Has anyone addressed the racial aspect in the Schiavo/Hudson issue?

Sun Hudson, who Bush's "Futile Care Act" (also called the "No money, no foody" act) killed this past weekend, was on Medicaid like Terry Schiavo, but was not PVS. The person who was legally responsible for her medical care was completely opposed top the feeding tube being removed. But she wasn't white.

It would seem that when you are black, they can't unplug you fast enough.

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com
www.thoughtcrimes.org

for the answer.

Yes it was discussed.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3294267

and completely incapable of breathing on his own or of any recovery. He had a fatal form of dwarfism. Babies with his condition usually die within minutes of birth, due to thier underdeveloped lungs, but he was not diagnosed before birth, because his mother had no prenatal care. As a result, the hospital connected him to a respirator before his tragic condition was discovered.

Yes, his mother was opposed to removing him from life suppourt. She also felt he would recover from this incurable genetic condition and believes she was impregnated by the sun, hence little Sun Hudson's name.

This isn't political or racial.

is in a persistent vegetagive state... and from a medical persopective letting her go is the adecuate thing to do.

There is a component of race here... and a deep one... as well as social class, and those components are beyond the patients themselves or their conditions

I must disagree.

The issue being brought up (for political reasons only) by the Right is "starving" people to death. The same arguments made to allow Sun to die have been made in Terry Schiavo's case. The difference though, is that the people legally responsible for the decision made different choices.

Michael Schiavo said to remove the tube, Wanda Hudson said leave it in.

Is it right to oppose the will of those with the legal right to make the decision? The answer is "no".

As liberals we must back both Wanda AND Michael. The Hudson case shows the NeoCons at their most hypocritical. Terry lives, Sun dies. The difference between the two? One is black.

It is VERY racial and VERY political.

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com
www.thoughtcrimes.org

I have typed 10,000 words on this subject trying to convey that one message--thank you.

to highlight the hypocracy of the fundies, I'm okay with that.
I am not okay with saying he should have been kept alive (and suffering) by machines just to pacify his mother.
The right decision was made in Sun's case, he is at peace, let's use that to illustrate our case for letting Terri go and to prove we're not hypocrites.

edit sp

Yes, we must show the hypocrisy of the Right, but no, the right decision was NOT made.

First, I agree with you that *IF* Sun's medical condition was as described, then it was better to let him go. That said, it was not my decision or yours, it was his mother's.

Now, there seems to be some question of Mom's mental competence. OK, then you have a hearing, determine her mental state and act accordingly.

If she is mentally incompetent, you appoint a guardian for Sun and THEY make the decision. If she is competent, you follow her wishes.

If we override the wishes of a person's legal advocate, we are hypocrites just like the Right.

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com
www.thoughtcrimes.org

civil rights in the Sun case and that this needs to be investigated.
That said, I do not believe that he was a happy healthy bouncing baby boy who was killed by the evil doctors at the hospital because he was black. There's a lot more to this story but every time I see it addressed in DU someone invariably demonizes the hospital without bothering to learn at least some of the facts. I am all for standing up for the rights of the oppressed, I just get tired of hearing the story dressed up to provoke outrage. This is what the pukes did with Terri.
(I'm not necessarily pointing the finger at your post, just posts in general)

but understand, this is not a case of "hey, the baby's black, let's kill it." It is not that obvious, it is subtle. If this were a white child, the hospital would not have pursed the issue in the first place.

Racism is very subtle. Racists never see themselves as racist.

Jurors never think "he's black, so he must be guilty." They just assume on a subconcious level he is guilty.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

I know all about it. I just don't think having du'ers screaming "dead black baby!" and using it to show the hypocrisy of the repukes does any good. It doesn't hurt to learn the facts but if we go off half-cocked and uninformed and let our emotions take over then we're no more credible than the zealots who claim Terri is alive and well and eating cheeseburgers and doing cartwheels.

just sayin'
flame away

It's advocating for this woman, and all poor black women or poor parents, for that matter. MOREOVER, it's advocating for OUR Constitutional rights of due process.

The State has no right interferring with parental rights in this way. They are ignoring the existing laws of due process and the procedures that must be followed to terminate parental rights. It's about more gov control and less citizen's rights, yet again.

If the baby had been convicted of a capitol crime and sentenced to death (Hey, it's Texas. Being born black would be enough), the child and his mother would have gotten more in the way of due process than they did get.

