Any hunter/gatherers in the crowd?

Who else is ready for it? Because I can't take this anymore. I can't watch congress and know it's all bullshit. I can't keep reading about all the corruption in every industry. Protesting is great, but it won't stop Rumsfeld and his corporate and state terrorism.

No giant governments.

No global corporations.

No insurance or credit card companies owning your every move.

You want an apple? Go pick an apple. Not buy 20 in a bag and let most go bad before you eat them.

Hunt a buffalo(but not every buffalo), not for shits and giggles, but for survival. Eat the meat, use the bones and the fur(but not to show off for your well-to-do friends).

No more industrial nation-state to go to war with another industrial nation-state.

No more timber companies.

No more oil companies.

No more cubicles. Just vast wilderness. No more crazy work schedules. No longer have to get up at 5:30am to get to work because work is an hour away.

No more celebrity trials. No more celebrities.

No more media empires.

No more drug companies.

No Monsanto's of the world.

No more bills.

No more guns. You want to kill someone, you earn it.

Want some heat? Build a fire.

No more time.

Sounds like a better way to exist than the artificial mass mess we live in today. It wasn't perfect, but anything has to be better than this.

Back to the wilderness...

Only, is there one still?

Sue

loneliness and mistery and being ridiculed is bad. TYhat's why I've got my cubicle and television.

since i turned 30. cannot imagine going back into the madness. please explain the "you want to kill someone, you earn it"

that if the shit hits the fan, and ya have to take someone out, expect a knockdown drag out. No blowing the guy away in a drive by. Let's face it, Utopia never existed. Getting back to nature would be great, I agree. But even the Neanderthals had their conflicts. Man is an aggressive animal, unfortunately.

action, reaction. i get it.

A woman likes to feel attractive even while sweating in the fields!

fry it up in a pan...........me, i am funny. can keep him in stitches, lol

just migrate by water

let's all get us a tribe together (safety in numbers) and turn back the clock to about 10,000 B.C. - I'll go in a heartbeat. Otherwise, stop the damned world, I wanna get off.

survival ways. Get a US Army Survival Manual, for starters, I'm sure there are many other valuable books out there on this subject - learn cannery, your trees, plants, gardening, take a major first aid course.

Sometimes I feel I want to 'get away' (have some farmland not too far - was raised with bare minimums and am not squeamish about doing 'without') but not being able to rely on the usual amenities we are so used to is a huge challenge. I cannot comprehend what our pioneer ancestors did - living in sod huts through brutal cold winters...

Makes a big difference too in what your lifestyle is now and just how big a contrast that would be.

We are planning a survival vacation this summer.

I have this instinctual pull to go back to a homestead lifestyle. I have always had this but as things become more chaotic it is becoming too strong to ignore.

The following is to a completely self sufficient home.

http://fourmileisland.com/

Gee, wish I would've know you before one of my brother's solar business died a slow death. *sigh*

or are reading it....good for you.

Just watching 60 minutes tonight, and they had a story on a group of peoples where civilization basically hasn't touched them, except for a few Burmese military bases, and some tourism. It's not the first time I thought about it, but when you can see real life examples, it's nice. They don't have a word for want or when.

fact for the Native Americans living in the Western ghettos we call reservations.

Except for historical exhibits like Yellowstone and some private ranches, the buffalo are gone, my friend. And you can't just migrate around following the berries and deer. Land owners won't let you.

A couple three years ago, two little boys showed up in our area. They were from the upper Midwest, if memory serves. About 9 and 10, they hitched rides and stole cars to make it this far west.

Now, while it looks pretty uninhabited around here, the land is either deeded or federal. If you can walk on it, somebody owns it.

Reports started coming in about folks seeing two dirty, skinny kids out in the breaks. A local rancher and the Sheriff finally got the little rascals and brought them in for food, a bath and a wait for frantic parents.

Seems the boys read about 'out west' and decided to stake a claim to a homestead, find wives and settle down. They were hard to find cuz they were so worried about "hostile Indians" that they shunned any place they heard people.

True story. They actually thought they could just go west and live off the land, homestead, do the pioneer thing.

Made us wonder what the hell they are teaching kids back where they boys were from. Must have been using REALLY OLD text books. This is the most remote community in the lower 48 and just about every damn bit of it has been put into a GPS program.

Gonna take a whole lot of upheaval and diminished population before roaming around, living off the land is in vogue again.

No more ownership of land.

