Do you feel sorry for Terri's parents/siblings?

I don't.

I'm sorry -- I just don't.

They are helping to keep this circus going. And I don't like the way they keep trashing the husband and the judges they don't agree with.

I don't like the way they are trying to manipulate the public.

And who is paying their legal bills?

I think they're delusional about the condition that their daughter is in.

While I do not think they are rational, I feel compassion for her parents.

Kind of like Xians, beleive although there's no evidence to support it, although all reality says it's not so. I really feel for them but they need to accept reality.

http://www.kliljedahl.net

--sadly, that is exactly what the James Dobsons and Tom DeLays and William Frists are providing.

They have to accept the fact that Terri will not get up and walk out under own power -- never really smile at them again. And, while they may be deluding themselves - they are living in a delusional world.

This Quixotic campaign to keep Terri going has become their only purpose in life. They are to be pitied.

I guess I'm just a Jimmie Carter-Hubert Humphry Democrat.

Lots of soldiers die every day in a meaningless war - imagine if those parents wouldn't accept the truth of the matter?

parents of soldiers wouldn't accept the administratiuon's "truth of the matter."

Her parents are not rational. That is understandable. But the rest of the country can make the choice to use rational thought to come to a solution to the central issue in this case. We have the option to avoid being caught up in emotions.

and the inevitable result of Terri's predicament will be that much harder for them because of it.

I feel the deepest pity, even if I despise what they are doing.

The major split between the husband and the parents happened when they expected to receive some of the money received for Terry in the malpractice suit. All of Terry's went to her care or to attorney fees from what I've been led to believe. Since the 'cause of brain death' in this case was potassium deficiency, due to voluntary vomiting, due to an eating disorder, due to her parents (most experts think that the major factor in the development of eating disorders is family dynamics, more so than environmental/societal pressures or genetics)...maybe the malpractice lawsuit should have been against THEM, and not the physician who obviously missed the subtle signs of bulimia. I FEEL NO SYMPATHY ANY LONGER FOR THESE GHASTLY HUMAN BEINGS.

...rapture right. You know, denial is a part of the grieving process and that process was "arrested" when they found strong support of their denial from the loony rightwing nuts. So, yes, I see them as victims of this whole matter also.

when reality really sinks in, as it must somehow, they are going to be in so much worse pain than if they had just mourned her at the time that she (the person she was) actually died. And if the indescribably evil fuckers exploiting them are allowed to convince them Terri was "murdered," then they'll be in a state of rage and horror that will be with them til the end of their lives.

keep trying to allege that he somehow abused her and was responsible for her condition by an attempted murder. These people make me sick.

I dont blame her parents for not handling this well, I blame the many people not related to Terri who have encouraged them and exploited them. Pro-lifers, lawyers, politicians etc.

They are the ones who acted out of malice, greed, and hate.

I think Terri's parents are functionally insane because they cannot cope with the tragedy, and everyone around them encourages them to get more hystrical rather than helping them cope.

Until they can deal with the loss, they can not possibly be rational.

sit and spin I say

They need to get a grip, find a way to grieve and move on, though.

I just wish they'd let their daughter die w/ some dignity.

They have gone over the edge (helped along by the rabid fundies) and have lost touch with reality. But their pain is real, and I wouldn't wish their position on my worst enemies.

They are creating a living hell for everyone involved. This isn't about Terri, it is about them!

Terri is gone - she is a security blanket for them.

these parents have had fifteen years to brace themselves for the inevitable. The courts have ruled against them forever. So I'm with you. I don't really feel sorry for them. Although I feel sorry that they are losing a child. Still may not make sense.

thanks for the clarification.

At first, I felt badly for them because their greif was hijacked by right-to-life groups and used for their own political purpose (I hope that people don't believe that these fools actually CARE about Terri as a person...)

But now, I don't feel one iota of pitty, sympathy, sadness, empathy, or anything else. THEY are actively using THEIR DAUGHTER to further a political purpose, their political beliefs, their personal beliefs.

Sorry. If they were so greif stricken, they'd be holed up in their house, crying their eyes out...not parading in front of every camera and microphone that they can find.

