Some thoughts from a member of the religious left:

I was sitting here this morning thinking about the religious right and I realized a few things:

1. They use Jesus like a weapon. Not just the religion of Christianity, but Jesus. Sure, they don't talk about him much, and certainly they avoid talking about his teachings, as they are antithetical to what they do and endorse. But Christianity is BASED on Jesus, it's ABOUT this guy's teachings. So when you use Christianity as a weapon, you are using Jesus as a weapon, brandishing him at your enemies like a gun.

2. There are a few reasons why the religious left has been unable or unwilling to address this:

a) lack of organization, ESPECIALLY when compared to the religious right. Fortunately, that is changing. Believe it or not, I think this is the most minor factor.

b) the religious left tends to be rather quiet as a matter of principle. The religious left (and I know I'm speaking in generalizations here) is made up mostly of people who do not believe in wearing their beliefs on their sleeves, people who do not believe in "praying in public where everyone can hear you" but in the humility of being quiet about it.

c) the religious left would certainly have a hard time brandishing Jesus as a weapon against others. That completely goes against what Jesus taught. So of course the religious left isn't going to pick him up by the feet (metaphorically speaking, of course) and start using him like an carnival game rifle. It goes against what a religious liberal BELIEVES.

So after realizing this, I thought "What now?" I have just started attending a UU (Unitarian Universalist) church, which is VERY liberal. It's finally a pleasure to go to church. But what do I, and my fellow religious liberals do now?

Well, we don't start loading up our Jesus AK-47, that's for sure.

But I no longer have a problem with speaking up and speaking out against those who are using Jesus as a baseball bat, those who are using religion as a weapon against others. I've brushed up on the beatitudes. I've started talking, through my church, to others on the religious left. I'm starting local. Thinking big. There are websites such as sojourners.org. There are liberal religious organizations all over the place.

I don't have to violate my beliefs about being humble when it comes to religion, I don't have to pound my chest and be like them in order to fight them, but I CAN fight them. Just on different terms.

I encourage everyone on the left who has any spiritual or religious bent (I actually prefer the term spiritual for myself) to think about these things, to find others like you locally, and start finding ways to stop this. Using religion as a weapon is thought of by the right as foolproof, because, they figure, who's gonna call them on it?

WE CAN.

http://www.cafepress.com/turn_left.14312207

:evilgrin:

Around here, they'd say "yes."

:-(

No, he wouldn't, though. He'd throw those money-changers out of the temples (mega-churches).

Jesus is a liberal.

I'm not even a believer any longer, but dammit, that's my former religion, and it's a good one, and it's being abused.

I must admit to quite a bit of frustration with reasonable Christians over the years for letting the religion being used to spread hate. Thank heaven, Christians are fighting back.

since they've had years to do this. It really is sad and disgusting what they're doing to Christianity and to people who really believe in them as people and think they're doing right. Jesus didn't go around and put his beliefs and teachings into law, Jesus didn't force people to him, Jesus didn't go around pounding his chest saying "look at me! I'm a selfproclaimed Christian!" Jesus didn't go around and tell people how to live their life like these people are doing. These people aren't religious at all. They are abusing Christianity and as a Christian it's disgusting. All these people are is high on power. Nothing more and nothin less. Why else would Falwell have a huge mansion?

As usual :)

You make a lot of sense.

The Sunday after the election, I went to church for the first time (not counting a couple weddings and a couple Jr. High School experiences with friends).
As an adult, I decided I needed spiritual community that day. So I went the local UU church, and it was wonderful. I am sure I will go back again, maybe even on a regular basis at some point.

I think one thing that you left out is that one of the main reasons we are quieter about isn't just humility, but recognizing that our spirituality or religiosity has to remain seperate from politics. I know it isn't that simple, obviously my spirituality is related to my morals is related to my political beliefs, but we do a much better job of separating the two in public.

I think it would be hard to stop doing that...

it. Members of the religious left tend to believe in separation of church and state and members of the relgious right tend to be ok with blending the two, as long as it's THEIR religion getting mixed into the government.

:-(

since the 'Election'...I know of a few others who have just recently started going to UU church, or to the Friends Meeting House. Probably just a coincidence, but it kind of makes sense. Since our 'values' have been attacked so much (even though we know better, it still effects us on some level), maybe we are starting to crave a little more validity in our own understanding of what is Moral and Good...

