Folks, As Strange As It Sounds, This Issue Could Be The Turning Point

It is far more than one tragic, isolated case. It is becoming a symbol for raw abuse of governmental power.

In the history of the ebb and flow of political power in our country, whenever one party gets too much power, they inevitably overstep their bounds and the tide turns and the American people begin to reject them.

This issue highlights in a dramatically public way, how the Republican leadership is held hostage to the desires of an extremist section of the population, the religious right, that, in reality, is no more than 10-15% of the electorate.

They are not representing the wishes or desires of the vast middle of this country.

This and social security and one or two other correctly positioned and well framed issues are enough to turn the tide.

We may finally be witnessing the beginning of the end of Republican dominance.

but they and their friends still control the voting machines.

pro, it's time you DEFINE your own Reality and accept no substitutions.

We just had the biggest protest against the Iraq War ever and it wasn't in the news, but the powers that be know all about how pissed off we are.

Repubs are making their final efforts to maintain control, but our government was designed by people who knew this could happen and that's why they gave US the power and put enough checks and balances in to tip us off to these kind of power plays.

If you can find it, read Paul Loeb's "The Impossible Will Take A Little While" and you will see how on target things are. The DU and all freedom fighters out there are getting it right in so many ways.

The repugs took a big gamble building everything on a pack of lies and hiding the truth. Now it's coming right back in their faces and they brought it on themselves, even by punishing those who tell the truth they cannot run from the consequences of their actions.

What goes around, comes around and they are in for a real rough ride.

we've been saying--for the past four years and two months--each time a scandal broke that it was the "turning point". Yet nothing has turned, except perhaps our forefathers in their graves.

We Dems have a lot of hope and a lot of spunk, but we don't have clear vision if we don't see that this administration is completely taking over everything, including our personal lives, destroying our Constitution and Bill of Rights in the process. Yes, what goes around usually does come around, but if something doesn't give very very soon...

Demonstrations are fantastic, but they aren't going to turn the tide when they're ignored by the media and our representatives don't respond (except to put us in free speech zones and order our arrest for daring to dissent). If we can't convince the MSM to begin thinking about the general welfare of all of us, including the future of their own children, we don't have a chance in hell.

I hope you are right, I really do hope you are right.

I've been watching CNN (well not really watching, it's just playing in the background) and it's all bullshit.

Republicans screaming, Dems trying to reason with the frothing at the mouth majority.

I do hope you are right...

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You can't regrow a cerebral cortex once it is gone.

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http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/schiavo/flsct92304opn.pdf

I don't remember, but it may be around page 4.

Really? Wow! You mean because of the love of your Dad and the miracle of modern medicine you were able to come back from a medically defined "Persistent Vegetative State" and re-grow your Cerebral Cortex?

It's a Miracle! Hallelujah! Praise Jesus! It's a miracle!

Sorry to mock you, but that is just scientifically and medically impossible....Not to mention that the article you posted from "so-called news source" has completely inaccurate information and factually INCORRECT points in reference to many points, including the statement that she never had a court appointed guardian "guardian ad litem" Not true at all...she did have a guardian ad litem and he/she agreed that all the findings and facts presented by the various witnesses in the court are that Terri Schiavo would not want to live as such.

Anyway, the fact that you were able to regrow a Cerebral Cortex is just so amazing....I really think you should go testify in front of Congress or atleast appear on Oprah or Jerry Springer...there are people who would love to hear more about that one.... :eyes:

It's easy to re-grow tiny lizard brains inside an empty cavity.

to sign the unconstitutional bill to try to keep poor Terri alive against her wishes....

No this was a case of a Right Wing Nut who has bought into the bs of this administration and who probably thinks GAWD told idiot son to do everything he does.

But the bs that this person put about having been in Terri Schiavo's situation and having recovered was just utter bs and I couldn't sit by and let that one go....I was probably more gentle than you would have been Swamp Rodent. :hi:

It's just unbelievable to what lengths these people will go to believe their own lies.....

I read all about it in The Guardian. The man did everything you could expect in a very humane way and Terri just did not respond.

This has been litigated for seven years.

Was your brain starved for oxygen? Was your cerebral cortex deemed "liquified"? Blunt trauma versus oxygen deprivation -- not the same thing at all!

I will say a prayer for you in your recovery. But I imagine your face stayed "animated" -- just look at the video of Terry's face and you can tell that there is no one in there. She is an empty shell.

I disagree 100% with that "American Eagle" rightwingnut hypocritical nonsense you are posting here.

