I have been thinking about Medical Care the last few days.

The reasons the right gives for not having a single payer system is that medical care would then be "rationed". Well guess what? Medical care is currently rationed. If you are unemployed or are a worker that is not covered by an insurance plan you are effectively rationed out of health care.

Why is it the right is so against a medical plan that would cover everyone? There are Republicans that have no insurance. I know this for a fact...why would they argue against having access to healt care? This system we have is crazy...Would they rather die than have a system in place where everyone is covered? In England you have private and socialized medicine. Their system works remarkably well as does Canada's.

I am appaled that on top of being sick I must also stress over how my bills are going to be paid. I am lucky to have friends such as Will Pitt and others, who have helped me raise part of what I need...but others are not so lucky. I think it is high time we a;; get the same coverage that congress gets. We pay for their medical, dental, vision and salaries a damn good salary at that.

We spend 14 times more than the next highest spender on defense. Why don't we drop that to 13x and provide decent healthcare to everyone? Howcome we can provide healthcare to every Iraqi and not to our own people? Charity begins at home someone once said. Anyway...how do we accomplish this? It should be the highest priority next to voting reform and energy divirsification. Thoughts?

my job to care for my partner fulltime. He's eligible for everything, I am for nothing. And oh, there's no service that can take care of him, so that's our Catch 22. Pretty neat trick, you think?

Off the top of my head, Big Pharma and the insurance mafia. The Bush Cabal has appointed industry lobbyists to be the watchdogs over the very industries they manipulate.

Do you remember Dean said, "The American people pay for universal health care. They just don't get it."

Thoughts your way, Andy.

B.

On edit: Why is it okay for Defense to spend and spend and never to be accountable? I want to know what every illegal bullet cost these b@stards. My momma didn't raise me to be a cash cow.

"The American people pay for universal health care. They just don't get it."

The quote is "We are already paying for universal health care. We just aren't getting it."

Medicine is a for profit endeavor in the US. It isn't in Canada - at least not to the same extent.

Why are our drugs cheaper in Canada? Because there are price controls set by the government. You want to sell this drug in Canada? Sure. Here are the conditions.... You know that the drug companies have to still be making a profit or else they would just say forget it.

We don't have the lawsuits in Canada that you have in the States.

Our political system is not as money dependent as yours is. The parliamentary system has it's shortcomings, but at least it does not lend itself to being controlled by lobbyists.

I've never paid any money to see a doctor. I'm so grateful to live where I live.

mean? Educate me please?

Our elections are 35 days long. You can only spend so much money in 35 days.

Even though we don't vote for PM nationally, the party leaders do travel the country, but we don't have that many major cities.

We have TV advertising, but not to the same extent. Our ads also reach a broader range of people. If you buy an ad in Vancouver, you hit the whole province.

Our party leaders are known quantities. They are already on the national stage - they aren't trying to get name recognition.

We aren't as splashy. Our parties have conventions, but not during the election. They are not as showbiz as your conventions.

Our media does a better job covering issues. During our last federal election, our local TV station had candidates from all the major parties on for lunch-time debates / discussions. (I can't remember if they were from the whole province or just the Lower Mainland.)

deterrent for the four year campaigning that we pay for here.

Light a candle for us. We need it :(

That seems insane to me.

They still go through the process of running, but to no effect.

Politicians need to be worried more about upsetting their constituents than offending their sources of money.

Sometime between the time I couldn't pay attenten because raising my kids and now, my country has gone to hell.

I needn't go down the list for you, I'm sure. My only comfort is, we have family in BC and if needed, if we can't make any difference whatsoever, we're out of here.

This government is criminal and their criminality is being done in our name. There's a good fight here, but it is also rigged.

So, please do light that candle.

Beth

"Sometime between the time I couldn't pay attenten because raising my kids and now, my country has gone to hell."

Unfortunately I've been hyper-aware every bleeping second of it!

