the original poster.

The escalation of the war is an entirely different (and worthwhile) topic of discussion.

He escalated it from minor to major, as ordered by SOMEBODY(THEM).

Johnson was a liberal. Like a lot of the post-ww-II liberals, he was also an anti-communist hawk, a cold-warrior liberal. Vietnam separated the hawks from the democratic mainstream, and Johnson separated the racist southern Democrat white segregationist power structure from the Democratic Party finally and forever. If you can figure out if we should hate or revere LBJ, you let me know, 'cause forty years later I still can't figure it out.

bombed Pearl Harbor..."

You're telling me The Great Society was a CONSERVATIVE program?

Unless you fill in A LOT of missing details with backup, I ain't buyin' what you're sellin'.

If this is a response to that crapass e-mail that was posted on DU earlier and is an attempt to deflect the smear, it's a poor attempt at that too, no offense. NEVER concede to their smears, as soon as you move to deflect, you've already lost.

JMHO

I'm 16 and I honestly wasn't living in that time. explain to me how vietnam started.

on the history of foreign involvement in Vietnam. The French Colonial period was followed by US involvement which was limited at first and then escalated. Many people know how Vietnam ended but few know how and WHY it began.

As for not living at that time, that is no excuse for putting forth a statement like that. You got that info from somewere, post your source.

I wasn't alive either at the start, but a little research will take you a long way. You, as I have been exposed to the most widely reported and covered era of the Vietnam war, but that was merely a part of it.

Stop_the_War is a great nick, but you should be coming to that position based on facts, I encourage you to take some time and review the history of the Vietnam War more thoroughly. The French were there long before the US arrived for starters.

Also, PLEASE don't take the comments you received on here personally, as it seems you have learned by your nick War is a highly charged topic. The posters here in my opinion replied to inform, not attack. I welcome you and apologize if you felt my comments were heavy-handed in any way.

But we were the ones who wised up and began to advocate getting out.

Check out Bobby Kennedy's presidential run.

wrong or accept the error of your words.

Johnson attempted to fortify his "anti-communist" credentials by upping the ante, thinking that it would be a quick and easy victory against a group of badly armed "insurgents". It was not until the public started to grasp the cost of the war in bodies and treasure that the Democrats began to oppose the war. Up until then, most of the public supported the war under the usual rubric of "fighting communism", "support our troops", and all of the other devices so beloved of politicians.

Very few politicians of that time didn't have blood on their hands. Only Wayne Morse comes to mind.

"Now we have a problem in making our power credible, and Vietnam is the place." John F. Kennedy 1961

Vietnam started under Eisenhower, simmered under Kennedy, boiled over under Johnson with the help of McNamara, collapsed under Nixon and was lost under Ford. That's 25 years for those of you playing along at home.

I hope that it does not take 25 years and multiple administrations for the Iraq war to come to an end.

The vietnames started up agains the French in the 30's, transitioned to fighting the Japanese (with our support and promises of independence that we then betrayed them on) and then the French again and then they got to us.

American involvement began long before Ike. FDR actually had a fair relationship with Ho, who the OSS refered to as "our little man in the jungle." FDR supported the idea of Vietnamese sovereignty, but obviously he died. Truman was not in favor of an independent Vietnam, and is quoted in an infamous document as saying the Vietnamese were not ready for democracy. Military aid to France began under Truman, including financing the French effort, as well as sending some military "advisors."

It is worth noting, in honor of the idea that we Americans can learn from history, that the historic regions of Tonkin (north) Annam (middle) and Cochin (south) had been established as a distinct nation by 200 bc. From the 111 bc invasion by China to the US involvement in the 1960s, the Vietnamese were in near constant battles against outside aggression.

Ho was a man of history. As we all know, he studied in Paris, and was interested in everything from the US-Indian wars to Marxism. But his primary interest was his own nation. One of his favorite sayings, "Although we have been at times strong/ at times weak/ we have at no time lacked heroes" was actually a quote from the 15th century poet Nguyen Trai. Trai had joined forces with guerrilla leader Le Loi in a 9-year battle against Mongol invaders. Loi was also a historian/poet, and Ho used to quote him: "Our people long ago established Vietnam as an independent nation with its own civilization. We have our own mountains and rivers, our own customs and traditions ..."

So there's a little history lesson. (wink)

Is it an attempt to somehow limit LBJ's responsibility for expanding and fully commiting us in VietNam?

It was bad when Ike sent advisors.
It was bad when JFK maintained the practice.
It was bad that LBJ got us into a fully commiited shooting war.
It was bad that Nixon maintained the practice for 5 years.
It was good that Nixon eventually got us out.

They are all equally guilty of that mess, REGARDLESS of party affiliation.

if the democratic party decides to run LBJ in 2008, we need to clear this up now.