Let's allow people to die naturally and with dignity - to achieve their rest and go to meet their Maker without lots of tubes sticking out from their bodies after 15 years of worsening prognoses. FEEDING TUBES ARE NOT NATURAL. IF GOD WANTS TO DO A MIRACLE ON TERRY - HE WON'T NEED TO RELY ON A F'ING FEEDING TUBE!

:hi:

Two things - ONE: SUPPORT OUR DEMS - they are fighting really, really hard right now on multiple fronts and words of encouragement from us aren't expected, but needed and appreciated.

TWO: Try the INDY News Sites - http://chicago.indymedia.org
There is a list down the left side to get to your own city.

Or www.TruthOut.org

C -ee
N -o
N -ews

N -amby
P -amby
R -aido

FOX = FAUX News

I'd really like to see some reliable polling numbers to see how the rest of the country feels about this.

I saw a Faux poll (not Internet) that was insanely in our favor.

Still, it disgusts me how much power the government has in cases like this. It makes me wonder if I'm really a libertarian.

in favor of the fundies just as easly to the idea of sanity.

.

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That is the quoted "newssource." That's also the name of the cheesey "Christian" high school in that movie, SAVED! that goofs on the religious right.

Really, really nonsense. What do a fundy sherriff and motorcyclist know that a team of neurologists don't?

--IMM

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That moron sheriff tried to bring her water?? Did he think she could drink it?

And I really got a chuckle out of the last paragraph. Shiavo does not have a treatable illness - duh. I guess doctors and nurses are the next target of the idiotic fundie machine.

And I'd like to think that my next-of-kin could decide what my fate would be, if and when the decision was out of my hands. Not some fathead that might be trying to score points with his political base.

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...ago. Sorry, on his website it doesn't respondent but just lists:

DRUDGE RADIO to present audio of Terri Schiavo 'responding to her father on Friday, immediately following the removal of her feeding tube'.... Check local listings...

Anyone have the audio link? What I heard was a human being in agony and a parent in denial. Did anyone else hear the recoding?

at the moment, but they might later. . .

...It was supposedly recorded by Terri Schiavo's father on Friday soon after the feeding tube was removed from Terri's abdomen. I could only listen to about 45 seconds as her father persistently prompted Terri to respond to his questions about how she was feeling, was she hurting, where was she feeling pain, what specific parts of her body was she feeling pain, over and over and over.

The recorded responses if they were actually coming from Terri sounded very much like moans and groans of a tormented person, and I had the distinct image of a person being tortured by a relentless sadistic persecutor, her father, who had lost all sense of compassion and reality. It almost sounded like Terri was saying, "Stop, stop, no more, please no more, let me go, let me gooooooooo!"

I had to turn the radio off and I quietly weeped for this young woman. I asked God in His mercy to relieve her of further pain and torment and to not allow this charade to continue.

How I pray you are right! There has to be a good side to this miscarriage of justice and abuse of power!

Copyright rules are being broken on too.

this is a huge wedge issue. Did any of you listen to the C-Span callers? One woman actually said she was switching parties over this.

I hope to God the Dem leaders know how this is playing across the country.

I noted that a LOT of Dem. reps voted to suspend the rules to vote on this bill. They wouldn't have done that if they thought their constituents wouldn't like it.

Yes, this is a turning point. It clinches the deal: the country is in now total control of the Christian Coalition. No valid opposing party really exists anymore. Just smatterings of people here and there who disagree with the leaders, the Christian right.

You're totally wrong. Polling already shows that OVERWHELMING majorities disagree with the Repubs on this. (see Fox News poll) As this thing gets more heated over the next few days/weeks, it will become apparent that the Republicans have majorly miscalculated the mood of America on this.

C-span callers seem to disagree with the Repubs for the most part.
But the spin has already begun on the cable shows. I heard, among other comments, that * rushing back for this "proves what a good man he is" (gag)and that Bill Frist really "comes out the winner in this."

DeLay...the one with the ethics and criminal behavior problems. That guy. Golden boy.

It doesn't matter what mainstream media says, there were over 750 demonstrations against the war in the United States 3/19-20 and it wasn't reported. It doesn't matter. It happened and like it or not, the power of the people is rising like a tsunami.

They cannot make the truth go away by hiding it or lying about it.

We have to get our country back first. The immediacy of this law is less than some others that HAVE to be stopped. HR418 comes to mind. Prison Camps anyone?

Instead of running around and screaming that the sky is falling because the repugs are scaring the hell out of US with their insane misdirection tactis, blow them totally off and quit discussing this ad nauseum.

Thousands upon Thousands of people came together this weekend, but no one can find the info on the Web unless they come here or to INDY sites because we are watching this diversion like everyone else watched the Michael Jackson trial.

