why don't women snap and go on killing rampages?

all the cases of a person snapping and going on murderous rampage that i know of involve men. i personally do not know of any female examples of this, unless i just missed it.

why do men snap like this? why don't women?

it has to be that.

but they tend to kill their families. Think about the woman in Texas who drowned her five children.

The most recent was Eilen Wormous.

she killed johns mainly, the random guys kill large numbers of strangers.

There is a difference between someone who has one killing spree and a serial killer. Brian Nichols is not a serial killer. The murders he committed were related. Furthermore, the victims weren't powerless, random strangers.

85% of serial killers are men.

excerpts
http://www.sociology.org/content/vol003.002/hinch_d.html

The Definition
Egger's (1990)1 frequently cited (Geberth and Turco 1997; Keeney and Heide 1994; McKenzie 1995) definition of serial murder provides a convenient point to begin our discussion. Egger says a series of killings may be classified as serial murder when:

...one or more individuals (males, in most known cases) commits a second murder and/or subsequent murder; is relationshipless (no prior relationship between victim and attacker); is at a different time and has no connection to the initial murder; and is usually committed in a different geographic location. Further, the motive is not for material gain and is believed to be for the murderer’s desire to have power over his victim. Victims may have symbolic value and are perceived to be prestigeless and in most instances are unable to defend themselves or alert others to their plight, or are perceived as powerless given their situation in time, place or status within their immediate surroundings (such as vagrants, prostitutes, migrant workers, homosexuals, missing children, and single and often elderly women). (1990:4).

We show how (1) the notion that the killers are male, (2) the assumption that they kill mostly strangers, (3) the notion that they don't kill for financial gain, (4) and the notion that their victims are powerless

For example, Hickey's (1997) data shows that female serialists account for almost 15% of known serialists operating in the United States from 1800 to 1995. These percentages of male and female killers are comparable to the percentages of male and female murderers found among one time killers.

...of running around, armed to the teeth, shooting up the place. I
tell ya, Arnie and Sly have a lot to answer for :)

And don't forget video games like Grand Theft Auto too! <not really>

It's both nature & nurture, IMO.

Probably leans toward nature in that women are more evolved and fantasize about world peace and no one going hungry rather than controlling and dominating people. ;)

hate to sound sick, but she killed johns.

I want to barf every time I hear about the families saying that she took a "good family man" from them. What a stinking pile, they were looking to pay for pussy and she shot them. That's called assumption of risk.

And Aileen never had a chance in hell. Her Dad was convicted of raping and murdering a little girl in the neighborhood and hung himself in prison, while she was growing up. There is no telling what he did to HER.

and it almost seems like it belongs in another category. she snapped but took it out on her own children, very personal.

but the pshycho men kill random strangers or bosses who fired them or like the guy last week in the church group, against his own congregation. weird weird weird.

...rampages.

One day, scientists will find a "pill" for men, to get them through the testosterone rages.

I used to own a store at the mall. Every night around closing time, packs of wild teen boys would roam the mall looking for girls, yelling at anything in a skirt.

"Hey! Hey! Hey! What's your phone number?"

Good lord. There's gotta be a cure for that.

it's a mood altering drug.

the Y chromosome is only good for about 40 more generations, apparently, but if we don't mitigate it somehow we'll extinct ourselves way before that.

And make your lives miserable for the rest of your endless days.

Like a cat with a mouse.

If for the fact that you can run a computer; I would think
you are my ex.

Needless to say, I've been divorced for 15 years (twice)

No, really I'm not that vindictive, but if someone hurts me deliberately, revenge is sweet.

we are better at saying :wtf: However - that's only my opinion.

I'm sure women snap too. But from what I've noticed they seem to vent their rage on people they know rather than random strangers.

Remember them? Kids even had that rhyme they made about that Lizzy. Also Mansons gals may not have called the shots but they sure went along on the ride.

Maybe it is just who they kill that seems not so odd. Kids would seem pretty bad to me but maybe that does not seem so bad as just killing people you hardly know.

Men have to practically beg for it.

pent up sexual frustration, internalized anguish, chimps do it too.

That is so true!

Men bottle thier emotions/pain inside... and it eventually explodes, sometimes in the most violent manner.