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com
www.thoughtcrimes.org

Terri's tube should have stayed in. If she was a criminal, she would have a lot more rights.

Terry expressed she did not want to be kept alive. Her parents then had seven years of due process. Sun Hudson did not.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

to make decisions regarding Mrs. Schiavo's care. Ms. Hudson is clearly not all there.

While I don't believe Sun Hudson's indigent status should have been a factor in ending his care, the hospital has the obligation to go to the courts when they don't believe the parent is capable of making medical decisions for the child.

The right winger's are clearly hypocrites, but this isn't a good case to use to point it out.

I'm very familiar with this process having worked at Child Protective Services and having gone through the court process where parental rights were terminated.

This legislation violates due process. They VIOLATED that woman's rights.

It's not a matter of casually, stating, well, he appears sane and she doesn't. There is a legal process that should be followed to protect citizens' rights.

before his life supourt was discontinued.

The right winger's are clearly hypocrites, but this isn't a good case to use to point it out.

This is true only if we behave as hypocritically as they do. Otherwise it is absolutely essential we haul their asses over the coals on this.

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com
www.thoughtcrimes.org

Last I heard, her feeding tube was removed. That was on Friday. What, do you think she is a superhuman, and can live without food?

BTW, she has had the feeding tube pulled twice before, one time for 2 weeks and still managed to pull through.

You don't die within an hour when the tube is removed.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

This was just "coincidental?" :eyes: Has this ever happened to a white child? No, it hasn't.

That woman was denied due process. If they wanted to deny her, her parental rights, in any capacity, there is a legal process whereby that can be done. This law sidesteps that legal process and is unconstitutional.

Are you willing to let the State make medical decisions for your child?

BTW, this IS political. Policies and laws that violate our Constitutional rights are a political matter.

He is black what were you thinking about? And poor... not a likely repuke voter.

At least according to the Drs. he was suffocating to death. Even if he didn't suffocate to death, people with this condition who survive are severely retarded and attached to the ventilator to breathe.

the politicos running this

He was BLACK

He was NEVER going to vote for them

He WAS POOR.

This is truly the equaution they are working on... it is a terrible equaition, but that is what they are working on.

Once yuo stop thinking of the medical issues and start looking at this from their POV (Which ispolitical purely) it makes even more sense why they did not touch it with a ten foot pole. By the way, did I mention that medical care was also politized by the previeus fascists?

there are plenty of dwarfs in the world - and plenty of transplants... but not for black people, and especially not for
black babies who are on medicaid.

of dwarfism. There is no cure. His chest was tiny. The normal lungs would not fit into the chest even if he had a transplant.
http://www.madisonsfoundation.org/content/3/1/display.asp?did=576

thing to do, but HOW it was done was WRONG.

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com
www.thoughtcrimes.org

The State has NO RIGHT interferring with parental rights without due process. Which is precisely what this law does.

Interesting, that a white child has NEVER had the tube pulled. hmmmm...Texas is so progressive. :eyes:

Now, Bush does sound particularly hypocritical when he is talking how precious life is.

and send this around to the AP.

I decided to let the picture speak for itself on race. We were one of the first to post this story, DaouReport picked it up and some others. Blumenauer finally mentioned it on MSNBC, but didn't go into the details. It's hard because the mother isn't mentally stable, but that's all the more reason to make sure the baby really did have his rights protected. I don't even know that he had a separate guardian appointed. I think it went through a hospital board, a judge, and that was that.

http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/default.asp?view=plink&id=581

It's not just dwarfism - its dwarfism of just a (important) part of the body.

about your view that this should not be used as an example. Sun was doomed. Terri is doomed. What is the difference in your mind?

correct.
I have seen many times the patient (especially infants) diagnosed with one disorder only to find through development and progression that it was another. There are thousands of syndromes, and many are very difficult to diagnose with such ease and certainty as Sun's was.
I wouldn't hang your hat on that one, but "an always fatal disorder" sounds much easier to pull the plug on than one that wasn't. Isn't that one of the main arguments in the Schiavo case? His and the courts docs say she is in a persistant vegetative state. Her family's doctors say that she isn't.
Sun's mother was mentally ill.
She had no resources to research this diagnosis. She didn't have the money to have specialists from all over the country assess to make sure this hospital diagnosed Sun correctly.
The judge never appointed a guardian ad litum.
This baby's interests were not served.

