If Terry Schiavo is in a vegatative state does she care she is 'alive'?

If she is not in pain, why should she die - can she really care? Is she suffering, and what is suffering if you don't have the mind to suffer?

Not taking sides with this question, just wondering from a philosophical view. (and yes, I have taken sides, but this question is more aimed at a deeper level of thought).

she selected Michael Schiavo as her representative to make such decisions for her in the event that she could not.

Does it matter if this was her wish, because if she cannot think - can she really suffer? And if she cannot suffer, why all the fuss either way?

ourselves that extend even to the point Terri is now at.

I think our right to self determine matters.

At a secondary level, her husband has the right and the obligation to carry this out. And I think that matters as well.

but still in the middle, I presume

does it matter to her if she lives or dies now - if she is not mentally functioning, then she has no idea anyway. So in a sense she got her wish, she is not suffering because she does not have the capacity to.

In that sense she has died already - there is no Terri. If she stated that if she was ever this way and did not want kept alive, then was (is) that because she did not want to suffer (which she is not if she cannot feel and understand).

I guess it all goes to the philosophical/spiritual thing - what is the mind, and what is the body, and if keeping her body alive does not affect her mentally, what difference (in a philosophical way) does it make really?

A living plant in dirt with roots actually moves around responding to the stimulus in its environment. Roots reach for water. It grows. Flowers visibly follow the sun around facing it unless they prefer shade. When a plant is plucked for its flowers or for food, it can be preserved in a vase of water for awhile and may even function to a certain level opening blooms, or it could be kept in your refrigerator, which prolongs its freshness but it is no longer a living thing.

I believe the same thing has happened to someone in the so-called vegetative state that Terri is in. Artificial life support will maintain the freshness of the body and even a lot of its functions, but with brain function gone (known as being no more than at a plant level)I don't think it is any different than putting flowers in a vase. They will stay fresh longer in water but eventually will wither.

I believe that people like Terri have actually died should be allowed to wither. I can understand wanting to hang on to a loved one who seems to still be breathing, but if she hasn't awakened by now she won't. It's time to let the rose fade and die.

Terri had expressed to her husband, She would not want to live this way...I have met few people that would. Why do you think that just because this makes you uncomfortable, that you have the right to over ride her expressed directives?

I mean - she is not 'living' as anything if she cannot think, how does she know how she is living? Is she suffering, and if so, does that mean she is thinking?

We have the power to make choices even in the event that we can longer make choices or care about them.

Is that unreasonable?

I am just wondering on a deeper level the connection of mind and body. What is the point in having a living will saying we want our body to die if our mind is gone - since we won't know anyway? She has bo clue right now, correct?

Not just this case, just the idea in general. Just tossing this out as I find it most interesting.

decisions about what to do with you or your posessions.

Who should be appoointed to make those decisions, and how?

If you accept that someone will have to make that determination, who better to do it than YOU when you're able to?

She is not able to say at this point. We can believe the person most who represents our side of things (or not believe if they say opposite of what we think is the right thing to do).

But it goes back to what I am getting at deeper - what is 'you' at that point. Are you the mind? Without the mind what does it matter what happens to your body when in such a state? Why should you care because 'you' is now gone. I mean this less in reference to her case and more to a general question in a philosophical sense. Why have a living will (or tell someone) that if you are 'gone' that you want your body to die to - what is the point (unless you have some belief in an afterlife, soul, god, et al)?

outside the whole Terri case - what really is the point about worrying about such a thing and making a living will and such if you cannot think anyway when in such a state? Why care at all?

and thus made him her voice in the event she could not make her own choices any more.

Those were her known choices and I respect them.

Why does it matter? Again, SOMEONE must choose what happens to you. Who should that person be? I say if it's choices about ME I should make the choice.

And in general there are many variables - instead of PVS like Terri you may be in a coma and someone must decide on your behalf whether your body is kept alive and for how long - who should make your medical choice for you?