I agree that's probably the largest factor involved.

big boys don't cry, and if they do, all the girls laugh at them. When I was in the 6th grade, there was a third grader who wanted to fight me just to prove he could take a puny 6th grader. I was not going to fight for no reason, although if he had held onto my coat for another minute he would have given me a reason. There was this girl who used to kinda flirt with me, and after that she went out of her way to make fun of me. So apparently young Paula Tarver liked her boys to be big and violent.

and women are raised to appreciate that quality in men.

Wonderful, isn't it?

except for Lola."

... that when people are under stress, their bodies build up TOXINS which are RELEASED IN TEARS.

Think of it! nature has provided us a LIFESAVING process to clease our systems of poisons -- but only about half of us are taking advantage of it.

No wonder women outlive their husbands, when men are slowly poisoning themselves by refusing to cry.

Guys, if you have to put on a sad song or watch a tape of your team losing -- whatever it takes -- have a good thorough CLEANSING cry.

Girls, pass this information along to your men. (It's SCIENTIFIC, so maybe they'll respect it.)

--WhirlyG

Why do we do this to our sons? It makes absolutely NO sense!

,... theory whenever I cry.

If you have some scientific material/studies backing that assertion,...I would absolutely LOVE to have it in hand!!! :bounce:

However, I do believe you fill find none. It would be fabulous if scientific studies relating to such a theory were performed though, whether they show them to be true or not.

Personally, I believe the aggression explored by the OP really is related to a combination of hormones, environmental factors, brain functioning and genes.

WHAT DOES RESEARCH TELL US ABOUT CRYING?
Dr. William Frey, a biochemist in Minnesota, has researched the CHEMICAL CONTENT of human tears. One of the substances found in tears was the stress hormone ACTH. . . .
-- http://www.awareparenting.com/tantrums.htm

And Just, when someone says they've seen research, it's sort of rude to suggest they made it up. It took me about thirty seconds to Google the above, and you could as easily have done so.

-- WhirlyG

----------
<< If you have some scientific material/studies backing that assertion, I would absolutely LOVE to have it in hand!!! However, I do believe you will find none. It would be fabulous if scientific studies relating to such a theory were performed though . . . >> JustMe

It seems to release stress toxins, also.

If the rampaging people had done more yoga - they may not have been shooting up the place.


(But then - it could be different with men :shrug: )

... but not as frequently. Happened in the small city where I live about ten years ago. Woman went bonkers, shot two or three of her family and then walked out into the street, shooting at anything that moved. Killed five or six people in a minute or two.

are those 2 that went on a penis chopping off spree. If one penis is chopped off it's one too many so I consider it serial penis murder.

...... just like Salmon have to swim upstream ......
some women have to drive men crazy. "They" (not all)
will find your last nerve and grind on it endlessly.

they go after Big Luke and the Jiggle Boys with scissors, that's just not right.

/sarcasm

down in Texas.

through PMS cycles, you know. We learn you may feel like killing someone for about 24-48 hours or so, but it will blow over. LOL
I work with about 10 women and everyone of them has days when they say, Just don't talk to me, I'm a bitch today! And we all understand.

Men have much more difficulty handling powerful emotion. Less practice. More testosterone. Lack the natural ability to talk about emotion that women have.

Saying it's all because of hormones, and men are born that way? You'll never be president of Harvard with that kind of Neanderthal attitude.

I think we're all the same at birth, but we were brought up with different cultural expectations.

... men and women are different, and that is that. No amount of wishing will change it. It is funny how when the comments about the differences are perceived to be "negative" towards women, the commentor is villified, but if it's negative towards men well that's just how it is.

Funny, it's fucking hilarious :)

We take girls and boys and train them to act different but also their own make up is some what different to start with. That is some thing which you can not do much about. It is just in the genes like having a child that is shy. Life is just looked at as different from each sex. Mostly training but some thing in the genes also, play some part of it. I do think they have looked at the brain and see different parts are used for things in the sexes.

Men are hardwired differently and have different hormones. Testosterone does play a role.

Environment also plays a role. In our male dominated society, it's acceptable for men to be more physically aggressive.

If we'd stop doing that, they'd be able to cope with emotions more capably.

then a son. Raising both genders is what it took to get me out of believing that. It was a shock. Now I accept it as I do the fact that men are XY and women are XX.

told to keep the peace. I do not think we bring up women to do that now. I am not saying it was right it was just a way of life.