On the corruption of politics by money, I've been fond of characterizing it this way: There are two votes in America. The first is the dollar vote, followed by the "democratic" vote. Nothings gets on the agenda of the democratic vote unless it first passes the dollar vote. The problem with this situation is those with more dollars get to vote more often than those without. So our republic is first and foremost about advancing an agenda that serves the interests of the already advantaged. If the needs of the unwashed masses get met it is purely accidental and unintended.

Really
The police try to protect
the banks -- and everything else
is secondary
-- D.A. Levy

OTTAWA - It took months of debate and some last-minute compromises, but Jean Chrétien's bill to radically change political financing easily passed the House of Commons Wednesday.

Bill C-24 limits corporate and union donations to political parties to a maximum of $1,000 and allows them only at the riding association level, not directly to federal parties.

The bill also places a $5,000 limit on individual donations.

As a compromise, Chrétien amended the bill last week to boost the amount each party will receive from public coffers. The subsidy from taxpayers works out to $1.75 for every vote a party received in the previous election, up from $1.50.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2003/06/11/financing030611.html

Recent attempt to limit special interest groups.

and you actually think they would go for a not for profit system????

Drug companies, Doctors, nurses, and most other treatment facilities want to be free to make as much $$ as they can. Under most national health systems, there is a rate structure, so to make more you have to work more, see more patients.

I think a universal system would be great for Americans, but I can't blame the folks in the business for wanting to keep the status quo.

just not obscene profit.

There are several factors that make drug prices lower in Canada than in the U.S.

Perhaps the most obvious is the exchange rate. For the last few years the Canadian dollar has hovered between 60 and 70 cents, giving Americans more bang for their greenback.

Another reason is the fact that Canadian drug companies are not allowed to market their products directly to consumers. That's a substantial savings not realized south of the border, where so-called direct-to-consumer marketing has been allowed since 1997. According to the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America, drug companies spent almost $3 billion on direct-to-consumer advertising – a price that gets passed on to the consumer.

But the biggest reason for the price disparity is the existence of drug price controls in Canada. The Patented Medicine Prices Review Board, a quasi-judicial body of the government created in 1987, reviews pharmaceutical prices and enacts caps for patented drugs and medicines prices.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/drugs/

A bit of background on the 1987 legislation. The patents on drugs used to run out somewhere around 15 years. As a result generics were allowed on the market much sooner. So the government upped the patent length for the drug companies and then upped them again to the same length as in the US but with the caveat that prices would be regulated as a function of costs. I believe research money spent in Canada also factored into the equation.

I would think that a first step in reducing US drug costs would be to reduce the length of patents and open the market up sooner to generics. But it is kinda hard to even visualize that when the drug industry is such a powerful influence on politics.

If your government was looking out for the people, setting a fair price would be tied to getting drugs approved by the FDA.

Have a fair price, or you can't sell in the US. Your politicians need more balls. (And less conflict of interest.)

It's shameful that in the so-called richest country on the planet, 45 million of us have to a) beg for health care to be delivered and b) go into financial ruin after it is. People don't really think about this issue until they wake up one day and realize they'll need a wad of hundred dollar bills in their pocket just to get basic treatment. Health care, like education, should be a right and not a privilege. This country has it all wrong. Whether you live or die shouldn't depend on whether you can afford health insurance or happen to be related to Bill Gates.

remember how we as a nation had to learn to be compassionate under Herbert Hoover, we are learning that all over again as a people, this whole rotting mess is just going to burst open soon, and the people will stand up, lets have more money for people and less for these insane adventurous wars, and tools of war, high tech lethal toys, we would be more powerful if we help feed 10 hungry kids than killing a hundred men. I just read that there is a scandal how the US squandered UN funds, then covered it up with Iraqi oil money. They are asking for investigation into other US/UN collaborations in Iraq. I hope that all those who have swallowed up money like pythons have to pay back every cent to the American people and the Iraqi people and the UN.

for an Embassy in Iraq, yet people here in the good ole us of a have no health care coverage!!! The rePukes do nothing but WASTE money over, and over, and over again and the amurikan people just don't get it, do they??


:grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr:

infotainment...Jackson, Peterson etc...They have their priorities straight.

this afternoon when the Blake verdict came in - the TV volume was turned up to hear that - then when not guilty came in and all the hoopla was over, they turned the TV down - no one cared about any thing else!!! What is wrong with us?? I truly don't understand!!

The American people are either stupid, nuts, or just don't care.

I just listened to some republican senator lying about the state of our economy and the budget with a straight face. It was rather surreal. A steady stream of neverending lies.

it is a regional hospital in a semi-rural area with a fast-growing population about 45 miles NW of Chicago -- the hospital is stretched to the limits because of all the new people moving into the area.

Two or three times a week, some big pharmaceutical company or other brings in a lavish lunch to feed the ER staff. According to my friend, the amount of food (enough to feed 75 or more every time) has to cost close to $1,000. Now, this is just one smallish hospital in a region with many large hospitals. Multiply that by similar lunches being brought in to hospitals across the country every week and this adds up to big bucks for big pharma.

Now, couldn't that money be better spent providing less costly prescription medicines? Consumers are paying for these damn lunches.

My friend may eat the food (working in an ER is damn hectic and stressful) but the waste of money pisses her off. She is a strong believer in the single payer system, although not a healthcare professional herself.

of multi-practice physician's offices throughout the town, and some of our clinics get huge free lunches for the whole staff two or three times a week, brought in by the drug reps!! That doesn't even count the free pens, the free cups, etc, etc, etc!!

It' not scary until something goes wrong or you know something is wrong and you simply don't do anything for fear of being rejected or mistreated or hounded for years for medical debt. There is nothing scarier than discovering you may have leukemia or some form of cancer,...and lose health coverage.

With respect to the Republican mindset, it seems to me that they are convinced that the privilege of being an American is to never, ever get something for "nothing", even if you've been a model citizen who has worked hard to contribute to your nation. If your contribution does not pay enough to "earn" adequate health care,...well, that's life and shit happens and God will exact "justice" and/or "liberty" depending upon how strong your faith is in the Almighty.

I have had some conversations with my Republican neighbors and acquaintences, however, that has seemed to somewhat bend their rigid thinking. For example,...I tell them that, our country has decided it is cruel and unusual punishment to fail to provide adequate health care to prisoners. Then, I ask, "if it's cruel and unusual for prisoners to receive health care, isn't it more cruel and more inhumane to deny someone like me adequate health care"?

Usually, their response will be the auto-select "we don't want 'socialized' medicine"! I inform them that the health insurance industry is just like a 'socialized' medicine except they suck us for every penny/dime/nickel they can get out of us. I ask, "why not require the government to protect our health,...isn't that what it's supposed to do,...protect the welfare of its citizens."?

Thankfully, most of the local Republican folks I talk to don't get nasty with me.

Nazis said:

"We don't want 'socialized' medicine".

Fine. Perhaps you should ask your nazi acquaintances when they'll be protesting our socialized police force, our socialized schools, our socialized roads, & our socialized military (payment for all of which comes out of our taxes, as single-payer healthcare could).

This is one cause I've been meaning to look into more. Are there any groups-grassroots or otherwise working to create momentum on this issue?

Good post.

But there should be.

some kind of universal health care passed at the state level. Of course it can't be as good as a federal program, but it's seen as a start and a foot in the door approach for a nationwide system, if we go state by state at first.

Basic Health for unemployed people and the rate is cheap...but the waiting list is long and it does not cover preexisting conditions.

the momentum would be irresistible. 'Course big pharma and the HMOs would fight it like crazy--it'd need something of a "stealth" approach to get started at all.

Even though these measures are passing in the legislature, he's refusing to sign them. I wish we could find out how he cheated on the recall election so we can dump him and get a real Governor into office.

Tommy Douglas introduced it in Saskatchewan when he was Premier. Eventually, it went national.

