I am no longer of child bearing age. I have enough money. Why should

I still care if the rest of american goes to hell in a hand basket?

I get that way a lot- Partner also.The Pukes have a way of stirring me up every time. however.

society. Why should I still care?

Just a guess.

Often, I feel that is where I have gone wrong in my life. Look around you, no one is better off because of this.

they will perform a great outrage, that will have you in a lather to pull off a republican face. Relax, you care too much like me. It's in my blood, a thankless job can be trying. I suggest a visit to Costa Rica and enjoy a civilized country where murkins are still welcome. Take two weeks, visit the thermals, eat rice and beans- pura vida. You will be ready agaon.

Even if it's for only a moment. Sometimes the effects are long lasting or life changing. I have had such people in my life, whom I will always respect for their generosity. (I don't mean monetarily either).

Our behaviors Do affect others, for good or bad.

What an incredibly narcissistic position to take.

To feel that you have not had any positive effect on anyone in the world must feel so empty.

To that I would suggest to go do some volunteer work with the poor or elderly.

Of course, we don't have the power on our own to "change the world" but we do have the power to bring a bit of goodness into the world.

I've been wondering the same thing. Just buy gold and a gun:hippie:

And bike tires.

self containment with little or no effort. The problem is that I still think that society can get better and that I am a person who needs to help it along. Self delusion or what?

self containment with little or no effort. The problem is that I still think that society can get better and that I am a person who needs to help it along. Self delusion or what?

I do not like the noise they make or what they do. gold is nice but I like things that grow and that I can eat.

You can buy essentials in a broken society. With a gun, you can protect yourself and your family in said society. I recommend an AK.

Edit I think I should say that I was only partly joking, we did but we do still care even though we are in the same situation.

It seems we get more bad news every day about the future of our country. Those of us who have no children, therefore no stake in the future, shouldn't give a rat's ass.

You sound like a Republican. "I got mine, why should I care?"

Don't you realize how bad that sounds?

I was just trying to comment on how our country is going to hell, with * leading the charge. When push comes to shove, damn right I'm gonna protect my home and family.

Got it.

:)

To taunt those of us who do have a stake?

solution?

Never give up!

Look, I get down just like anyone. If there's a single solution, somebody smarter than the rest of us would have figured it out by now.

Keep going.

Get up tomorrow and do one small thing, be it writing a letter to the editor or planning to march on March 19 wherever you are.

:)

this were the 60's. Where's the passion we had then? We got together and finally achieved the goal. Also, where is the music protesting *'s bullshit?

but you have to remember back then we had a war and a DRAFT, therein lies most of the difference. It's hard to get the passion up against a war when the warriors all volunteered! As for the rest of the crap -- at our age, we've seen it repeat and repeat, and like all on the other side of 50, there's wisdom in just knowing the pendulum will swing, sooner or later, and understanding that the countdown is on, so it is time to enjoy the fruits of the labor.

Go volunteer at a homeless shelter or your local Dem party HQ or any other social activist group.

Give back a little.

got tired of explaining to young people about soc sec, etc. Ya just got to take a break every once in a while and be content is mumbling "told ya so." I just retired last year and am in a good financial position, so to Hell with em.

My husband and I are approaching retirement age and we are NOT financially comfortable. There are a lot of folks on DU, young and old, who are suffering under this administration.

I'm so fing glad some folks are doing so well that they don't give a rat's fucking ass about the rest of us. Never mind that they got where they are on the surplus labor of others.

If they don't care, the fucking least they could do is STFU and go gloat . ... . . . somewhere else, because I'm not going to try to persuade them to get either a clue or a heart.



Tansy Gold, prepared to be deleted

You make a very good point. Those of us who are lucky enough to be secure sometimes get complacent. BTW, my situation wasn't made on the labor of others. It was by luck of having elderly parents with valuble land. When the deal goes through, I plan to share with progressive organizations, after I take care of my family.

"BTW, my situation wasn't made on the labor of others. It was by luck of having elderly parents with valuble land"

It wasn't made on the labor of others? Who worked to buy that land? LOL! ;) SOMEBODY down the line did and someone worked to pay the taxes on it, right?

everyone is suffering under this administration -- everyone -- just some more than others. Those who are trying to prepare for their retirements saw a huge hit on their portfolios; we are all paying for high gas, in the car and heating the home. If we haven't lost a job or gone bankrupt,someone we care deeply about has.