Seems like a pretty big 'snap' to me.

Until recently at least, men had the training in weapons in military service or for hunting. So when they snap, reaching for a gun is easy.

Should be interesting to see if rampages by women begin to appear now that so many women are handling weapons in the military.

Higher tolerance for BS I think. We have to give birth after all and deal with PMS.

Charles Starkweather and his girlfriend, her name is on the tip of my tongue, were the first recognized spree killers back in the 50s.

suffered Post-partum Depression and killed their children. That's a little scary.

cross that line into "psychosis." Albeit some studies estimate that up to 20% of women report mild to moderate depressive symptoms, less than 1% become psychotic. That's when they are a true danger to their children.

Obviously there should be more support for women post partum. If it were men suffering this illness, there would be support group rooms at yer local "Home Depot." LOL

I've "snapped" at home many times over the years. The prisons are filling up with women these days--mostly for drug use but not a few husband/man killers in there too ie: Betty Broderick

And don't forget the women in military these days..they use GUNS. wow

I'm so stressed out and under pressure my doc put me on DRUGS. The difference between me and the unibomber is that I care about innocent bystanders....

If I were to let rip, it would be with "special people" in mind..ahem.

Gee, to think I used to be a "fun, mellow chick" O8)

I think women are also "hardwired" to accept "difficulties" better. If you look at it on an evolutional level..Men are hunters.. If they are not aggressive, the families often do not get protein.

Women tend to children, gardens and "gathering"... all are "long term and sometimes frustrating tasks.. Men are the "Gotta do it NOW" beings..I think their impulse centers are wired differently and maybe that's why so many more of these perpetrators are men.
just my .02

include social distinctions that are often separate from physiological ones and that gender is more of a continuum than a binary.

Just as there are far more violent murders in this country than in Canada -- which has as many guns per capita as the U.S., has much the same cultural history, and shares a lot of popular culture with us -- the answer to why some American men go on murderous rampages is probably not due to hard wiring of the brain or to gendered hormones.

Most of the rampages involve guns. Men are more often taught how to use guns, more men own guns and have access to them, and the icons of American culture more often depict a man with a gun than a woman with a gun. The influence of traditional religious beliefs on gender roles can suggest that a man is expected to be more aggressive, and the cultural connection between military service and religious belief makes an impact, too.

I find it interesting that even here on DU the old dichotomies still persist.


Tansy Gold

there must be a mix between the testosterone and impulse control.

I suppose there could be something about expectations thrown in there also. Women are expected (even required) to tolerate more.

Men - not so much.


Just look at the shows geared toward women and the shows geared toward men. Women (Oprah/Jane) are all about dealing/coping with and solving problems. The "men" oriented shows seem to be about the glorification of being a jerk. (I'm thinking the Comedy Channel here).

Check out this link for some fascinating links on Susan Smith (who killed her kids) and Mary Kay Le Tourneau (imprisoned for sexual abuse of her 13 year old lover). Both had fathers who were prominent in Republican politics:

http://www.johnjemerson.com/zizka.sex.htm

The woman who drowned most of the 5 kids she birthed? I'd call that a rampage.

It was probably hormonal for her, so I guess that's about the same as the testosterone rage of men. Yates, though, was imprisoned by her husband, forced by her repressive religion to bear more children AFTER she had been diagnosed with mental illness (she heard voices telling her to kill her children)and had a serious condition of post partum depression.

The manifestation of a long-simmering mental illness, as opposed to just plain ol' violence.

Frankly, I think it has to do more with socialization: women tend to internalize their feelings as taught from childhood ("It's not 'nice' to get mad at other people") and take out their emotional outbursts on themselves, as opposed to other people.

Actually, some do; in the 70s a woman opened fired on a playground. All I can remember about it was that she said she did because she didn't like Mondays (and was the inspriation for the song, "I Don't Like Mondays" by the Boomtown Rats).

working twice as hard for half the pay can take it out of you...

How about Karla Faye Tucker?

Female psychos are less common than male, but they still occur.

squeaky didn't suddenly take out multiple ramdom victims like the men do. the texas tower guy, the mcdonald's rampage guy, the postal workers, the church guy last week, the columbine boys, they all seem to want to take out A LOT of people.

Did she ever kill anyone? Not a nice person, but the question was about killers.