Babies' brains grow and develop unlike adult brains. There is a lot more hope for a child in this condition than an adult in Terri's condition. "It's always wise to err on the side of life." ~Bush

What a fucking hypocrite! That line should go into a LTTE about this case AND this law.

Moreover, this law allows for the State to ignore parental rights. They are able to side step due process and make decisions against the parent's wishes.

It is not by accident that they tested out this law on a poor black woman.

Extremely short limbs, folds of skin, a specifically shaped head.

characteristics?

I hope you are joking. I was referring to the plasticity of a baby's brain compared to an adult brain which has decomposed.

(Skeletal Dysplasias, Achondroplasia, Jeune Syndrome , multiple exostoses, hormonal short stature, Cartilage-hair hypoplasia, , Chondroectodermal dysplasia, Ellis-van Creveld syndrome, Congenital adrenal hyperplasia, DeMorsier syndrome , Diastrophic dysplasia, Ellis-van Creveld syndrome , Growth-hormone deficiency, Hypochondrogenesis, Hypochondroplasia, Hypopituitarism, Growth-hormone deficiency, Hypopituitary dwarfism, Kniest syndrome , McCune-Albright syndrome, Mesoectodermal dysplasia , Metatropic dysplasia, Morquio syndrome , Multiple epiphyseal dysplasia, , Optic-nerve hypoplasia, Osteogenesis Imperfecta, Panhypopituitarism, Growth-hormone deficiency, Pituitary dwarfism, Primordial dwarfism, Pseudoachondroplasia, Rhizomelic chondrodysplasia punctata , Russell-Silver syndrome , Septo optic dysplasia, Spondyloepimetaphyseal dysplasia, Strudwick , Spondyloepiphyseal dysplasia congenita , Thanatophoric dwarfism, Turner syndrome, constitutional delay, other conditions)

I'll also give you a list of other syndromes you can research for those same characteristics (I'm sure some of them have them):