THis is about control. Utterly about control. Any issue they had regarding their daughter's care has long since been replaced with the need to 'get the last word' over her husband, to get control over their daughter, and to 'win'

I wish they could realize this isn't a game. No one wins here. No one comes out ahead. This is their daughter, and they're treating her and her case like a one-trick-pony...or, pardon the gross metaphor, but they're treating her no better than the right-to-lifer's who parade photos of aborted and deformed fetuses. They have NO respect for those fetuses/babies...they're only concerned with the political gains that can be made by appealing to basal, lower-level emotions (baby=good therefore dead baby=bad)

They're publicizing what should be (and should have been all along) a private issue that stays within the family. They're whoring her and her condition for political and religious reasons.

That's sickening.

And they're actively participaing in it.

Therefore, no sympathy for me. NONE.

They've whored themselves and their daughter out to any wingnut that can get them in front of a camera. They've cried on cue while sending their children and posse - including scumbag Randall Terry - out to smear Michael Schiavo and anyone else that doesn't kiss their behinds and give in to them.

All the times they accused Michael Schiavo of being selfish, it turns out they're the one trying to reap rewards. They'll be gin-u-wine martyrs on the Jeebus Freak dinner circuit. They'll be "700 Suckers Club" regulars.

They're a couple of control-freak Huns who have acted willing to distort, manipulate, lie and slander to get their way. Terri's probably somewhere in limbo thinking, "So close, I'm almost free of those two once and for all..."

I thought they were of German descent. Please leave ethnic slurs out of it, as (1) AKAIK the Schindlers aren't descended from the Huns and (2) those of us who are should not be compared to the Schindlers, as they are clearly lower than worm shit.

I want them to get help and to get healthy.

I oppose the power-mongering assholes advantaging themselves of their weakness.

I can't imagine any grief greater than the death of your child.

I think they're in denial, and are being spoon fed by the RW nutsos.

But I feel for Michael as well, the smear job is despicable.

There's no one winning in this thing, they all lose Terri. (But I agree with the right to deny medical treatment and refuse life support.)

Who is Michael Schiavo?
Critics call him
a murderer; supporters say he’s a loving husband
By Kerry Sanders
Correspondent
NBC News
Updated: 7:58 p.m. ET March 23, 2005

PINELLAS PARK, Fla. - He's been accused of being a money-grubbing, wife-beating attempted murderer. But before the conflict and all the publicity, Michael Schiavo lived a quiet life with his wife, Terri.

Five years into their marriage, an eating disorder led to a chemical imbalance that caused a sudden heart attack, resulting in her medical condition. Schiavo insists he was — and is — a loving husband.

"I never thought I'd have to prove myself to the world," he says.

Back in 1991, Michael was pushing for his wife's rehabilitation. He even studied nursing to help with her care.

Then Michael sued her doctors and more than $1 million was awarded for medical negligence. After legal fees, $700,000 paid for Terri's medical care and $300,000 went to Michael for the impact on his marriage. Now, 12 years later, reportedly all but $40,000 is gone.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7278663/

I just do feel for the parents, b/c their denial is so strong. I guess, it's more that I pity them.

And I really feel for what Michael's going through, because it's a travesty.

Guilty regardless of proven innocent.

And to hear fuckwad Tom DeLay calling people murderers today. GRrrrrrrrrrrrrr

I feel sorry for them in that they are obviously having a hard time working through their grief. I would feel sorry for anyone whose child had such a trauma. It's a terrible tragedy and I understand how and why they've had trouble dealing with it. That's actually even more reason why they shouldn't be able to decide what happens to her - they are obviously biased and what T.S. would want is what should be done, not what her parents want if it is in conflict.

I'm not sorry for them in that they are slandering M.S. and that they're turning her into a sideshow freak.

It's harder for a parent to lose a child than the reverse. In the big scheme of things we are supposed to outlive our parents. I do feel for them for their loss.

I also know that grief makes one do things they would not ordinarily do.

If anything, I feel sorry for them MORESO that they are being used by a political agenda and a religious agenda that is not getting them the counseling they need both to cope with their loss and with whatever contribution they may have had to that loss.

IF THERE WERE any issues of abuse, they certainly didn't bring them up for several years...meaning either they IGNORED abuse given that they lived in the same building as Michael and Terri OR they manufactured those allegations.

I would lean toward the latter since there WAS a malpractice case in this matter and if abuse had contributed to Terri's condition...knowing what I know about malpractice defense and the resources available to insurance companies, I would find it hard to believe that would be overlooked by the insurance industry. They have a record of every hospital visit..they had a right to examine her and raise all of that as an issue in her defense were it present.

:hi:

If they loved her as much as they proclaim they would respect her wishes. They forced their daughter to undergo needless indignities for 15 years.