US Dept of Justice Statistics

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/crimoff.htm#women

Women offenders

In 1998 there were an estimated 3.2 million arrests of women, accounting for 22% of all arrests that year.

Based on self-reports of victims of violence, women account for 14% of violent offenders, an annual average of about 2.1 million violent female offenders.

Women accounted for about 16% of all felons convicted in State courts in 1996: 8% of convicted violent felons, 23% of property felons, and 17% of drug felons.

In 1998 more than 950,000 women were under correctional supervision, about 1% of the U.S. female population

***
I had noted that men commit 90% of violent crimes in another post, but apparently that number is actually 86%.

The violent crime rate for women has been increasing over the decades. I think this is due to the enviornmental factors. The traditional gender roles are fading somewhat. Women are becoming more empowered, thus the sex differentiation is becoming a little less pronounced socially (obviously not physically).

For example women in my experience tend to get mad and hold that grudge for a long time. Talk to any married man and you get the same tale of the wife being mad about XYZ and she brings up ABC 4 years ago.

Men are different at least I know I am, if I get really upset I get sort of a burst of anger just a second or two that is extremely intense then I tend to get over it pretty quickly from there.

a primate thing. monkeys and apes do it too, go on rampages and kill and make war. if invaders came by with ill intent, men probably had to go on rampages, who knows.

"Hard-wired" in reference to gender differences. The implication is that certain behaviors so innately unchangeable that there's no point in expecting people to use their intelligence and reasoning to overcome their "hard wiring". GMAFB :eyes:
It's usually, just conveniently, things that are enjoyable to or benefit males (i.e., using anger to get what you want or screwing around on your partner) that are viewed this way and it leads to the belief that we shouldn't be too hard on guys b/c 'they just can't help it the poor hard wired darlings'. But women are viewed more harshly for the same infractions because it's seen as going against our supposedly hard wired sweet, nurturing, monogamous natures. Same old double standards, disguised in pseudo-science, in my book.

it just popped into my head. Incase your wondering this male has never used his 'hardwiring' as an excuse to throw a temper tantrum or cheat on his spouse . If I lost my temper I damn well knew it was my own fault for not being an adult and instead acting like a child. :argh:

I actually agree with you that intelligence and forethought can be used to overcome basic tendencies. At the same time environment can instill into some tendenices which they may not have naturally had and I believe intelligence and forethought can overcome those as well.

So in the context of my post I was NOT using 'hardwiring' as an excuse for a man or a womans behavior only as a possibility of something that might cause the snap if that person for whatever reason was in a weakened state of self control at that time.

But to act as if no there is no basic difference between the sexs chemically and that this couldn't possibly have a role in causing one to 'snap' is naive.

I'm just sick of certain memes rampant in society and the media and that's one of them.

As I read your post I could also envision some savvy attorney offering the "Hardwired Male Snap Response" as a defense in a murder case.

There ARE physiological differences between men and women. You can't deny that hormonal differences exist and many studies show, hardwiring differences exist. But of course, enviornment plays a big role too. Some synapse connections are influenced by enviornment.

Socially, we are much more permissive of men being aggressive. It starts when they are boys. It's ok for boys to wrestle, fight, and use physical means to express themselves or dominate, but girls are socialized not to do this.

Furthermore, we have a very patriachial system whereby men dominate. This envio factor also has an influence on behaviors.

to solve problems and women are taught to live with problems.

Not that I think that's right, but I think, down deep, that's the reason.

in a physical mannner. females bring the destruction within to self. beat up self. could be testostrone, but i believe they say it is because females are taught they have to be nice, they dont learn to project anger out. they still have it, it is jsut self destructive, wherre as males have the green lite to allow anger to strike out, they are allowed to show anger.

the tide is turning though. more and more females are picking up the striking out in anger in learned fashion. one of the equalities i dont like seeing females gain

didn't someone say war and killing is similar to love and sex... just in the opposite negative sense.

if i "had to make an example" i'd make it very visible as well, so i don't have to repeat it.

Snapped and went on a shooting rampage through the posh North Shore suburbs of Chicago in 1988.

"I don't like Mondays". She killed kids in a schoolyard. I believe that happened in England.

I think Laurie Dann went after kids as well.

But, seemingly, ... much more rarely.