But I know what you're saying. It's not even possible, unless(a whole lot of upheaval and diminished population before roaming around, living off the land is in vogue again.) that happens. I'm not saying I want that to happen. Just dreaming of a more simple time really.

The worst part is things will just keep getting bigger if we keep doig what we're doing. As business gets bigger, government will get bigger. As government gets bigger, business will get bigger. They have to, because they have to co-exist. If one dominates the other, you have problems. If they actually work together, then you've got really serious problems.

Interesting story about the kids though. Learn something everyday.

don't knock the "artificial mass mess" until you haven't tried it.

I'm just as used to all the modern day luxuries as the next person. But people did survive without them, at least the way we have them today.

Take away candy, you take away a good chunk of dental problems. But, you break a tooth, there won't be a replacement.

With all the medicine today, we have more medical problems than ever. But clearly, modern medicine does quite the job.

yes- just not as many, not as long, and not as well.

how would you know you didn't live long?

I'm not saying I expect it to happen. It was more a rant than anything. It's not even possible, without billions dying. Just thinking out loud in frustration.

there are a few things I want to keep. Like antibiotics. ;)

Because if you assembled a group of like-minded people, who sold their houses and bought a large track of land in a primitive area, maybe you could come close. But with property tax, you never really own the land, but occupy it at the whim of the State. (this is not a rant against property tax) But even if you went to a very isolated area, I don't think the government will leave you alone. I once read about a guy who built a log cabin somewhere lost in the mountains of Montana. The state made him tear it down because it didn't conform to building standards.

I guess you could move to French Guiana, where the interior is virtually uninhabited and still unexplored. But you'd have to contend with giant tarantulas, mosquitoes, poisonous snakes, leeches, and crocs, and terrible heat and humidity.

property tax in the country. Maybe i don't want to post this lol. ;) I don't think there is anyplace with no property taxes.

:shrug:

Can I use a trebuchet?

Hunting gathering takes up an entire day, and some days we will go hungry. Its constant work, all day. Its not like picking up an apple and eating it. Most food need lengthy preparation to be edible...

Growing crops is insurance against going hungry. You will also have something to trade.

Frankly I'm not willing to give up on modern medicne, or even a comfy retirement. I like a BUG FREE BED.

I've pretty much been convinced that your way is the only answer for a sustainable planet. If we have to sacrifice things like advanced medicine and computers, etc., so be it. I'd never make it in such a society. That's okay by me. Ever since we "invented" agriculture, we've been bad for the planet...sure it starts with a few stalks of corn and sprigs of wheat, and a couple of milennia later--here we are. Sigh. I hope you get your hunter/gatherer society AG78--and I hope the planet gets it, too, with or without me in it.

No more drug companies? Do you have any diabetic relatives? wonder what they'd think of that.

Want some heat? Build a fire. Deforestation and air pollution, anyone?

No more cubicles. Just vast wilderness. Not with all the people who now live in cities living in the woods...it'd be a damned crowded wilderness. And smelly, because of no sewage-treatment plants.

No longer have to get up at 5:30am to get to work because work is an hour away. No, you'd have to get up at 5:30 because if you didn't "hunt and gather" some food today, you'd starve.

Redstone

That throws the wrench into my thoughts, but I know those thoughts aren't practical.

"No, you'd have to get up at 5:30 because if you didn't "hunt and gather" some food today, you'd starve."

Why would you have to get up at 5:30 to do that? But without time, nobody would know if it was 5:30, so maybe they would be up by then anyway.

Sometimes, I don't think that this society is a good place for me. I have considered the alternatives and going off and living in the woods seems to be a good idea. There is the problem with the whole land issue, but land is cheap in some areas. Eventually I suppose that with the whole property tax issue, I would have to have some connection to the monied world. My parents took me camping when I was young. My father was a good boy scout who taught wilderness survival. My husband also learned such things in boy scouts so I am confident that we would make it with out much problem if we picked the right spot to live. This is much different from my life right now though, which is probably why I haven't done it yet.

If apple trees aren't cultivated and tended and propagated (by people), they revert pretty quickly to producing fruit that's a lot more like a crabapple than a Golden Delicious.

You can have my share.

Redstone

(Which isn't to say women can't have the same fantasy, or that it isn't a happy fantasy, mind you.)

But whenever I get into that fantasy, it just devolves into a total pain in the ass.

If you want a bun with your buffalo burger, you have to grow the grain, process it into flour, and spend hours baking in an oven or on a rock that doesn't have very even heat distribution, so it's unlikely to cook well. (Unless you're into acorns, but that takes a long time too, and acorn meal that doesn't have the tannins fully leached out is GROSS.)