It certainly can't hurt to get more organized, and just talking about it is making me want to go back to the UU church soon.

Something I just remembered - wasn't there a left-leaning Christian church recently who tried to have an ad on TV showing that all were welcome to attend, but they had a same-sex couple in the ad and a bunch of TV stations refused to air it?! So much for organizing and pooling resources to make a positive statement!

We have so much to fight against, but we have to use it as inspiration to fight harder.


O8)

with the VERY conservative Church of Christ.

And at our UU church, membership has increased by 35% since November.

Interesting, huh?

I do believe there is a connection. I read some article about UU churches all over the US seeing a pretty dramatic rise in membership since the election.

Hey, sounds good to me. At least in a UU church I'm allowed, even encouraged to use my brain and my conscience and not just swallow whatever I'm told.

and all others are heretical. So they have no problem with church-state entanglement as long as their belief is the one approved by the government. It benefits them to no end (or so they think), and it makes their job of proselytizing easier because they can tout their presumed benefits and their are fewer false-religions to trip up the unconverted.

I guess if they truly believe their way is the only way, it translates into defensiveness if anyone sees things a different way. And the religious-left, by definition, is much more tolerant. I don't mind if someone is fundamentalist, as long as they don't try to make other people follow their rules, or judge them for living differently. But then, by definition, their sense of righteousness requires that they DO try to push it on everyone else and make it political.

How can one fight that without BECOMING that?? That seems to be what we have to figure out...

They've got to "win the world for Jesus," and a handful that I know genuinely try to to that. But because their's is the only genuine faith, it's hard for them to accept anyone responding, "thanks, but no thanks," or worse. They can't fathom how anyone would pass up what is in their minds such a sure thing.

And aside from those few that I've seen, most are too busy defending their own fragile belief system, and instead of trying to convert others all they do is criticize and condemn them. (At least they are more likely to leave you alone!) But collectively, the "we're-right-everyone-else-is-going-to-hell" mentality means they are incapable of debate. Their ability to argue is second-to-none, but that's a far cry from a genuine, respectful dialog. So I think the key lies in realizing that we're not fighting them in order to change them or convince them that we are right--just ain't gonna happen! We have to stand up for what is right, not be afraid to articulate our positions, and do it in such a way that engagement of the religious-right is the least of our objectives.

Not sure exactly what that will look like, mind you! But that's the direction I think we need to take.

about seperation of church and state and a lot of people think it's just a myth.

i sincerely hope you have some success because the righties are really giving religion a bad name . . . just as islamic jihadists give islam a bad name.

as i do not believe in a 'supreme being' (well, except for martha stewart, of course), i cannot be of much help but i can certainly appreciate your effort. give 'em h*ll!

ellen fl

:hi:

Martha Stewart, you are cracking me up with that!

http://www.liberalslikechrist.org/index.htm



Here is where they explain their justification for separation of church and state, which is not the same as separation of politics and values.

http://www.liberalslikechrist.org/churchstate/index.htm

is http://www.jesusonthefamily.org I really like them. I haven't read through the whole site yet but what I have read is worth looking at.

from the right..http://www.christiancentury.org/

http://www.jesusonthefamily.org/index.htm

and I've always maintained that UU isn't a Christian Church.

1) It's not trinitarian, it's UNItarian -- meaning no basic belief in the Father/Son/Holy Ghost triparate;

2) I've never known a Unitarian who subscribed to a belief that the Bible was a holy scriptural text--certainly not in the sense of other Christians;

3) UU members tend to look for the common threads that run through all religions, which again isn't Christian

4) I've never known a UUer who professed that "Christ was his/her personal savior;"

5) One can be spiritual and not be religious -- being religious means accepting a certain amount of dogma from a structured religious ideology.

I think being UU is to be more in touch with a sense of wonderment about the greater scheme of things and a strong sense of community with shared ethics and morality. While there are UUers who believe in God/dess in some form, it's not the God from the Bible.

When attempting to justify to a right-winger, ... welfare and government help for the poor, the disabled and the elderly, I saw someone quote the NT passage where Jesus says something like .... "whatever you do to the least of people, you are actually doing it to me". The RWer responded that the bible passage applies to individuals and churches, it does not apply to governments.

office by people. And people MAKE those decisions.