There was a woman named Laurie Dann who shot up a school in Winnetka, Illinois, ... killing a random 8-year-old boy, and critically wounding five others.

The case of Laurie Dann ...

Also ... female serial murder often looks different than male serial murder.

Women have been known to kill over long periods of time ... and by less overt methods (poisonings vs. shootings).

Black Widows (who repeatedly marry and, then kill their husbands) would fall into this category of killer.

Other female serial killers ...

When most women snap it is in a cunning way with much thought! Most men that snap are extremely crude with no thought!

Sylvia Seegrist. Went on a shooting spree in PA back in 1985.
Here's the story.
http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/mass/sylvia_seegrist/index.html

There's more I'm sure.

especially white men

most especially repuke white men

Simple explanation. Hard to argue with. Perfect!
The Professor

the only thing worse than a man is a woman

There is nothing worse than humans. Trust me. Not being from your world, i can tell you that humans are useless. They just spoil this whole planet.
The Professor

A world ruled by dogs! Cool!
The Professor

female dogs are the worst, too.

:P

can kill so randomly and non-randomly that they are feared and therefore they rule or is it because they have some inherent intelligence for ruling or both. And, why are women not in charge of the world if they are not inherent random and non-random killers or is it because they do not have inherent intelligence for ruling or both.

I, personally, suspect that men rule the world because they kill and are feared and that the answer to the world's dilemma is for men to acknowledge their propensity for killing and work with women to put women in charge. Perhaps, just perhaps, we can then live without fear.

PS. Please don't beat me up for saying this!

Why are most societies male dominated? Because they use violence and oppression to maintain control.

I do think the fact that men commit 86% of violent crimes is due to sexism (oppression) but also that there are physiological differences.

It's difficult to separate out nurture from nature because envio actually influences brain wiring. Synapse connections (and thought processes) are not purely nature. Children go through a few major synapse pruning periods, the last one being in adolescence. Socialization influences which synapse connections are pruned and which ones remain.

<sarcasm> :eyes:

it conflicted with my nail appointment:P

People snap and kill who is at hand. In the case of women, it's usually children.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

I buy a new handbag... or spend the day at the salon or gym.

Men are more likely to take it out on someone else. Generally speaking, of course.

I remember reading something about this in a book by John Douglas. He was saying that children who are harshly abused often grow up to be repeatedly incarcerated. The women generally took it out themselves, becoming prostitutes or drug addicts. The men took it out on everyone else, committing violent crimes of various sorts.

if you have the bad luck to cross me on a angst "water retention" PMS day, you might wish you were dead. :evilgrin:

Not many, I think.

It doesn't build up to a killing frenzy when we bitch everyone out once a month or so....:)

Brenda Spencer was one of the first school shooters ever. I remember this because I was a freshman in high school in San Diego (where the incident took place) at the time. Also, I'm reminded every time I hear the song the Boomtown Rats wrote about it, "I Don't Like Mondays."

From Snopes:

On 29 January 1979, 16-year-old Brenda Ann Spencer opened fire on children arriving at Cleveland Elementary School in San Diego from her house across the street, killing two men and wounding eight students and a police officer. Principal Burton Wragg was attempting to rescue children in the line of fire when he was shot and killed, and custodian Mike Suchar was slain attempting to aid Wragg.

Spencer used a rifle her father had given her as a gift. As to what impelled her into this form of murderous madness, she told a reporter,''I don't like Mondays. This livens up the day.''

http://www.snopes.com/music/songs/mondays.asp

It does seem to be more of a male dominated occurrence though.

:shrug:


For free.

if a women gets testosterone injections, she becomes both excessively ambitious and prone to uncontrollable rages, among other things.

The female of the species is more deadly than the male?

Something like the tigress is more deadly than the male tiger when defending her cubs?

The mother animal is INVESTED in her young.. Her body suffers so that the young can live. If her young dies, it takes a long time to replace that young one (mammals in the wild).. Human males will die to protect their young, but in mammalian species where young are actually reared, only the mother will give her life to protect her "baby"..This is why they have small litters or only oone offspring, as opposed to reptiles, fish, amphibians and insects that lay gazillions of eggs.. Nature intended for most of those eggs and hatchlings to be food for other animals..

maybe a bit different then "snapping and going on murderous rampage", but still.

;) :shrug:

Seriously, I don't know. :)