Get a grip people. ACT like DEMS, not frightened children.

Back when our country was founded there were a whole lot of Brittish soldiers who were the elite fighting machines of their day and they couldn't get around our Minute Men.

DEMs know about Guerilla warfare on the political level too. Stop and think. We have to quit letting the repugs suck out our life blood with their tactics.

Otherwise, just go lay down in the street and wait to die.

Our elected DEM officials are growing spines and we have to too.

About this turning the tide.

I am so totally disgusted about this.

My family had to make the same decision, removing a feeding tube, from my Dad in 1991.

The four us decided it was the best thing to do. Daddy hadn't recognized any of us for 2 years and he wasn't ever going to get any better. His doctor reassured us that it wouldn't be painful for him at all.

It was the hardest thing we'd ever done in our lives, but we knew that it was time to let go.

The only thing though it was taken out of our hands. The night we made the decision, my father died peacefully in his sleep.

Will have no effect on them. Any issue merely becomes a matter of redirecting the media on how to handle it. They can make any mistake and if the press does not cover it favorably to us it means nothing.

They have the medie. They have their propoganda. Without dismantling this we are dead in the water. Protests and activism only make a difference if people see and hear it. As long as the right dominates the press and can generate the flow of dialog we are rendered mute. They can experiment and make as many mistakes as they want to and as long as they can create the perception of it in the public they win.

I remember my Dad during the Watergate scandal saying that the two best newspapers in the country were the New York Times and the Washington Post.

Daddy was a Nixon hater from way back. He absolutely despised Richard M. Nixon. On my 20th birthday, October 20, 1973, he called me at school and told me about the Saturday Night Massacre. He was absolutely furious about it. The night Nixon resigned, he got himself rip-roaring drunk.

As I sat and watched the debate and the vote on C-Span tonight, my thoughts turned to my father and if he was still with us thinking about what his reaction would be.

I'm pretty sure the federal courts will throw this bill out. It's blatantly unconstitutional, but then again I never thought that things would or could get so bad in this country.

Can't wait to hear what all the talking heads will be saying on tomorrow's morning shows.

I'm sort of glad he isn't around to grieve for this country. We lost him last September, and my mom is still around but has Alzheimer's. Her mother had it, and she was horrified that she would have it one day, too. One of the things she had said in her better days was that "there are worse things than death." Fortunately, both my parents signed living wills. I'm sorry to hear that you lost your dad, too.

Anyway, what I also wanted to say was that I don't think most of these congressional RWers care that much if it's unconstitutional - it has given them mileage with their fundamentalist base. Besides, if it doesn't hold up in court, they'll just use it to badmouth so-called "activist judges" while justifying the RW judges that W has nominated. BTW, I guess they label any jugdge as "activist" if they don't rule favorably on their agenda.

The Newspapers are going down hill because no one wants to pay for what they can get free - and with more reliable info - on the internet.

TV has so much crap on it, hardly anyone watches it anymore. Tell the stations and their sponsors and your reps/senators if they want to reach you forget Mainstream News because it's going down.

There are INDY News sites we can support and contribute to:
http://boston.indymedia.org
- On the left side each has links to other cities/states

wwwTruthOut.org is a better news source than most papers I've seen. Will Pitt of course leading the way there.

Put your money down, folks, where it can do some good and tell all the FAUX news people that you think they should get back to doing their jobs if they want your $$$.

www.buzzflash.com isn't as high of quality as the other two, but it comes up with good stuff quite often and the books it promotes are worthwhile.

www.CommonDreams is a good site too, if somewhat inconsistent also, but hey these people are taking up new territory and forging ahead.

One of the best articles I read on Iraq was by Naomi Klein http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1204-05.htm

Most people probably don't see any abuse of power. If people were fine about being lied to so that we could start a war, why would they give a crap about this issue? People aren't going to think of the wide implications of this and the media certainly is not going to step back and provide folks with some sort of reasonable analysis of it. All we're going to see are the shallow GOP talking points about "saving life" and other bullshit stuff to fire up the anti-choice faction for whatever reason.

Joe Six Pack won't get that this is abuse of power and God knows the "corporate media" won't bother their arses, to point it out for them.

I never thought I'd say this, but tonight I truly am ashamed to say that I'm an American.

If the federal courts don't throw this bill out, I'll seriously start thinking about leaving. My husband and I have a home in Ireland and it's looking better all the time.

I'm so ready to get the hell out of here. All of my energy in college next fall will be finding careers that involve living and working abroad in Europe.