You seem to believe that anyone who is financially comfortable made it on the backs of others -- I know very few democrats which would fit that mold. The ones I know who are comfortable did it by making sound life choices, delaying gratification, working hard, being smart with their money, and being fortunate enough to not be born with a dire physical or mental handicap. They are democrats because they do care about others, and are generous of spirit.

I grew up in a poor family, so I learned that if you have a roof over your head, food on the table, and love -- you have EVERYTHING you need for happiness, and thus, no reason to feel sorry for yourself. When we would get to feeling sorry for OURSELVES, my mom would take us for a drive through the local mental retardation institution grounds or the poorer side of town and then ask us,"Got something to feel sorry about, now?" There will ALWAYS be those who have more, and those who have less -- be grateful you are not among those who have even less.

:kick:

Going without the basics is very different than cutting back on vacations or seeing a loss on your portfolio.

There are many people in this world that did everything right, worked just as hard and end up with way less than others. Don't tell me a laborer doesn't work as hard as a white collar professional who had their ass wiped their whole lives, access to open doors to college and job opportunties.

Many people face barriers to such opportunity: racism, sexism, classism, homophobia or some sort of life catastrophe, like job loss or medical emergency.

I'm so sick of the BS line, that white upper income people are more worthy, smarter, and harder working than the rest. Bull fucking shit. I grew up upper class and now have a lower upper class income and I am no more deserving or harder working than the the black person that makes minimum wage. Or the white blue collar worker who was laid off.

This is the problem, people refuse to admit their privileges over others and acknowledge our classist, racist system.

I was beginning to think I was the only one.

And to the poster who said there are few democrats living off the surplus labor of others, I think I'd have to disagree. John Kerry, anyone? Herb Kohl? Mark Dayton? Bill Clinton, charging big bucks just to show up and talk? Jim Pederson, state party chair in AZ who made millions as a developer?

What about our "liberal" Bill Gates and Warren Buffet and George Soros? What about the daily "stock market" thread here on DU?

I really loved the post on another thread a couple days ago from the DUer justifying his/her ownership of a large SUV because they needed it to pull the sailboat! ohmyfarkingawd, heaven forbid we shouldn't have enough hp to haul the yacht!

While another reading of this thread suggests to me that the OP really meant "Why do I care" (as in, I already care, but I don't know why and sometimes wish I didn't) rather than "Why should I care?" (as in, I don't care and don't know why I ought to), I still believe the class distinctions are very clear and have not yet been addressed by the left in this country. Certainly the DLC isn't going to, and I have my doubts about the DNC even under Dean.

And the amazing thing is that there is so much of the class struggle at the root of the problems facing us all yet so many of us absofuckinglutely refuse to look at it. The snarling pit bull in the parlor, but we must have our tea.

but where does this classist angst come from? I truly don't get it -- is it just the philosophical capitalist vs communist or socialist ideology? Is it jealousy? What is it? Isn't it all relative? To the person making 12,000, 50,000 is a lot of money -- to the 50,000 a year person, 100,000 is a lot of money -- what's the deal? I have long advocated the end to the business deductibility of a CEO salary over X percentage of the average employee's salary, but I recognize that with greater responsibility, comes a larger salary. I respect the entrepreneur who builds an industry which brings virtually thousands of jobs as having earned his/her income -- s/he had the vision, and took the risk. Does Bill Clinton's ability to command a large speaker fee come from someone else's work, or his own (volunteering to get him elected not withstanding)? Do you not recognize that Soros has given over 500 million to philanthropic causes, including our own? Where do you think the money comes from to fight Bush and company if not from wealthier democrats, or are you just an anarchist, and not really concerned with the democratic party?

When supposed Democrats refuse to address the inequities. As many get pushed out of the middle class, they may change their views a bit on this. And it WILL happen. More and more are seeing a decrease in income and will be outsourced.

The lack of insight and compassion I see here by a few, never ceases to amaze me.

lack of knowledge.

Apparently some people don't understand that the $500 million Soros may have given to democratic/liberal causes actually came from someone else's labor.

Oh, fuck. It's late. I can't educate them all.