If you want clothes that aren't made of skins, you have to take the raw wool, cotton, or what have you, somehow turn it into thread, and either knit it or turn the thread into cloth, cut the cloth, and sew it. Wearing either furs or a sweater all summer sounds really lame, but so does going nekkid and getting sunburned.

If you shoot a deer, or buffalo, or boar, or stray dairy cow, you then have to find some way of keeping the meat from spoiling. Cutting it into small strips and smoking it seems to be the word on the street. But then you have to have a dry place to store a big pile of meat, and you have to keep the animals from getting into it or you're hosed.

No winter veggies, unless you count tubers and dried berries. Even summer veggies, unless you had a garden, would be hard to come by. Miner's lettuce, chicory, dandelions, and watercress. Bo-ring.

Also, and finally, women bleed. Bleeding for a week in the woods is really not fun. You feel gross, and you want to take a bath but you have very limited bathing options. Women also bear children. Before 1900, half of all women died in childbirth. That sounds pretty bogus.

If you take care of all the food preparation, clothes, and the baths though, I'm in!

(I highly suggest "Into the Wild" by Krakauer. Very eye opening.)

Why the need for a bun?

And I wouldn't argue on the woman thing. I'm not a woman, so I don't know what that's like. I'm sure men had their fair share of problems too though.

would get a bit onerous during the winter. I was being slightly facetious about the bun, but even the native americans had flatbread.

What can I say? I'm spoiled. :-)

I live in the modern world too. Subject to the same luxuries. I'm just not sure where we're going as a civilization.

Like I said in an earlier post, I was watching 60 Minutes last night and they had a story about a tribe/group/nomads/whatever of people somewhere around Indonesia. It's obviously just a small picture, but they seemed so content. Nobody knew their own age, they had no word for want or when, and if they wanted breakfast they caught a fish, and worried about lunch when they were hungry again. Not that it was lunch, I doubt they had that concept.

Having to pay bills, or building a hut. And if you have to move, knock it down and build another one somewhere else.

Obviously that's very difficult to do with ownership of land, and with the amount of people on the planet in the industrialized/developing world, but seeing a story like on 60 Minutes at least makes one think.

All of my skills require the existence of technology. Without technology and civilization I'd never have made it out of infancy and I'd be one piss poor hunter or gatherer: I'm extremely nearsighted.

...but winter's a whole other story for us white folks. I think at this point in time even the Natives out in the villages might have a hard time because they've become so dependent on snowmachines and whatnot, electricity and fuel oil for heating.

I rather stand my ground and fight to make things better. Besides I can navigate an urban enviroment far better than the wild (I can talk faster than I can run).

water".

Consistent enforcement of rules/laws would help, greatly.

Recognizing that greed must have limits, too, and rules/laws must be strongly enforced to contain those who are willing to do anything to win or gain/exploit power at indefinite cost to human beings who cannot possible equalize such circumstances.

Acknowledging that,...bigger is necessarily not better for humanity without the willing participation of and fair reward to human participants would also advance a better world.

I could go on and on,...but, I'd just be preaching to the choir.

I live in Alaska and live off of salmon, caribou, moose, black bear, halibut, razor clams, tiger prawns, and Sitka deer. I do not buy meat and I grow a bunch of my own vegetables. It's the only way to go.

A combination of solar and wind is sufficient to store enough power for use during periods when sun and wind are unavailable. These systems tcan be made very cheaply.

A root cellar can store fruits and vegetables for up to two months. Canning provides for longer storage.

Since electric is a non issue meat CAN be frozen. And i personally LOVE smoked pork.

I dated a Croatian man for several years and his family would grow and can MANY of the vegetables they used throughout the year. They also would smoke meat each year.

During the blackout last year i learned just how dependent we all are. Stores practically shut down without computers to scan bar codes.

A week ago my apartment went for two days with no water because of a water main break. It is pretty difficult when you cannot flush a toilet, wash dishes, wash your hands, take a shower. And have no backup system for these things.

I have no idea where things are headed but i prefer to be prepared for anything. If there is a famine from drought i want my kids to know how to find food and water. I prefer to have independent resources in the event there is a problem with water, power or heat.

I cannot think of a more rewarding use of my time and energy.

AND a windmill, AND a battery bank for cloudy and still days, with the money the government has thrown down the rathole of Iraq...at $15,000 per house, that'd be a lot of energy not having to be generated by fossil fuels, wouldn't it?

But no, we can't do that, can we?

Redstone