Terri Schiavo is saved. The Constitution may not be.

And the Republicans have once and for all jettisoned any pretense of being the party of less government. One nation under Bush! Woo-hoo!

I do have to say, however, that I totally disagree with how they were going to let Shiavo die. Wasting away from starvation over two weeks is a painful and unpleasant way to die, even if you're barely conscious. She should have been allowed to die with dignity.

Sciavo:

1. Establishment Clause (Separation of Church & State)
2. Separation of Powers
3. Right of Privacy
4. Due Process
5. Bill of Attainer

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Congress' collective push to "save" Terry Sciavo, if not the New Testament outright as per fundamentalist Christian interpretation. They are ignoring the Constitution and the case law interpreting the Constitution that the Florida state court(s) utlized in order to justify her husband being able to disconnect the feeding tube.

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all this is going on. It isn't based on philosophy, non-religious ethics, constitutional principles, etc. It's the Congress playing "God" with a citizen and her family. It's the flip side of the right-to-life argument wherein saving a life no matter what is the goal, whether it is a fetus or a humanbeing who only exists.

Delay's legal woes, Bush's Social Security fiasco, the fact that the US public just got screwed on the right to sue, bankruptcy and ANWR, the fact that 373,000 college graduates (you read right) dropped out of the labor force last month, the fact that Osama and the anthrax killer are still loose, the fact that warlords are running Afghanistan again and poppy cultivation is booming, the fact that Lebanon is about to go into civil war again, the fact that we have a record trade deficit, the fact that oil is $57.00 a barrel, the fact that the age of enlistment was quietly raised to 40 last week, the fact that the government is bankrupt and getting worse, the fact that there are more auto manufacturing jobs in Ontario than in Michigan (look it up), that fact that Iraq is heading towards a theocracy led by an ally of Iran, the fact that we have no plan to bring our troops home from there, the fact that we are years away from having a viable Iraqi security force, the fact that the dollar is collapsing and Japan, India and China are looking to dump even more, the fact that the White House has been using tax dollars to manipulate the news and even make fake "news" videos spouting their propaganda, the fact that a prostitute under a fake name and zip journalistic experience got a press pass to the WH for YEARS, the fact that the Ohio election was stolen and that your vote is no longer secure-did I miss anything?

Really, I want to know. If it's God's will that she stay alive, pull out the tube and let Him decide. Don't you have faith He will do the right thing?

:eyes:

RL

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If that was me, I'd rather be dead. In fact I have papers that said that. Her legal guardian had the responsibility in this case and he made the decision. That is the law.
BTW, what do you think a woman who was so focused on her appearance she drove herself to heart failure through bulimia would think about the way she looks now?

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I think you need to educate yourself on this case.

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a confidential memo circulated among congressional republicans. the problem is the merits these hypocrites see are all purely POLITICAL. The memo states that they can win points (and reelection) with the Christian right by pursuing this case.

<snip>

"In a memo distributed only to Republican senators, the Schiavo case was characterized as "a great political issue" that could pay dividends with Christian conservatives, whose support is essential in midterm elections such as those coming up in 2006."


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A49701-2005Mar19.html

Not so if the body cannot feel anything. Please do some research on
cerebral cortex.

Amerika has sunk into madness when a Pres. signs an unconstitutional law regarding one dead person.

100,000 plus dead in Iraq. How many in Afghanistan? How many dead Amerikan troops? Funds being cut for brain injured troops of Amerika.

INSANITY!

Scott Nearing starved himself to death when he was 100 and healthy. It is said to be a fairly painless way to die even if you have a functioning nervous system. Of course, he probably kept drinking water as long as he could.

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The fact that Terri's cerebral cortex is gone IS central to this case. It means that she has ZERO chance of recovery. The cortex controls almost every function of life. (Look it up in any introductory psychology text.) When it is gone, it's gone. No rehab (like you can do with a stroke victim); no surgical interventions (like they can do for infants previously given up as "hopeless" due to congenital or other medical conditions). The feeding tube is the only thing that is keeping her alive. The ONLY thing.

For what and for whom are we keeping her alive? Is it "meritorious" to make her and her family a spectacle for some twisted definition of "culture of life" or for those who have bigger motives in using their case for their political gain?

At what point do the concepts of dignity and common sense enter into this argument?

Your bringing up Hitler is a red herring, and quite frankly, offensive. There is NO comparison.

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but my questions to you still stand.

EDIT: Spelling error

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from THIS COUNTRY as the Supreme Court (via Oliver Wendell Holmes) endorsed state-sponsored sterilization of the "feeble-minded" in Bell v. Buck, which, BTW, is STILL GOOD LAW, as it's never been overruled. Henry Ford was a big proponent of eugenics and promoted it in his publications and his writings influenced several legislators around the country.

While this country never endorsed outright murder of "undesirables" like Hitler, until the 60s, patients/inmates at state institutions were shuttled into operating rooms and given vascectomies and tubal ligations so the reproduction chain of future undesirables would be broken.