Aarskog syndrome
Achondroplasia
Achromatopsia
Acoustic neuroma (and benign cranial nerve tumors)
Adrenal hyperplasia
Adrenoleukodystrophy
Agenesis of corpus callosum
Aicardi syndrome
Alagille syndrome
Albinism (& (hypopigmentation)
Alopecia areata
Alstrom syndrome
Alpha-1-antitrypsin deficiency
Ambiguous genitalia
Androgen insensitivity syndrome(s)
Anorchia
Angelman syndrome
Anopthalmia
Apert syndrome
Arthrogryposis (amyoplasia)
Ataxia (Friedreich ataxia, spinocerebellar ataxias, ataxia telangiectasia, essential tremor, spastic paraplegia, other)
Autism / Asperger syndrome
Bardet-Biedl syndrome
Basal cell carcinoma (Gorlin syndrome)
Batten disease (neuronal ceroid lipofuscinosis)
Beckwith-Wiedemann syndrome
Blepharophimosis
Blind (vision anomalies)
Brain Conditions / Disorders
Branchio-Oto-Renal (BOR) syndrome
Canavan
Cancer: (ataxia telangiectasia, basal cell nevus, brain /spine, breast, colon / bowel, leukemia / lymphoma, lung, melanoma / skin, multiple endocrine neoplasia, oral, ovarian, pancreas, prostate, retinoblastoma, testicular, von Hippel-Lindau, xeroderma pigmentosa)
Cardiofaciocutaneous syndrome
Celiac sprue (dermatitis herpiformis, gluten intolerance)
Charcot-Marie-Tooth (peroneal muscular atrophy, hereditary motor sensory neuropathy)
CHARGE association
Chromosome anomalies - trisomy, deletions, inversions, duplications, translocations, 4p- (Wolf-Hirshhorn), 5 (cri-du-chat, 5p-), 7, 8, 9 (trisomy 9, 9p-), 11 (11q, 11;22), 13 (trisomy 13, Patau), 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 (18q-, 18p-, ring 18, trisomy 18, tetrasomy 18p, Edwards), 20, 21 (Down syndrome, trisomy 21), 22, X & Y
Cleft lip and/or cleft palate
Cockayne syndrome (xeroderma pigmentosum)
Coffin-Lowry syndrome
Coffin-Siris syndrome
Congenital heart defects
Connective tissue conditions (Marfan syndrome, pseudoxanthoma elasticum (PXE),cutis laxa, dwarfism, skeletal dysplasia, Ehlers Danlos syndrome, hyperextensible joints, Beals syndrome, congenital contractural arachnodactyly, other)
Cooley anemia (thalassemia major, beta-thalassemia)
Conjoined twins
Cornelia de Lange syndrome
Costello syndrome
Craniofacial conditions (Apert, Crouzon, Treacher Collins, Goldenhar, hemifacial microsomia), Nager Miller, neurofibromatosis, ear anomalies, other)
Cri-du-Chat (5p-)
Cystic fibrosis
Cystinosis
Cystinuria
Dandy-Walker syndrome
Deaf / hard of hearing
Dermatological (skin) conditions
Developmental delay / mental retardation
Diabetes
DiGeorge syndrome
Down syndrome (Trisomy 21, see chromosome syndromes)
Dubowitz syndrome
Dwarfism/ short stature (achondroplasia, Jeune, multiple exostoses, hormonal short stature, other forms)
Dysautonomia
Dystonia
Ectodermal dysplasia
Ehlers Danlos syndrome (& cutis laxa)
Endocrine Conditions (adrenal, androgen, diabetes, thyroid, ovaries, other)
Epidermolysis bullosa
Facial anomalies, disfigurement (craniofacial, cleft)
Factor V Leiden (thrombophilia)
Fanconi anemia
Fetal alcohol syndrome and effects
FG syndrome
Fragile-X syndrome (Martin-Bell)
Friedreich ataxia
Freeman Sheldon syndrome (craniocarpotarsal dystrophy)
Galactosemia
Gardner syndrome (intestinal polyposis)
Gastroenterology conditions (stomach, small intestine, large intestine, colon)
Gaucher disease
Glycogen storage disease
Goldenhar syndrome (hemifacial microsomia)
Gorlin syndrome (basal cell carcinoma, nevi)
Hallermann Streiff syndrome
Hearing problems
Heart conditions (congenital heart, adult cardiovascular)
Hemochromatosis (iron overload)
Hemophilia
Hemoglobinopathies
Hereditary hemorrhagic telangiectasia (HHT, Osler-Weber-Rendu syndrome)
Hereditary spastic paraplegia (familial spastic paraparesis)
Hermansky-Pudlak syndrome
Hirschsprung anomaly
Holoprosencephaly
Huntington disease
Hydrocephalus (neural tube defects, hydranencephaly)
Ichthyosis (also, epidermolytic hyperkeratosis, multiple sulfatase deficiency, keratoderma, Refsum disease, other)
Immune deficiencies
Incontinentia pigmenti
Infant death
Infertility
Intestinal problems (gastrointestinal, illium, colon, bowel)
Joseph disease
Joubert syndrome
Kabuki syndrome
Kidney conditions