Or not a coma. You may be in an accident and there are multiple choices about treatment. Who makes those life altering choices for you?

I care what happens to my body and my posessions - they are mine and I should decide what happens or who will speak on my behalf when I can't.

Is her soul still there?

I don't know. I have no honest opinion.
Her brain is liquid, her body a shell, her functions brought on by the medula oblongata.

Does the soul die with the body or does the soul die with the spirit?

My RW mom would say yes, her soul is still there. Brain's gone, but the soul still exists. It won't die, but will go onto heaven if she's a christian.

Has her soul left? Is it gone from her body.

Does it go with the body or does it go with the spirit.

I've heard this in christian circles.

Is she dead or is she not.

If her soul's still there...after 15 years...what's that say about the essence of the soul? Is the mind or the body the soul? I say the mind...and that left 15 years ago.

If the brain is necessary for the mind, then it must be for the soul, as well.

The conception of the soul (at least in Xtian terms) is a spiritual/non-corporeal formation of the host person's individuality...an individuality that is DEFINED by prior experience, memories, and emotions. All of which are FUNCTIONS of the brain.

JB

but a really good descrption of the situation.

but the question that you should be asking is, should we be able to choose what happens to our bodies after we die?

Should we be allowed to choose to be Organ Donors or not? Should we be allowed to choose whether we are buried, cremated or turned over to science for research and study?

Since Terry doesn't care what happens to her anymore, should the hospital be allowed to sell her to a research facility where she will be used as a human guinea pig? Should the hospital be allowed to sell her body to the highest bidder, regardless of their intentions?

Sure, the last paragraph is stretching the realms of possibilities, but these are the issues that you need to think about when asking your question.

Here's another question for you. How would you feel if you knew that you had absolutely no control over what happens to you once you are no longer a functioning human being?

Why would I care, the body is nothing but a mass of cells and such, and without the mind I won't care either way. Use it as a doorstop, I won't know. Hell, use her as one - if she is not able to think she is not able to care. Of course if she is able to care then there is a problem - she can care and not be able to communicate - So ask yourself this: If you said you wanted to die to your spouse in such a case, then it happens, and suddenly you care and cannot communicate, what then? SOL? Some people believe she still can think, and may have had a change of heart - maybe she does not want to starve to death, maybe she does - are we willing to let one person decide her fate and trust him completely?

Now add to that this - if she is brain dead and cannot think or feel, it won't affect her to live or die, so why all the fuss, let her live and hope for medicine in a few years that maybe can do something, etc and so on - not like she cares right now. But if she can think and feel, it is possible she has changed her mind and adapted to her new life and does not want to end it - in which case we could use more time to find a way to determine that. IF she is able to think and still wants to die, then we killing someone based on the testimony of someone else who says she wants to die - and that may well be the case, but like a death penalty hearing I think it should be proceeded with much caution, assume innocence (if you will), and try to determine the whole truth.

The example that comes to mind - if * was the one saying someone wanted to die, he was sure they told him they did, would we trust him? Or would we talk to people who knew that person their whole life and keep digging - and we have time since the general consensus is that person ain't feeling anything anyway, so what do they care?

quite understandable if she had a brain, but she doesnt. She literally is missing a huge chunk, and its the chunk that houses consciousness, intelligence, everything that makes her, her.

There is no way to grow it back, there is going to be no way to grow it back in her lifetime, there is no medical procedure that can be used to save her.

There is NO way that she still exists without her higher brain, she is left with motor control which keeps her alive but that is not "her", that is simply a regulatory system, its not a seat of self.

She is gone and has been for 15 years. We arent talking about a coma where the brain still physically is intact for the most part but she is just out of it, literally the entire part of her brain dealing with anything other than motor control or reflex is physically nonexistant.

She's gone. Time to bury the body and move on. It's what she wanted and those wishes should be honored IMO.

On the road to nowhere.