After 15 years of access to the medical facts about Terri's condition the Schindler family have intentionally chosen to believe otherwise. That's their right, but I have no sympathy for willing fools.

They have admitted teasing her as a child and calling her fat. Now they feel guilty and are acting like fools. If they wanted to do the right thing, they would honor her wishes and let her go.

One of the most difficult and stressful things that can happen to a parent is to lose a child. It probably is even more difficult when your child is in Terri Schiavo's condition. Although she is not really there, that fact that her body still lives makes it easy for them to convince themselves that she still there. In many ways, it would have been easier for them had she simply died immediately after her heart attack.

I also feel sorry for Michael Schiavo. According to the records, he was probably a loving husband who ultimately came to the logical conclusion that his wife's case was hopeless. It is wrong to knowingly and falsely accuse him of domestic violence. Since many of us will ultimately be responsible for providing care at some point for a loved one and some of us may even have the unpleasant task of deciding when to end medical care, we should think about how we would feel if others wrongly accused us of abuse.

they keep showing those horrid videos? Every time I see them I wince.

I did. But I don't anymore.

but their antics kept chipping away at my pity and good feelings for them, now there's none left.

But I feel sorry for them. They are in a parallel universe and have never had closure for their grief. Burying a child is not the normal order of things. It is far more traumatic then burying a parent, or even a sibling or a spouse. And now, they are being used (and psychologically) abused by exploitive satanic demons (DeLay, Frist, Santorum).

For whatever reason, they are trying to hold on to their baby. I think the congress and the religious right are using them, giving them false hope.

I just don't have any sympathy for them.

They're being taken advantage of. I honestly don't think that they're receiving the proper information. I think their collective chains pulled by the fundies who are informing them.

Now--they're active participants, seeking out every camera, microphone, and reporter in eyesight.

They've long passed being 'used'. They're active participants now and have been for some time.

Their concern, IMO, these days isn't their daughter, or her care, or even her life. At this point, they're out to "win". They've surpassed being greif-stricken and easily manipulated. They're the manipulators now. THEY'RE the heartless beings they supposedly oppose in voice (but emulate in practice).

This isn't about Terri anymore with them. This is about "winning". This is about "Getting the last word". This is about CONTROL.

I'm expecting the mother to start fainting on cue any minute now -- a la Marislyses.

Every TIME that girl went on camera I'd tell my mom "I give her five minutes before she faints" and whaddya know--I overestimated EVERY TIME. Three seconds in and BOOM...faint.

I saw an interview this weekend about Terri Shiavo--I was out of town and couldn't comment on DU about it---but anyways, this reporter was talking outside the hospice and Terri's parents were behind the reporter, talking to someone else and laughing. THe reporter went up to them and was talking to them and as soon as he appeared, the laughter stopped and the tears started flowing. It was SO transparent and so sickening.

she was young (18?), not very bright, and I'm sure had had it drilled into her from birth that Castro was the devil. She probably honestly believed he would boil and eat the kid.

of being surrounded by people who are giving you the wrong information and false hope, I'd think that you'd be a little disillusioned, too. They're puppets for the right, and IMO, they're just as lost as any of us.

They have made the choice to continue to be part and parcel of the extreme right-wing right-to-life political groups. THEY choose to hang with these fools. THEY choose to disregard medical information. THEY choose to continue this UTTER waste of time, money, and energy. THEY make horrendous accusations against Michael Schiavo. THEY parade in front of cameras. THEY are actively doing these things.

False hope is one thing. Alligning yourselves with masters of distortion and manipulation is another. They're revling in this. They have gone past having concern for their daughter. They are engaged in a war against their son-in-law and this hasn't become an issue of Terri's right to live or die, but their personal vendetta against Michael and their need to 'win' in this situation.

They're puppets alright, but puppets who are actively participating and lapping up every little bone the right throws at them.

They're not just in denial. I've seen denial in both family members of those suffering with terminal illness/disease and in patient suffering from terminal illness/disease. I've NEVER seen a family member or a patient act as these people have done. They're not in denial about their daughter's health---they're in denial that they're not in control anymore.

This is a control issue pure and simple.

Simple denial doesn't cause people to salivate at the sight of a running camera or live satellite feed.