...But it's a long way to 2006. And people (especially the 'sheeple') are notorious for short attention spans. :(

why didn't Congress just pass a bill lickety split saying that feeding/hydration tubes are not life support? Only respirators count as life support -- so if you can breathe on your own, no matter if you have spinal fluid for most of your brain, we will continue to feed/hydrate you. Wouldn't that have been simpler, and have achieved their end, immediately, or at least thrown it to a federal court, legitimately? If states can pass medical marijauna laws, and the feds can say that they don't count because we have carved out that area for ourselves -- couldn't they carve out the life support area for themselves, too?

We've been hoodwinked with God, Gays and Guns last year. I can't see how much will change unless Americans get off their arse and think for themselves again. What are the odds?

this has to be framed as a simple issue: the republicans represent a group that wishes to insert the big arm of government into private family medical matters.

The Democrats thinks that's a bad idea and believe it should be left up to families.

That's roughly the message that should be getting out and repeated OVER AND OVER for the next eighteen months.

And god, I hope so.

...that the Schiavo issue is a microcosm for what is totally perverse about the current state of American politics.

Everything that is wrong with this country--is rolled right into this issue.

The neocons--who are about as spiritual as a pile of warm spit--use religion as a public-relations device. They market religion and God to cull votes from unsuspecting church-going folk.

The neocon (PNAC) agenda--which entails the United States dominating the world through warmongering and corruption--has nothing to do with religion. However, they will exploit religious issues to excite their base--which vote in high numbers.

This is exactly what we are seeing--in full technicolor--with the Schiavo issue.

We all saw the talking points from the Republican memo that was leaked. The neocons need a divided nation. The neocons need issues that will position them as the moral-Christians who love God. They need an enemy who can bear the moniker of evil, murdering pagans who hate God. The Schiavo issue helped the neocons do all of these things.

I hope you are right.

I hope the Schiavo issue magnifies this perversity and helps people to finally understand how evil, revolting and pathological these neocon gangsters are.

The majority of people in this country are simply not End Timers/Rapturists or whatever.However, those that are vote lock step Republican. This will become a lose/lose proposition for the GOP.

Their choices are to continue their danse macabre with the zealots,and lose the support of more moderate voters, or distance themselves from the fundies, which will give a Ralph Reed,Gary Bauer,or whoever about 10% of the electorate in 2008.

Either way, a Dem will win the White House in 2008, providing we do something about BBV, which must be corrected if we are to have a prayer of reversing the course we find ourselves on.

I think the only reason Bush was able to hold onto the voting scam of 2004 was because the rightwing evangelicals mobilized voting in mainstream congregations.

Debate and discussion in mainstream Christian congregations such as the Methodists is being overwhelmed by the fundamentalist components of those churches. There are tons of Methodists in my church who don't know it's even possible as a Christian to discuss euthanasia or compassionate death.

I wish what you say is true, but 2008 may be more of the same where fundies overwhelm the mainstream Christians.

I'm beginning to believe the vast majority of Americans are brain dead. I don't know if they can distinguish between an assault on the Constitution and a private, family matter.

I just did a post in the GD Political Forum entitled: Rally Cry: Time to Pull Congress' Feeding Tube!! It's the coming together of this case and the steroid circus and I think it has some real good possibilities of political backlash IF the Dems stop picking their butts and start beating the drum. I won't repost it.....you can read it over there if you wish.

Last night they were basically called Murderers, for making that choice. It is bad enough to have to make this choice and live with it. Now this.

I believe that it is a wake up call, and we have to keep shouting this. This government is now intruding on a very private issue. Government was not supposed to be like this. Unchecked Power...that should be the Point of 2006.

This issue is really gonna do it. You know what issue I mean.

I'm talking about this issue (hint, hint, well, no hint really, but you should know what I'm talking about).

I won't tell you what I'm talking about, but you know.

Huh? This is really weird. Is it full moon?

Speaking just for himself, Rev. C. Welton Gaddy, President, The Interfaith Alliance said today in an email to me….

“A family’s grief over the loss of a loved one is being compounded by pontifical posturing among politicians and religious leaders who know too little about the situation even to comment on it much less to attempt to control it. A tragic situation is being made more tragic by the insensitive intrusion into it by Washington politicians seeking yet another venue for speaking to their partisan constituencies and for strengthening their political “base.” For Congress and the White House to jump into this tragic situation at the last minute, after years of court proceedings, and to take a position on the value of life so inconsistent with, if not contradictory to, many of their other decisions, represent unconscionable meddling in the private decision of an American family—a family who needs our thoughts and prayers, not our spirit of blatant judgment and our not-too-subtle politicization.”

they lied to start a fuckin' war, and the sheeple still reelected the bastards.

this is just wishfull thinking.