So what will YOU do when Social Security goes private?

WARNING: Pessimistic observation ahead.

OK, I've been watching the social security ruckus for a while now. My take on it is this: we can scream all we want. We can contact as many public representatives at all levels of government that we want and express our desires to have the current system tweaked but essentially left alone. We can picket. We can shout high holy-hell and bring the blood-thunder and the hammer of the gods down, but it ain't gonna change a thing. At some point, we're going to have to deal with at least a partially privatized social security system. The groundwork for this has been laid for years now, and the corporate/financial interests and the lobbyists aren't going to let it go, period.

I'm not interested in hearing why I'm wrong about my conclusions. I'm interested in hearing what strategies you intend to employ once the system goes private. Will you participate and hope for the best? Will you opt out, take the reduced benefits and hope to make up the shortfall on your own? What would you do if this change were forced upon you? How would you make applesauce out of a wormy batch of apples?

However, I doubt it.

I still haven't given up hope that the privatization can be avoided. Whether or not you're "interested."

Anytime someone tells me they're going to charge some other person or cut some other person's benefits, I know that they'll come back to me eventually.

lies the fallacy of it all. I am old, too and drawing MY (emphasis on MY) money from SS... and I pray the Nazi's don't get that stopped... but I do not look for ANY honest words out of the Shrub's mouth at all. We will all wait with baited breath...

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why is Bush doing this ridiculous town-hall-type tour if there's no chance of it happening? They know how unpopular it is. If it's really set to go down in flames, then this stupid tour is just a Humiliationapalooza. Are they totally deluded?

I don't know what to think. My fear is that something will be forced through Congress -- something that doesn't look too bad on the surface, but a few months later when everyone has had time to read all 4,000 pages it'll become clear to most of us that it's a big corporate money grab. But since the checks that'll be affected won't come for a few years down the road, everyone will just sigh and forget about it -- it'll be too damn convoluted to figure out.

Then, at election time 2008, they'll drag out the tapes of the tour and talk about how the Republicans saved Social Security!

Seriously, they really thought they had the "political capital" to pull it off and that with enough propoganda they could do it. They were wrong and they can't admit it, so they keep going anyway. Bush will NEVER admit he was wrong or that he failed, so he's all in and heading for a cliff and will keep going right over.

They bougth their own bullshit and believe their own lies.

I think that as part of the treason sentencing after the impeachment they should be sent on a world tour by this name.

"but a few months later when everyone has had time to read all 4,000 pages it'll become clear to most of us that it's a big corporate money grab..."

And the corporate match will have somehow disappeared. Not that it will matter by then.

BUT...the way that * is pushing this garbage, it's almost as if he KNOWS that it's been spent already and this is just the coverup.

and yes, this push for privatization may be an attempt to cover up the trillions they've stolen, but it's failing and failing miserably and undeniably.

Yeah, the moneyballers behind all of this will just give up and ride quietly off into the night. The years and millions spent by the lobbyists will just be written off. The whole thing was just a dandy crapshoot, but what the hell, it was worth a shot.

You really think that? You really think that Wall Street will give up it's chance to pimp the system for all it's worth?

Right-o. Look, not too long ago, the thought of invading Iraq would have been laughed at, too. But on hindsight, it had been in the works for years. The groundwork had been laid, the plan was in place, all it needed was the right players in the right places to make it happen. You got the same setup with Social Security. The financial companies have been lobbying and lining pockets for years. The transfer of wealth in other areas is well underway. Take the blinders off and look at it objectively.

Those who want this will get it. Don't underestimate this administration.

Never for a second thought they wouldn't invade or that anyone would or could stop them. Not the same, not the same at all, not even close.

I think you overestimate them. They're not superhuman and invoking 9/11 won't help them nearly as much w/ this con.

But my feeling is that we will get hoodwinked once more. There are shady players at work here, and we have not yet seen the dirty trickage that will surely come into play at some point. We've seen bits and pieces of it already, but the big push is yet to come, IMO.

I WANT to believe that we have a voice here, but time and again we have been proven not to.

It ain't gonna get much better. Yes, they will keep trying, but there's only so much poison you can shove down people's throats.

and stuff all my dollars, pennies, nickles and dimes in a mayonnaise jar. My other great-grandmother kept a roll of cash (big enough to choke a clydesdale) in a shoebox under her bed.

Save your nickles. Hard times are coming.

My mom found a grocery bag with a bunch of old, ratty underwear in it and went to toss it out. My grandmother almost had a stroke and took the bag away from my mother, pulling out the layer of old lady underwear to reveal that the bag was actually stuffed with copious amounts of cash.

Some old people that remember the Depression just don't trust banks, even today.

That's a great story. MY Mom anmd Dad are very much cut from the same cloth. My Dad is 88 years old and has never written a check or had a credit card. He is strictly a cash customer all the way around. BUT, he's never been in debt, never had to answer a collection call, never had to worry about his credit rating, etc.