Tansy Gold, who had no hoity toities in her family either.

labor who bought the land, platted it, got it through zoning, sold it to the homeowner -- you can't see the circle? Did Soros just grab the money from the sky? Or did he do something to make it -- like trade commodities? (not withstanding the law suit which I don't know much about) This is chicken and egg stuff --

I read it in fourth or fifth grade. It didn't make a whole lot of sense then. It makes a whole lot of sense now.

A developer's "work" is not "work." It "creates" nothing. It facilitates the construction of a development, but it makes absolutely nothing (except wasted paper).

The U.S. public school system for the past century has refused to teach marxist economic theory in favor of teaching ONLY capitalist economic theory. Therefore, unless one takes it upon oneself (either in voluntary post-secondary education or on one's own) to learn what non-capitalist economists actually wrote and said, one will have no fing idea what "marxism," "socialism," or "communism" really mean, or even the terms that are bandied about within those theories.

Most people here on DU have no real concept of how consumer capitalism works just like a Ponzi scheme, where you have to keep bringing in more buyers/workers/consumers/suckers on the bottom to keep the few on the top in gravy. Most people here on DU don't even understand that "communism" is an economic system, not a political system. I'm not calling any individual ignorant here, but I am saying that the American public education system -- and the cultural system that has brainwashed so many of us into thinking this is "the greatest nation on earth" -- has failed us and served the aristocracy.

While many of the founders may have not believed in an aristocracy based on bloodlines, they seemed to have no problem with one based on wealth. Remember that originally only white male property owners were allowed the privilege of voting. Many religious groups upheld legal slavery -- indeed, some seem to do so to this day. Women have only had the vote for less than 100 years, and but for a southern lawmaker's off-hand racist, sexist remarks defending the sanctified privilege of white womanhood against the encroachment of "rights" for African Americans, we'd still have poll taxes and literacy tests and "Help Wanted - Female" ads in the newspapers.

There is still institutionalized classism in this country, and those who don't understand it are probably destined to be its victims. Those who understand it and deny it, are probably the victimizers.

Isn't life wonderful -- that a Congressman by the name of Smith could do so much good operating from a base of hatred? There is hope.

I had a feeling we weren't seeing work (labor) with the same eyes. I see the developer, along with many other people, from bankers to accountants to heavy equipment operators to carpenters to municipal workers bringing in electricity as having created a housing community out of vacant land. I see all of them as having worked on a finished product -- all integral. With your eyes, so-called traditional women's work, cooking, cleaning, laundry, caretaking, wouldn't be work because it does not create anything, either.

My generation saw some of its numbers "dropping out" and forming communes (if you are close to retirement, we are in the same generation) -- I don't know of any which exist today, although there may be a couple -- has it ever worked for a sustained period of time on a large scale (I don't consider a kibbutz large scale)in the last several hundreds of years?

Sorros gave a great interview about just this topic. The article alluded to how without a deeply classist system, he would not have made his fortune. (And he wasn't comparing socialism).

When CEOs are making 20 million, plus untaxed bonuses, off the backs of their employees, many of whom do not even make a living wage and minimum wage is nearly poverty level, we are long over due for some major changes. Furthermore, the lack of regulations on corps allow them to rape the system for their short term gain.

Just the fact there are 35 MILLION people in poverty in our wealthy nation SHOULD be a wake up call. That is shameful. Having worked with many disadvantaged families over the years, as well as read quite a lot of research on poverty, I can say with confidence, it is NOT generally because these people "don't manage their money well or make bad choices." There are systemic causes for this social ill.

45 MILLION people without healthcare in this country and capital gains were cut and inheritance taxes are going to be eliminated. WHAT does that say?

I may be the sailboat-hauling-SUV-owning-poster you are referring to. Our 22' Interlake was purchased (used) four years ago for $3,200--hardly a yacht. We live only seven miles from the river where we sail and are lucky, given sailing conditions and time constraints, to get out 10-12 times per year. Yet it is our primary source of recreation and primary topic of conversation for six months out of the year. It also takes the place of the annual "sailing vacation" we took prior to purchasing the boat. The vacations were more costly in terms of energy consumption as well as finances.