What a cop-out that guy gave.

Jesus, the government was Rome, which was not elected by nor did it represent the Jews. Such that if it really did mean not the government ... that was because there was no government that could give on behalf of individuals. The RWer had also mentioned the "give to Caesar what is Caesar's and give to G-d what is G-d's" thing.

I'm guessing the whole "it means individuals not the government" thing is the current RW party line.

That's one of my favorite quotes and I don't see anything about 'except for' in there at all. Besides, W is an individual and he made the decision to go to war, not the government.

These people have placed the Bible over Christ Himself. Notice they always say "the Bible says" because if they had to quote Jesus, they wouldn't have anything to say.

The Christian left needs to start quoting Jesus. But that's equally difficult because liberal Christians believe in the right for others to worship any God they chooose.

"The vile person shall be no more called liberal, nor the churl said to be bountiful. For the vile person will speak villany, and his heart will work iniquity, to practise hypocrisy, and to utter error against the LORD, to make empty the soul of the hungry, and he will cause the drink of the thirsty to fail. The instruments also of the churl are evil: he deviseth wicked devices to destroy the poor with lying words, even when the needy speaketh right. But the liberal deviseth liberal things; and by liberal things shall he stand." .....

I will repeat that last quote here .... THE LIBERAL DEVISETH LIBERAL THINGS; AND BY LIBERAL THINGS SHALL HE STAND. The right wing has 'Vilified' the name Liberal. And no we are not morally corupt, we are Liberal, as Jesus was, and by LIBERAL THINGS SHALL WE STAND. Pass it on. :)

that one goes in my "ammo" folder :toast:

and Jesus passionately blasted them in his day calling them "a brood of vipers" and comparing them to white tombs -- "pretty and white on the outside but full of death and corruption on the inside."

So the Religious Christian Left, should follow Jesus' lead and blast away at the Religious Christian Right.

I have started going back to church on a regular basis (the UCC). Although I didn't know the church well, there was someone who was a Kerry volunteer there, and she and several others decided it was tine to resurrect the Peace and Justice committee again (hadn't had a meeting since the scary Reagan years!) Now there are suddenly so many issues that matter.

There are about ten of us, we meet once a month, and have planned a worship service and are finding ways to draw the rest of the church into various activities. The response from the congregation and pastors has been very good,and church attendance is up.

Besides the UCC ad, I've seen a lot more evidence that the mainstream Protestant churches are speaking out on things like the President's budget and other issues. It still doesn't get the press coverage it should, but hey, this is right wing America.

So yes, the liberal church is waking up. The commitment to peace and justice has always been there, but its time to turn the volume up... Way up!

but I do wear a cross just about every day. I tell anyone who asks that it is my Christian belief that makes me anti-war. Thou shall not kill means just what it says. There were no addendums to the original documents. The addendums were added later, since I see many politicians in my work I'm sure that all of the later old testament rules that give permission to kill, were just addendums passed by old pols to gain power and whitewash their evil deeds.

Christianity itself contains the seeds of intolerance and bigotry that members of the religious right exploit to reinforce their own individual small-mindedness. This isn't unique to christianity, of course, but that's the religion we're talking about here. If christianity also contains messages antithetical to those espoused by the right, it ultimately won't matter except to the individual christians who choose to focus on the spiritually uplifting parts rather than the messages of hatred and intolerance. Political movements are built largely on anger, fear, hunger, desperation, and so on-- the very sorts of circumstances that also appeal to the messengers of the religious right. They will always be more strident, and they will always have greater appeal to the darker side of human nature. The only real answer to this, IMO, is spirituality that utterly lacks messages of intolerance and hatred, but you know what? I don't think that's possible, because I think the "inspired word of god" is always ultimately a reflection of the human nature that produces it. The bad stuff will always be in there, and the bad stuff will always be used to over rule the good messages.

That isn't to say that there can't be individual communities of leftist christians who do not accept the message of the religious right, but I don't think they will ever produce a broad movement that can over shadow the dark aspects of christianity. After all, christianity has been with us for two millenia, and it's history has been overwhelmingly violent, aggressive, and intolerant-- odd for a faith that lauds the opposite qualities, but an unavoidable consequence of its interaction with human nature, IMO.