Klinefelter syndrome (see chromosome syndromes)
Klippel-Feil syndrome
Klippel-Trenaunay syndrome
Langer-Giedion syndrome
Laurence-Moon-Biedl syndrome (Laurence-Moon Bardet-Biedl syndrome)
Leber Optic Atrophy
Leigh disease
Lesch-Nyhan syndrome
Leukodystrophy
Limb anomalies
Lissencephaly
Liver conditions (biliary atresia, Alagille syndrome, alpha-1 antitrypsin, tyrosinemia, neonatal hepatitis, Wilson disease)
Lowe syndrome
Lung / pulmonary conditions
Lymphedema
Maffucci syndrome(Ollier, multiple cartilaginous enchondromatosis)
Malignant hyperthermia
Maple syrup urine disease
Marinesco-Sjogren Syndrome
Marfan syndrome
Menkes syndrome
Mental retardation / developmental delay
Metabolic conditions (biotinidase deficiency, carbohydrate deficient glycoprotein syndrome (CDGS), Crigler-Najjar syndrome, diabetes insipidus, Fabry, galactosemia, glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase (G6PD), fatty acid oxidation disorders, glutaric aciduria, hypophosphatemia, Krabbe, lactic acidosis, lysosomal storage diseases, mannosidosis, maple syrup urine, mitochondrial, neuro-metabolic, organic acidemias, PKU, purine, pyruvate dehydrogenase deficiency, urea cycle conditions, vitamin D deficient rickets)
Miscarriage, stillbirth, infant death
Mitochondrial conditions (Alpers, Barth, beta-oxidation defects, carnitine deficiency, CPEO, Kearns-Sayre, lactic acidosis, Leber optic neuropathy, Leigh, LCAD, Luft, MCAD, MAD, glutaric aciduria, MERRF, MNGIE, NARP, Pearson, PHD, SCAD, NADH-CoQ reductase, succinate dehydrogenase, Complex III, Complex IV, COX, Complex V, other)
Moebius syndrome
Mucolipidosis, type IV (ML4)
Mucopolysaccharidosis (Hunter syndrome, Hurler syndrome, Maroteaux-Lamy syndrome, Sanfilippo syndrome, Scheie syndrome, Morquio syndrome, other)
Multiple hereditary exostoses
Muscular dystrophy / atrophy (neuromuscular conditions including: Duchenne, facioscapulohumeral, Charcot Marie Tooth, spinal muscular atrophy, other)
Myotonic dystrophy
Nager & Miller syndromes
Nail Patella syndrome
Narcolepsy
Neurologic conditions (neuro-metabolic, neurogenetics, neuromuscular, CADASIL, Huntington disease, other)
Neurofibromatosis (von Recklinghausen)
Neuromuscular conditions
Niemann-Pick disease
Noonan syndrome
Opitz syndromes
Organic acidemias
Osler-Weber-Rendu syndrome
Osteogenesis imperfecta
Oxalosis & hyperoxaluria
Pallister-Hall syndrome
Pallister-Killian syndrome (tetrasomy 12p, Teschler-Nicola syndrome)
Periodic paralysis
Phenylketonuria (PKU)
Polycystic kidney disease
Popliteal pterygium syndrome
Porphyria
Prader-Willi syndrome
Progeria (Werner, Hutchinson-Gilford, Cockayne, Rothmond-Thomson syndromes)
Proteus syndrome
Prune belly syndrome
Pseudoxanthoma elasticum (PXE)
Psychiatric conditions
Refsum disease
Retinal degeneration
Retinitis pigmentosa (retinal degenerative diseases, Usher syndrome)
Retinoblastoma
Rett syndrome
Robinow syndrome
Rubinstein-Taybi syndrome
Russell-Silver syndrome
Schizencephaly
Sex chromosome anomalies (47,XXY, 47,XXX, 45,X and variants, 47,XYY)
Shwachman syndrome
Sickle cell anemia
Skeletal dysplasia
Skin / dermatological conditions
Smith-Lemli-Opitz syndrome (RHS syndrome)
Smith-Magenis syndrome (17p-)
Sotos syndrome
Spina bifida (myelomeningocele, neural tube defects)
Spinal muscular atrophy (Werdnig-Hoffman, Kugelberg-Welander)
Stickler / Marshall syndrome
Stillbirth
Sturge-Weber
Tay-Sachs disease / other (dysautonomia, dystonia, Gaucher, Niemann Pick, Canavan, Bloom)
Thalassemia (Cooley anemia)
Thrombocytopenia absent radius syndrome
Tourette syndrome
Treacher Collins syndrome (craniofacial)
Trisomy (21, 18, 13, 9, other, see chromosome syndromes)
Tuberous sclerosis
Turner syndrome
Twins / triplets / multiple births
Unknown disorders
Urea cycle conditions
Urologic / kidney conditions
Usher syndrome
VATER association
Velo-cardio-facial syndrome (Shprintzen, DiGeorge, 22q deletion)
Visual impairment / blind
Von Hippel-Lindau syndrome
Waardenburg syndrome
Weaver syndrome
Werner syndrome
Williams syndrome
Wilson disease (hepatolenticular degeneration)
Xeroderma pigmentosum
Zellweger syndrome
Unknown disorders

