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2 points: 1) Dr. Sanjay Gupta is kicking butt and taking names on CNN!

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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 10:39 PM
Original message
2 points: 1) Dr. Sanjay Gupta is kicking butt and taking names on CNN!
Edited on Sun Mar-20-05 10:40 PM by Ilsa
I hope I spelled his name right.

1) He was just saying that her movements are reflexes, that she is gone. Was anyone in Congress listening?

2) I hope someone in Congress addresses the so-called "cruelty" issue of starvation/dehydration, and that no suffering is involved, especially for someone with her lack of mental capacity and sensation.
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 10:49 PM
Response to Original message
1. That puts Dr. Gupta at odds with CNN's spin on this...
Edited on Sun Mar-20-05 10:50 PM by DeepModem Mom
from what I've been reading here on DU. Interesting --
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I wonder if he will be looking for a new gig soon.
I agree that CNN (what I have seen of it) has framed this as a "save Terri from starvation" story.
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riverwalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
2. he is neurosurgeon
his specialty
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TexasSissy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
4. I'm not so sure about #2 in your post.
Don't get me wrong. I think it's very dangerous for Congress to try to undo a judicial decision it doesn't like - separation of the branches of government, checks and balances and all. Very dangerous.

But I do have a problem with unplugging the feeding tube for starvation. I don't know much about it, granted, but it does sound like it would at the least be uncomfortable. I wouldn't think it would be painful, as such, for any of us to starve to death. Pain is not the right word. But we would surely suffer in teh process wouldn't we? Wouldn't she?
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rfranklin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. She is brain dead...
She can't feel anything. Actually, there is no person in that body.
There is no suffering.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. No, she is not brain dead.
She still has brain stem activity. For her to be brain dead, she must have no brain activity, including brain stem. Which is not the case.
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Lindacooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Sigh. No.
Her cerebral cortex is gone. She does not have any capacity for feelings, emotions, wants, needs, etc. The cerebral cortex is what makes us human. She will not suffer.

If anything, a feeding tube drilled directly into your stomach is uncomfortable!
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alcuno Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Her cerebral cortex is liquified.
No thoughts, no feeling, no pain. There are things they can give for the dry mouth that ensues.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. So, if I went up there and decided, for instance, to cut her
finger off, she would not feel that? Seem this is something could be easy enough to check.
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Lindacooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #11
20. What? I don't understand your point.
Why would you want to cut her finger off?
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RevCheesehead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Nope.
Most medical experts agree there is no pain at all involved. Terri would not die from "starvation," but "dehydration." But just in case, most patients whose families choose that route are given morphine.

It really is a humane and dignified way to die. I have known many people who died this way. It's heartwrenching, but no more than any other death is for the loved ones.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. If one can agree that she's braindead......
how could she experience the sensation of starving? She'd have to have a cognitive function that could compehend her situation. That's not the case here. You or I or any aware person could experience the sensation of starvation, but Terri has no such facility to feel or understand it.

But, OK, starving is a pathetic way to deal with this issue....and it's only done because some religious moralists would complain that we are actively killing her if we were to use quicker, more humane procedures...like a morphine drip.
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jrthin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. I DON'T THINK YOU UNDERSTAND...
SHE'S BRAIN DEAD! SHE CAN'T FEEL SENSATION.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. What you don't understand is she is not Brain Dead.
She has lower brain activity, which means she is not brain dead. Geez!
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. No she's not brain dead - just mostly brain missing.
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #4
19. Tube removal is done frequently.
Patients can be given morphine if there is any hint of pain. Actually, dehydration begins a process of euphoria as endorphins are released.

People are perceiving the method from only their own point of view: of a healthy, aware human. The vessel formerly known as Terri is not aware.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
9. Please, don't forget to add that
Dr. Gupta never had the opportunity to examine Terri Schiavo, as he clearly stated.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. So--when did you examine her?
And what about the reports of the doctors who did examine her?
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Well, I would love to see for myself. But obviously
I would not be allowed.
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Lindacooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. No kidding.
Right to privacy apparently isn't one of the principles you hold dear.
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. And what would your medical specialty be?
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 11:48 PM
Response to Original message
15. Thank You
*******QUOTE*********

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=2270&ncid=2270&e=2&u=/krwashbureau/20050319/ts_krwashbureau/_bc_braindamagedwoman_guardian_wa

.... Wolfson was appointed by a Florida court in the fall of 2003 to be Schiavo's guardian ad litem, or guardian at law, to deduce Schiavo's best interests and represent neither her husband nor her parents but Terri Schiavo herself.

This makes Wolfson one of the very few people to have spent extended time with Schiavo and gauged her level of awareness without having a vested interest at stake.

In the end, after long hours at Schiavo's bedside and after poring over 30,000 pages of legal documents, Wolfson concluded that Schiavo was indeed in a permanent vegetative state. ....

But Schiavo never made eye contact. When Wolfson visited her when her parents were there, she never made eye contact with them either, he said. And for all of Wolfson's pleadings and coaxing, he never got what he most wanted: a sign. ....

Wolfson was dismayed to learn Friday that Barbara Weller, an attorney for the Schindlers, claimed that Schiavo tried to speak. "Terri does not speak," he said. "To claim otherwise reduces her to a fiction." ....

********UNQUOTE*******
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