Tommy Douglas was just voted the greatest Canadian in the fall.

http://www.pnhp.org/

Health Care for All--Washington

info@healthcareforallwa.org

As a health care policy researcher…your insights are almost total correct. America has the worst care and the highest cost. The medical community is only concerned with the bottom line. Medical care kills at a minimum 80,000 Americans per year due to error…that is approximately 30 times more than were killed in the two towers….Yet we do nothing. If we spent even a part of what was spent in Iraq, we might save 40,000. A single life is unvalued in today’s medical system. A doc loses someone due to error, hell he just makes sure his ass is covered and goes to the country club.

a health care plan like Canada's in place in this country. A big part of the problem are the for profit Insurers, HMOs and pharma companies, who hire PR firms to spread disinformation about this subject. When you go dig out the truth, like ask a Canadian how his system works, you find that all the objections are nothing more than propaganda.

I fear the only way we will ever get a NHC system here is that we are going to have to starve the above mentioned health businesses so that they stop lookin at health care as a cash cow, insuring only the young and healthy at the expense of those who actually need health care.

problems in America and what can be done to cure them:

http://www.pnhp.org

ordinary republicans vote with the gop leaders, because their peons want the racism GOP delivers.

racism they think, will solve all problems. "get those damn ethnics out of the health system,and it will work just fine again" they think.

They twist logic to blame everything on the ethnics.. so it follows that kicking the ethnics around will solve all problems. Even with folks like Enron running things.

"its the damn ethnics that are to blame for all that is wrong, not the hardworking tycoons"--says joe redneck.

is to pay them a max of the avg joe 's income.. fifty K/year.

the doctor field is now overrun with greedheads who oppose national free healthcare.

boot them out.

No measure less than "average income" will do it. And average wage WILL do it. The greedy ones will change college majors over into

payday loan studies

loan shark studies

sellusyourfurnitureandthenrentitback studies

predatory mortgage studies

sellusedasnewinretailstoreslikesearsdidwithbatteriesinflorida studies

LOL.

After that many years in school and residency, as well as the responsibility and hours, it's worth more than an average salary.

It's not really the doctors IMO, it's the fucking insurance companies who charge outrageous premiums, refuse to pay illegally, all so they can have CEOs making 20 mill per year. Doctors make peanuts compared to that.

I think the people who are actively against universal healthcare are few in number, actively "manufacture consent" (in this and a number of other areas), and are glad to use health insurances as a billy club to help preserve their ability to appropriate value.

As long as our insurance is tied to our job, our protests for higher wages, better working conditions, shorter hours, etc., is somewhat muted. The spector of the uninsured without easy access to care, especially now that debts incurred will be more difficult to avoid (the bankruptcy bill), quiets the rebellious spirit of many.

At least that is how our "masters" see it: Just another bullet in the guns of the owning class...

The great many who consent to our current system do so because of the fear and hysteria about "socialized" medicine stirred up by the oligarchy, or have long ago passively ceded all participation in the decisions made for our society so that now they aren't even aware that they have options.

1) Shall receive a salary from the government that is ? times the minimum wage.

2) Shall receive medical insurance coverage from the government that is greater than any citizen's coverage that they represent.

3) Shall receive a pension from the government that is greater than any citizen's pension that they represent.

Please feel free to add to an Amendment that would be designed to force the politicians to start representing the People again.

how their own medical coverage works and that's it. To fix the problem, people will have to consider other people and then LEARN how their medical care is covered or not covered.

You are so right that there is rationing now. Where I live the Lutheran Church opened a free health clinic one day a week. They had to increase it to two days a week. The doctor is stunned at the number of people who are using it and the bad shape they are in when they get there. They have advanced illnesses and intractible chronic illnesses such as diabetes and high blood pressure.

They initially opened it to serve Medicare recipients because doctors in the area refused to take any more patients with Medicare. What they found out is that the people most in need are in their 20's. 30's, 40's and 50's - people who don't have insurance. Doctors will not even see people without insurance here, imagine that is pretty universal though.

Doctors do not know that people are going without care. They tell their receptionists to screen callers and spend their day with the patients with insurance. They don't have a clue - especially the specialists.
I have Basic Health (for the time being) and all but a couple doctors will take people with Basic Health.