Basically, she could last 50 years, just as the husband claimed during the malpractice trial. According to the Drs. the baby was suffocating to death. Terri was not suffocating to death. So, I am not sure what do you mean by "that baby had a better chance than Terri". A chance for what?
Her condition is not terminal.
Anyhow, it's not about the race. It's about the law Bush signed, which allows Drs. to make a decision. They were going to do it to a white guy as well, but, the facility agreed to take him in.
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/3094699

And the white guy lived, didn't he? Even though he is on medicare.

Have they ever pulled the plug on a white person? No, lizzy, they haven't. Does it push you out of your comfort zone to acknowledge racism?

And overall, considering there is a disporportionate number of blacks in poverty, you can be certain this law will disproportionately affect them.

in ALL cases.

The hospital made the decision over the wishes of the mother, the legal guardian. First time it's ever happened. It may have been made based on ability to pay, and race. Don't you think that deserves at least as much attention as Schiavo?

Bush was in Crawford. Yet, he flies to Washing ton to save a white woman. Somehow, they couldn't stand up for this mother's rights when the state of Texas decided the child must die.

Again, if Mom was crazy, the court should have appointed a guardian. It didn't.

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com
www.thoughtcrimes.org

That the hospital "out of the kindness and goodness of its heart" hired the mother an attorney who did NOT file an appeal to the decision.
Talk about being judge, jury and executioner.

In the other thread...another poster said the reason he didn't file the appeal was because the hospital did not pay his bill.

And the mother. Two separate attorneys. That's the way it's done. I'd like to know who the hell that attorney was too, he ought to be disbarred. Seems like there's a real problem with shit attorneys in Texas, based on the horrible job they do on death penalty cases.

This such a violation of civil rights and due process.

shifting and squirming in thier 'compassionate' irrationalism.

If one were to listen to Rush, Fox or any of the rest of the new MSM, it's all about how he was awarded 1.1 million so he's already greedy even after turning down another 7 figures. Or how he's abused her, or about the video slection of a few seconds each that were taken from months of taping for the right moment... or any other excuse they can to try to get people to think this poor woman trapped in a shell that was her body that is too broken to know that she's supposed to be dead.

There is an identical case in Texas where the state is stepping in to pull the plug, yet we hear not a word about it because he's a poor male and the state is pulling the plug because he's poor.

One or two said race had nothing to do with it. :eyes:

It's not a coincidence that the first time this law was used to pull the plug on a child, against the parent's wishes, was black. One need to simply look at Texas record on executing black males and other racial disparities to show how racist that state is.

That woman had not had her parental rights terminated, they denied her due process and trampled her rights and used this law to do so. That law is unconstitutional and should be struck from the books. Too bad some pro bono attorney wont take her case to the courts and challenge that law.

No poverty, except Liberal Enemies of the State.

No crime, except Liberal Enemies of the State.

Etc.

Don't expect to see this sort of disloyal speculation on Our Beloved Leader's Corporate TV Pravda.

:puke:

He gave the best dissenting speech in the chambers I thought. He asked the simple question about where the compassion was when he brought up healthcare disparities for minorities. Where was it whenever he and his fellow dems offered up issues of poverty and homelessness on the house floor. Where was the respect for life then? I'll search for some text. it was short but right on mark.


I think this might be a much better route to consider. He felt it was basically the difference between individual and collective issues as well. Why the individual white woman when a immense number of people are dying premature deaths from preventable illnesses and the poor resources of Amerika's second tier or de facto health system used most often by the working poor.


Julia Carson from my former district also pointed out that she was called from her church service to get on the plane for this vote. She laid the irony on pretty thick.

He's my rep and I called his office over this very issue.

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com
www.thoughtcrimes.org

This post: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3301536


http://www.kliljedahl.net

For me, what's been missing from the Baby Sun story is his mother's lack of prenatal care and no mention of a father, which suggested to me that Sun's death had more to do with poverty than race.

Was the child brain dead? WHY was it futile--because there was NO hope of him ever breathing on his own? Was there a medical basis on which to give up hope? Or had his insurance simply run out?

So maybe Sun would have died at the age of three rather than the age of six months. Was he deprived of those three years because his mom didn't have the scratch for the extra care and equipment he'd need?

I understand that there was another patient in Sun's hospital, 68 years his senior, who has recently been moved to a nursing home. Who footed the bill for that?

:headbang:
rocknation

The mother didn't think she needed prenatal care because the SUN was going to take care of everything. However, even if she did had prenatal care, the only option would be an abortion. The child was not brain dead, but his condition is normally fatal. People with this condition normally do not survive. Very few that do need extensive medical care, severely retarded and can not breathe without a ventilator.

That's more consciousness then Terri has. You've decided breathing is the ultimate criteria of life. That legal decision has already been made. Two of three, brain & heart, lungs & heart. Neither was more "legally dead" than the other. The difference being the hospital made the choice in one case, which you support. But a family member made it another, which you don't support.

