Torture - ok; Govt Propoganda - ok; Poisoning folks via pollution - ok;

Recreating an indentured servitude system - ok; Using tax dollars to "pay off" campaign contributors - ok; Pushing the federal government into the greatest debt ever - while continuing to give big tax cuts to the rick - ok; Cutting vet medical care while creating more medically in-need vets - ok; first strike war (can no longer call in preemptive since bush has said that it was the right thing to do even though saddam wasn't pursuing WMDs and was not collaborating with al qeada - thus declaring that first strike war with no threat is now allowable US policy) - ok....

Somehow I don't know that a "majority" Americans would buy this, if they saw each item - without the spin - lined up as a political platform. Would they?

... but you have to hand it to the repukes; they are masters of propaganda and spin.

is that more moderates that I know are beginning to be more aware of some of these issues (and don't agree) - they just don't yet see all of the issues together - and when they are stacked up together it is hard to keep giving the benefit of the doubt (which many americans do, because they don't want to believe that folks elected would act with such wanton disrespect for the american public).

The other is the there seems to be the most sustained efforts of progressive organizing that is bringing more and more people into action than anytime in my memory. My hope is the latter will help spread the word to the former...

I try to pick one issue (it's HARD to get it down to one) a day & send it along to folks who haven't shut their minds.

I've been having an ongoing discussion with my 37-year old son that he really should pay attention; he and his children will be bearing the brunt of *'s policies.

His premise: they're all crooks and it doesn't make a difference who's in power. My premise: elect someone who will openly steal from you a little rather than someone who will steal you blind, rape you and then sell you into corporate slavery.

One of the problems I'm encountering is folks don't like to think - I suspect it hurts their heads. Anyone have any ideas how to get around that one?

in many cases I think it is a defense mechanism... folks want to believe what we were taught in civics - about representation - about the inherent good in our system and in those who serve... and that while there are policy differences between the parties that both in the end want to promote good things for the country even if they go about it in different ways.

Ya, on the surface one gets the "they are all the same" - but I think when one scratches the surface there is a real aversion to thinking that there are evil intentions that are driving those in charge's actions and that in that evil, a willingness to cause grave harm to the citizens and the country.

I think for many that level of cognitive dissonance is just too hard to try to reconcile - so they push off the dissonance by just not thinking about it... that is why I think we need to learn from those who have "woken up"...what pushed them through to cognitive dissonance .. got them through staying in the comfortable denial space... from that we learn how to get more to go through that process...

I'll give it a shot.

those threads are always inspiring, hopeful - and most importantly... informative (threads when folks have conversations that start opening previously closed eyes...) Good luck.

In fact, they did. We had our "accountability moment" last november, remember?

saw what they were voting for... there was so much spin... so much Madison avenue ad campaigning to sell and to obscure. I don't think that all who voted really saw for what they were voting.