We also use the SUV for hauling home renovation materials. We thought rehabbing an older home closer to the city locale where my husband works would be better for our finances and the environment than purchasing a McMansion in the outer-edge-sprawl (our dogs make city-dwelling impractical, as does my husband's almost phobia-like need for space and solitude following a day in the trenches).

Most of our driving is done with a 1997 Dodge Neon, I would be surprised if we put 1500 miles on the jeep last year.

The devil truly is in the details.

I think you learn that at about 10. "White collar professionals who had their ass wiped their whole lives," -- what can one say to another who is so seething with hate, not to mention overstatement. Many people do face barriers and OVERCOME them -- how would any of us ever have made it out of poverty, otherwise? Everyone has access to college -- everyone has that open door. And they have a lot more access today (Pell Grants, for example), than they did in my day. Deserving? It is NOT about deserving -- it's about making your choices and living with the results, no excuses, no regrets. Yes, catastrophes happen, but those are a subset of the norm, and a separate discussion (I said if you are fortunate to be born without a dire physical or mental handicap -- or have one befall you, I'll add).

My best guess is that you are railing against an attitude you saw in your family which was hoity toity -- good for you -- it was probably pretty disgusting. I've seen it in a wealthy in-law who inherited a company, but their attitude should not make you think that one isn't entitled to the fruit of their labor, their decisions, their life choices, without regret or excuses to those who made different ones.

If you choose to stick your head in the sand and deny that classism, racism, sexism, and homophobia exist, that's your fucking problem. But don't start making personal judgments on my character, who the fuck are you to do that?

My family was not "hoity toity" in fact my father does more community service work than MOST people, even at his age of 72. And I have not inherited a penny.

Ridiculous assumptions! It's more likely that I would be like YOU if my parents were "hoity toity;" in total denial about the reality of our society.

Please, go do some volunteer work with some underprivileged families and educate yourself on oppression. It's NOT soley about choices. What a narrow mindset. Pathetic.

you grew up in an upper class family, and since I said it was my GUESS that you were responding to a common attitude in upper class families, I did not impugn your character. Since I did not grow up in an upper class family -- I previously stated I grew up in a poor family -- I don't have to do work with the underprivileged -- I was one. I started life there -- I didn't have to learn about it later. Just in case I hadn't seen enough of the poverty up close and personal growing up, I spent a stint in the south as a social worker.

No, it's NOT solely about choices -- I think I made that quite clear -- but evidently you didn't catch it through the rant. Perhaps I am less likely to see the barriers because I remember when they really were a formidable challenge -- they pale now in comparison --like before, during, and after the 1964 Civil Rights Act. Did you make the poor people's march in Washington -- 1st or 2nd? Organize any of the busses for ERA marches? Testify at any legislative hearings? Key note labor rallies, walk picket lines, draft legislation? Put your career and life on the line for those who have been oppressed, down trodden, and abused? I have, so maybe you could guess that some of us older folks here might have actually been at this advocacy thing long before your consciousness was raised? We've taken it this far; learn to control your hatred, and you might take it even further.

This "I got mine, why should I give a rat's ass about anyone else" attitude is sickening even if not totally sincere.

Not all people are in your position. If you don't have to work, you can still volunteer! ;)

LOTS of good causes out there to choose from.

It gets to us all sometimes.

I'll be in the basement riding it out with a couple of cases of chili and a shotgun.

Let em starve. FUCK those dying people in Iraq. LET THEM BE SLAUGHTERED!

I took mine from the world and I'm not giving back.

assumption the folks around here know that my problem is not less caring but too much. My problem is too much caring and I would so much like to take a break from that, especially in bush's america. The problem is that I can't.

I see now we are actually in agreement!

I feel like that some days. I look at people I work with who know nothing, who don't like the news or politics, who say everything will just work out, and I wish for just a little bit I could be like them. I never can. Bugs me sometimes.

My mom stopped listening to the news about 15 years or so before she died. She said she just couldn't take it anymore -- all the horrible things happening in the world -- she cared too much. First, you must take care of your own emotional needs. Did you ever read Richard Bach's, Illusions,the adventures of a reluctant messiah? It presents the question: What if the whole purpose of life is just to be happy? I think of that a lot -- but I am happy speaking out, trying to affect change on a small scale by getting people to look at what is happening. I feel more and more isolated because so few of the people I know -- even good democrats -- can discuss current affairs (Gannon/Guckert? I don't know anything about that), let alone issues. I am bored silly by those who are just into their little lives. My guess is that you can't stop because at some level you really enjoy knowing what's up and spreading the word. Don't look for a way to stop -- just a way to take a break.