Don't you see the hypocrisy of it? And that its bassackwards to boot?

Maybe Sun would have to spend the rest of his life hooked up to machinery, but lots of Aemricans are doing that. If his plug was pulled for financial reasons, his civil rights were violated.

:headbang:
rocknation

my commment was lizzy specific.

Baby Sun's rights were violated because he didn't have a guardian appointed, the lawyer didn't appeal, and this is the first case of its kind. That money, and even race, may have played a part just makes it worse, but isn't all there is to it either.

The hospital wouldn't have turn baby Sun's life support off if another facility agreed to take him in. If the mother was able to take care of him at home, I presume they would have let her. In Terri's case, her parents were willing take her in and take care of her. Yet, still, she must die, because her husband says so.
What exactly makes baby Sun's life any better than Terrri's? Maybe he would have made it to 3 years or something, on a ventilator, and severely retarded. He also apparently was suffering pain, which Terri' presumably wasn't. Why are you crying over this baby but think Terri gotta die?

Hospitals will not accept critically ill patients hooked up to life support IF it is a lateral or downward move.
There isn't another hospital that could have provided him a higher level of care than he was already receiving.
Moving a critically ill patient involves a high degree of risk to the patient and the ONLY time they will even consider it is when a higher level of care is needed and not available where they are. Texas Childrens was aware of that and I am sure when the legislation passed, that Bush was aware of that as well.
This is why there wasn't another facility willing to take him.
You have to also factor that with available beds during flu/RSV season in Texas. In 2003 there wasn't a pediatric ICU bed AVAILABLE anywhere in Texas. All pediatric patients had to be flown out of state for care.
There are many factors at play in a transfer that you just aren't comprehending including financial reimbursement and a likelihood of a lawsuit that a hospital isn't going to take.

Yet, still, she must die, because her husband says so.

No, because TERRY said so. The court has accepted that Terry expressed a desire NOT to be kept in this state before she had the heart attack. The baby did no such thing.

What exactly makes baby Sun's life any better than Terrri's?

No one has stated one life is above the other. Terry's folks had MULTIPLE days in court to argue their case and the court found in favor of her husband that he was carrying out TERRY'S expressed desire.

Maybe he would have made it to 3 years or something, on a ventilator, and severely retarded. He also apparently was suffering pain, which Terri' presumably wasn't. Why are you crying over this baby but think Terri gotta die?

BECAUSE TERRY HERSELF EXPRESSED THE DESIRE TO DIE IF SHE WOUND UP IN THIS CONDITION.

It has taken about seven YEARS to get the feeding tube removed so she can die according to her wishes. Sun Hudson is dead in a matter of WEEKS.

If Terry Schiavo was in Texas and black, she would have been dead in 1999 when Bush signed the Texas Futile Care Act.

to take care of her.

of "she expressed an he desire that if she wound up in a the state she is currently in she wanted to be allowed to die" are you not understanding?

Terry's parents are acting contrary to her expressed wishes. Are you saying that this is OK?

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

and it didn't occur to the hospital that she MIGHT have a competency issue? Or would taking the proper steps to find out have cut into their profit margin, too?

:headbang:
rocknation

incompetent, the judge would have had to issue an order of protection for the child which would have remanded the baby to state custody since he was hospitalized.
The state cannot order DNR's or cease life support on children in their custody because of the appearance of doing so for financial reasons.
There was a very deliberate reason the hospital bypassed this. They "hired" the mother a lawyer to represent her wishes.
This lawyer did NOT file an appeal even though it was clearly the mother's wishes.

Okey dokey, lizzy. You are coming up with some real doozies.

violate her civil rights, if, in fact they were violated.
Again, I don't appreciate you making something up, when I never said it.
In fact, I simply explained baby Sun's condition (as I understand it) and why his mother didn't have prenatal care.

keith.olbermann@msnbc.com

motherf#ckers.

I believe that race definitely is playing a part in the very sad Hudson case. I grieve so much for that mother and her child.

And I'm angered that the law Bush signed as Governor of Texas is responsibile for that baby's breathing tube being disconnected against the mother's wishes.

This is how we promote a "culture of life?" I thought parents were given the authority to decide health matters for their underaged childen--not a hopsital.

It's disgusting. Where's that bastard Tom Delay when you need him?