Back to your original point, German families never went to Hitler, asking him and the Third Reich to euthanize their family members. As a matter of fact, patients in mental institutions, etc. were euthanized, and the hospitals, etc. lied to the families, saying their loved ones died of a virus going around, a cold, pneumonia, etc. It wasn't until much later, the truth came out what really happened.

and the balance of power between the states and federal government.

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Looks the same to me, even down to the state that is being overruled by the feds.

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and they even admitted it when they said that the decision was not to be used as a precedent, ever. I think you can count the times the SCOTUS has said that about a decision in one finger.

In Bush v. Gore, the Republicans advanced the role of the US Supreme Court in interpreting Florida state election law. It was a reversal of the traditional allegiances of Dems and Republicans on the federalism issue.

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I thought you were arguing the other side. My apologies. Though it sure sounded like it.

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but you had all the hallmarks of a "troll."

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the GOP and *, so eager to limit the availability of the fed courts to defendants seeking to appeal state court decisions as well as even contemplating removing diversity jurisdiction, sees it fit to expand jurisdiction in this case.....

i can't imagine how this is going to be upheld by the supremes

she can't feel pain and has NO consciousness. Several Hospice nurses here have weighed in here on patients with their feeding tubes removed.

See this decision by Scalia. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3307696

Those bozos in the House don't make the Constitution with stuff like this. The Supreme Court would have to reverse themselves entirely on the issue. And their ability to do that is constrained by legal precedent.

"There isn't any doubt that the rethugs have purposely drafted a bill that will allow the feeding tube to be removed, and the rethugs will prop up the poor woman's corpse in an effort to pack the federal court system."


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1672987

without changing the abortion laws.
They do not want to change the abortion laws in this country because they still need them for the next round of elections.
If they play this as their right to life card for this term, then the repukes can use it in the 06 elections and if they play their cards they can even use it on 08.

They (the repukes) are only about saving life if there is political gain in it for THEM!

... the great majority of people disagree with keeping Terri Schiavo "alive" and I'd be willing to bet even more disagree with Congress interfering --even those with "no opinion" or who for whatever twisted reason think her corpse should be maintained have to be horrified by this circus and what it could mean for themselves, ultimately.

... removal of feeding tubes is going on all over the world, daily. terminally ill patients who are near death reject food as a natural part of the process and die peacefully and painlessly. this would be particularly true for Terri because NO BRAIN = NO PAIN

of knowingly putting together and signing a bill that was clearly unconstitutional. Even worse, they are all proud of it.

They are the only true villans in this tragic mess.

that this has come to this...and there seems NOTHING we as the public can do about it at all. The Shrub has successfully raped the Consititution and we allowed it. God, I pray he is impeached one day.

Said the congress "saved her life" - there is a conotation there that she wants to live, and that someone is trying to kill her.

they can't vote her a cerebal cortex and that's going to be kinda obvious. We should keep the spotlight on that and let the world view day-by-day her families ghoulish wish to keep her alive.

I think it is interesting that Tom Delay keeps on going on about how she is going to starve to death. As if this has never happened before and is totally unprecedented. My son attends a daycare in my town. A child there about 10 months of age was diagnosed with Tay Sachs. At 3 years of age he had deteriorated so much that even his stomach shut down digesting what was being fed to him via a feeding tube. The doctors instructed the mother, a nurse in York County's Health Department, to stop feeding him. Finally 3 months later while in the company of this daycare teacher (because the daycare pledged to the family that a teacher/provider from this daycare would help watch and care for the little guy at his house) the boy passed away. The mother came down from upstairs where she was caring for her younger child at the time and spent time with him. It was a horrifying thing that happened to her son and family but by the time he had passed she was ready for him to pass and had accepted that death is a part of life.

This is just one situation and I know every situation is different but removing a feeding tube can be done humanely I think.

Yes, now that the precedent has been set and the Congress has become the final arbiters to adjudicate when all other judicial avenues have been closed, every person who has ever lost a court case should be appealing their cases before the Congress.

That's what Congress did in the middle of the night last night. They set themselves up as a part of the appeals process and I highly recommend everybody who has ever lost in any court in this nation to appeal to Congress for a new trial! If one person has this right, EVERY PERSON HAS THIS RIGHT!!!

In fact, if it's a criminal case, an appeal should be filed with the federal district court which has jurisdiction that Congress has set a precedent with Terri's law and every person who has ever been convicted of a crime should have the entire process begin anew with witnesses being called and prosecutors making their cases while defense attorneys defend AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL.

One do-over is a precedent and if Terri's law is not struck down as unconstitutional immediately, the federal courts should be inundated with appeals based upon the second round precedent of this law.

The Congress should also be inundated with appeals. After all, the Congress has set themselves up as a part of the appeal process with this law. Every person has 535 extra judges to appeal any case from a traffic ticket to a murder conviction.

Teach Congress a lesson. Start filing your appeals today if you have ever been involved in a court case that did not turn out the way you would like.