I'm concerned about what another 3 trillion on the deficit will do to my generation -- the next generation will have to take care of itself -- but I'll continue to fight for what I think is best for my country and my generation.

PHEW! I was beginning to really worry.

to take it from the abstract to the personal? Instead of working just for the big macro picture (ie movements, orgs, etc) it might energize your spirit if you can take it down to the personal - one on one kind of activism. Keep an eye open for someone who is obviously making a pained choice between foodstocks at the market (preferably a low end one, lots of opportunities there to fill up a few grocery bags & just walk up & ask permission WHILE putting them in their car). That kind of personal can recharge your soul if it's getting depleted by fighting battles w/a goal line too far in the distance to see. An occasional foray into the personal is good for everyone, even as they fight the bigger battles. After all, the personal is the ultimate recipient of all the wars we are taking to heart, now.

I don't think I'm putting this well. I do better w/examples. I don't have much, probably never will. The purest, most touching act of kindness that I have ever experienced was something that has come back & enriched me many times over! I was 25 yrs old, with a 10 yr old daughter & a newborn baby girl. I had given up my waitressing job to have this baby, tried for many years to conceive this child & was blissfully happy to have her & her sister. But. This did involve knowingly accepting that it was going to take a few years to get back to a halfway comfortable lifestyle. No prob, I was more than happy - I had my little family. When I found out that my flu was indeed not the flu, but rather a little 'baby democrat', I promptly downsized everything - sold the car for the obstetrician, moved to a cheaper apt, stared doing laundry by hand, etc. She was born healthy, all was good - but it was REALLY tight. Christmas comes, my 10 yr old is disappointed - no tree this year, simple gifts. We make do. We make a paper tree, color it in together, tack it to the living room wall, get it all trick & pretty. She is cool @ it, she understands it's for the family. Christmas morning my doorbell rings, open it - no ones there. But there stands a 6ft tree & a half dozen boxes filled w/foodstuffs for Xmas dinner (& then some!) & little presents for my girls. I look out the door in time to see a door down the walkway hurriedly shutting & someone furtively peeking out the window. I knocked on the door & asked the women (I had never really met, just seen around the building) why would you do this? She said 'Because you would never ask. I've watched you & your girls, & I wanted to do it because you hang laundry on the bushes while you laugh & play w/your kids. You are happy w/out having anything - I wanted to make your family just a little happier today.' When I started crying & tried to thank her she stopped me & said the only thanks she wanted was that I pass it on when things got better! I do that, every chance I get. If I see a pregnant girl walking down the street in winter, I not only offer a ride - I leave her my coat, & tell her pass it on when things get better. If I see a senior trying to pick out things from their shopping cart at the market, I drop a bag or two in it outside in the lot. Pass it on when you can. When you see a small need, try to help fill it. That neighbor 25 yrs ago had no clue the impact she made (not only on me - my kids also have taken this on), but she has been responsible for so much happiness in our lives. It's not thank yous, you say pass it on & walk away from those - it's knowing how warm one person can make someone on the edge of life feel. Even if it's for a few hours or meals. I still try to fight the big battles, but without the personal ... the big ones aren't quite worth fighting as much. Maybe you need to vacation, even for a few hours or days, from the big ones - & take it to the small ones, to the personal. If only to remind yourself why it's so important to never give up?

on edit: Man, I hope I haven't made a fool of myself here. I know this is kind of touchy-feely for some, they can ignore it. But sometimes, you have to get personal to get through. The best sig line I've seen on DU - just 'don't give up'! People need all of us - on the macro & personal. Find a way to recharge, don't let yourself burn out - any way that works!

Thanks so much for sharing all of this, and taking the time to do so. In some ways I have felt like the OP - too many battles to fight, too many people voting against their own interests - hey, if they don't care, why should I? But I, like the OP, DO care. It's just too overwhelming to address everything all the time.