We need to get back in touch with those ways, IMO. We're going to lose that generation completely soon, and I don't think we've learned all that we need to from them.

Seriously, really have no idea. It will depend on the rest of the economy and conditions of society by then.

I feel things will get fairly horrible in our society and the haves will end up with nothing (it will serve them right, instant karmas gonna' get them!). It could turn to total anarchy within 25 years, maybe less. I have always been an optimist, now I am a realist and it sucks.

Thanks for your post jandrok, made me think some more.

And make meat loaf out of it.

I'm a lefty too! Whee! Ain't life grand, we're in our right mind.

If you're worried about the stock market etc. then keep it in a savings account or buy CDs. Don't rely on the government, rely on yourself.

And I will go to work for a company with close ties to the Bush Administration.

Those on the ground floor will make millions during the first decade before the whole ponzi scheme collapses.

but then again i dont work in the mainstream so i dont pay into scosec

money, it doesn't always work in this day and age. We are a one income family. But we try. We don't buy stocks, and I am not betting on SS to get us through our golden years. No matter who or what comes down the political pipeline in the future. Just the way it is. I don't know at this point if SS can be saved to the point that our elders and our families will be able to live off of it without worry. With the cost of medical care going up, and the cost of anything that comes from a prescription....save...save....save. That's what we are doing, and will continue to do.

I will NOT invest my fund in their selected wall street funds. NO WAY. If I invest in any stocks, it wont be US Stocks or any on their list.

The reich-wingers hate "socializing" things.

i'm bitter about it too. my mother raised me to look out for my retirement.

back then (the late 80s) it was supposed to be a 3-pronged approach: your pension, social security and your retirement savings.


well when i got into the workforce i began to realize hardly any companies give pensions anymore, and if SS goes away, what the hell is left but my 401K and IRA?

It's time to pull it back to the three pilars FDR visioned...a retirement based on 1/3 savings, 1/3 pension and 1/3 social security. This was designed with the thoughts that anyone who worked would have a benevolent employer who would provide their workers with a decent wage and pension. Of course this never happened, and for years the unions gave many a place to establish a long-term pension.

The concept was the 1/3 for savings was your "rainy day" money, the 1/3 in the pension would be used for more aggressive investments since their major purpose was to accrue capital and the social security was a safety net to fill whatever gaps the other who couldn't provide.

What's needed and isn't articulated enough is the Democrats plan to get a better return on the money currently paid into SS...for decades these funds earn dirt for interest and bringing it closer to the prime would mean the difference between dog food and a nice dinner for an elderly couple.

Corporations have been shirking their responsibilities to their employees...past and present and the government is an accomplice. Someone needs to amplify what a sound retirement really is, not the further raid on what's left of the treasury.

selling it for cash until the day I die.

Fuck Bush....I'm not giving a penny to his crap corporate financial security program.

I have been saving and investing since I was 18 years old. I collected social security survivor benefits for five years after my mother died - it was a pittance ($75 a month) that didn't do much to help. So I figured out young that SS wasn't going to be there for me when I got old. If it is still there for me to collect when I get over 65, or 70, or whatever age, it will be a tiny amount. I'm hoping that the private investments I've made over the course of my life hold up, and I can support myself later. So I live below my means, squirrel away, save, invest, and hope that I don't get a catastrophic illness or injury.

I think you're wise to be taking that tack.

I'm in my 40s. I already know that you can't possibly save or invest enough in private investments to pay for retirement. I've been doing it for more than 20 years. Keep in mind that if you save 10 percent of your income, then after 10 years...you will have one year's worth of income. (And this is assuming that you can get enough return to make up for losses caused by inflation and taxes -- doubtful in a world of double or triple digit inflation in health care costs and 4 percent returns on your certificate of deposits.)

The private part of Social Security is not going to be anywhere near close to 10 percent of income. Join or don't join, you'll work all your life and have enough money for a few months retirement at the end of it in your gov't approved private account.

I have never understood why anyone would wait for government permission to invest their own money. You could have and should have been doing it in IRAs and other investments since age 18. If you had, you would unfortunately know the sorry truth, which is that private investment will never make up for the loss of pensions and Social Security. It was meant to be a way to allow people to have a few extras in their old age. But people are living into their 80s now. You are not going to be strong enough to work much past 65 or 70, and it isn't possible to save enough in private accounts to provide for 10 or more years of retirement.

So what is the point? Go ahead and enjoy what you can today, and forget about having a decent retirement. There is no point in straining to do the impossible. Open your gov't approved private account or spend the money doing something nice for yourself today. Whatever. It won't make a hill of beans in the long term, except that the person who cheats himself of his youth to save an impossible sum of money is likely to be a very bitter and unhappy old person when he finally sees the truth.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72