Your post gave me a chance to step back and remembr that I "can't fix the whole world, but I can try to fix my little part of it". I needed that and seem to have found a spark of hope from your post where little has existed since November.

Thank you.

Caring so much about the way things are going is painful, and it makes you want to stop caring. But you're right -- instead of focusing on the big and increasingly bleak picture, we ought to look around us and see what we CAN do.

Think I might take a break from the big picture for a while...get reengergized...

you are a wise woman in many ways -- sometimes it takes the personal to make the big fight worth the candle. Thanks for the reminder.

Everyone, even Bush (shhh) will be dead in a 100 years.

But that didn't answer your question.


Cliche's- I swear by them

this too shall pass

Get some George Harrison, man. It's a short trip. (I just love saying man and sounding all groovy)

i am the total opposite! I have 4 childeren, i had thought i was going to stop at 3, especially since i am no spring chicken anymore and my other 3 are 20-18-8. But foolish ass me has a damn baby at my age after having my good job outsourced and now work at a $12,500 a yr gig. Hahahaha, i mean jeebus my oldest is fixing to have a child, and me a new daddy.....hehehehe.

I am overly optomistic maybe.

I don't know.

I know I have to care. I have a ten year old daughter and I care about her future and the future of her children, should she have them.

:shrug:

Become a Big Brother or Big Sister (sorry, I don't know your gender) to a kid who needs someone in their life. Then maybe you can care again?

:shrug:

And are a thinking being who understands things such as the difficulty of a single working mother making minimum wage as well as other built in inequities in our system. UNLIKE a few who refuse to step out of themselves long enough to gain any real perspective.

I would post to you the wonderful letter I got from a family that I helped sponsored last Christmas. Young mother who lives with her mother and 2 young children. They were all so excited and they never received so many Christmas gifts before. My daughter and I thought we should do something for someone else and I wasn't expecting a lovely note.

I think my daughter and I only chipped in 75 bucks each.

Try it sometime. It helps the heart.

seriously, I wonder the same thing myself sometimes.

I have no children and at 62 probably never will. I do have nieces and nephews and I do have concerns for them but I come back to the immutable fact that nothing is forever...the entire universe will at some point either expand into maximum entropy and die or will collapse back onto itself and crunch every atom and quark into a singularity. So there really isn't any point worrying about anything, really. Everyone who's alive will be dead, and everyone who ever gets born will be dead too, so as Freddy Mercury said, nothing really matters. And it's true, nothing really matters.

HERE AND NOW do matter to a child who is going hungry or a soldier who has his body blown to bits.

I HOPE you are being sarcastic. ;)

you got yours. proof that god has blessed your life. if other people suffer they probably deserve it.

Have a Blessed day! :hi:

Nothing else to see here folks, move along...

Great quotation by someone named "Anonymous."

You cannot bear the weight of the world, but you can help to share the burden just by being there and making a small attempt. Someone needs to act as a counterweight to the immense drag caused by bush and his ilk.

Words, words, words. Enough of words. I think you need a hug. :hug:

wondrous thing.

and all the time I tell myself...'who the hell cares' BUT no matter what I still do care. I wish I could not care but...I do.

You wouldn't be here on DU if you didn't have it and its impossible to ignore for long.

and you love our country and want to return it to its rightful place, Which is someone for the rest of the world to take confort in.
Me thinks.

It's activist fatigue. We're trying to save Social Security for the next generation. We're trying to preserve Roe vs. Wade. We're trying to defend the freedom of the press. Yet the younger generation doesn't seem to care, they don't remember how many women died prior to Roe v. Wade, and young women don't even appreciate that they DO have equal rights. And a survey of high school kids show the majority of them feel it's okay for the government to vet all news articles!

There are times i want to say, to hell with the next generation. They don't care about their own futures -- why should I?

But there ARE concerned kids out there (my sons being two of them) so I can't just give up.

Wait till those medical bills start piling in. Ready for 6 years in a nursing home at 100 bucks a day?

One of the bottom-line characteristics of Republicans
is the thought that "I;ll get mine and everyone else can just take care of themselves"

this is a major, major dividing line between conservatives and liberals...........

anyone who classifies themselves as a liberal would necessarily be thinking of the welfare of others ( as well as taking care of their own)

THATS why
unless of course, you ARE a republican, which would explain your question