Are you watching these people? They believe it. They believe that Michael Schiavo is trying to murder their daughter. They have been conned. They aren't doing this to make life miserable for Mr. Schiavo, their minds have been so screwed up by these people that they believe that Michael Schiavo is trying to murder Terri Schiavo. Pity them. They've been emotionally manipulated.

Although I used to...I don't anymore. They have aligned themselves with people who are KNOWN to manipulate facts and disregard factual medical evidence if it disagrees with their extreme agenda.

Sorry. "They know not what they do" is not an excuse for these folks. They're old enough to know better.

I do agree that they've been manipulated. Their greif and sadness and denial were hijacked by groups with a far more sinister agenda. However, they CONTINUE to align themselves with these people. They CONTINUE to disregard legitimate, proven medical science and information.

That's beoynd denial. That's ignorance.

As I've stated before---I've worked with familes of people with terminal illnesses/diseases. I've worked with families whose loved ones are in permanent vegitative states. Whose loved ones will NEVER regain consciousness. Whose loved ones are only "living" via respirators, ventillators, heart-lung machines. Familes who cannot accept that death is imminent. Families who cannot accept that death has come.

But none of the families I've worked with have acted in the extreme way that Terri Schiavo's parents have. None of them have actively blocked next-of-kin or advanced directives that outline when life support is to be discontinued, or started at all. They will disagree, and say "oh no, she'll come back some day" and ask that their loved one not have the 'plug pulled', but they allow it. THey don't go parading in front of cameras, setting up a virtual war-zone outside of the hospice service, getting funding and support from right-to-life and far right-wing groups. They suffer through their denial as a natural part of the death and dying process, and hopefully move on.

There are many people who BELIEVE that abortion is murder, and will try prevent ANY WOMAN seeking an abortion for ANY REASON because they believe it's murder. That doesn't make their thinking right. That doesn't make their opinion right, and it doesn't give them the right to interfere in otherwise personal medical decisions.

The parents aren't her next of kin. Her husband is. The parents don't have legal rights through marriage. Her husband does. They're overstepping their bounds and as much as some say it's because they love their daughter and don't want her to die (which is an inevetability for all of us at some point), the issue is CONTROL. Just as right-to-lifers who protest outside of clinics say that abortion is MURDER, and they don't want innocent babies to DIE, the underlying issue in the whole mess is CONTROL over another person's body and rights.

If they're so...gullible to be so manipulated for so long, then I have SERIOUS issues regarding THEIR mental state and if they're so gullibile to be so manipulated and played, then they should be declared incompitent to care for her. Obviously they're not in a right mind if they can be so blind as to not see how they're being used by the extreme right. If they're that blind, stupid, naieve, gullible, manipulated, etc, then they have NO right to demand the right to make decisions on behalf of their daughter or ANYONE ELSE, since they're such simple folks with little brain function themselves.

that the Schindlers know that their lawyers and backers manipulate facts? To them, they are hearing the truth--they've never heard a balanced opposition.

and maybe they are.

But I haven't seen any reason to think so.

that they're hellbent on whoring with the fundamentalists?

IF they didn't want to whore with the fundies, then they would publically disavow any affiliation with them. They would refuse any funding they offer. They wouldn't have fundie-based lawyers working on their behalf. They wouldn't work with and for the fundies that they are working with and for.

that they've been surrounded by fundie whackjobs who are giving them wrong information, thinking that they have a chance to heal her? You don't think the fundies would stoop that low, and you don't think that the Schindlers would let them, on a subconscious level?

They have been surrounded by these people for EIGHT YEARS. For EIGHT years, the fundies have pushed this down their throats. They haven't heard anything else. These people are clueless. Listen to them; they actually think this woman can be cured of a LIQUEFED BRAIN. Something is wrong upstairs.

I don't really know what the Schindlers think. They admitted in court that they would defy Terri's wishes even if they KNEW she didn't want life support.

I don't know why the fundies you suggest are pushing this on them are responsible for themselves, but the Schindlers aren't.

It wasn't like they swarmed him at some point.

As for the life support comment, these people have been through hell in the last fifteen years; they have been told that she can be cured and they believe it. I heartily disagree with them, and that's all I can say.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this point. I think these people have been fucked with mentally for eight years. IMO, clear thinking parents who have a good grip on this situation would almost 100% of the time let their child go. I don't think these people have a goddamn clue. I think they're living in a fantasy world.

IMO, this family cares for their daughter in some sick, twisted way. I don't think the politicians and/or fundies do.

then they have no business taking care of a severely ill woman. None.

If their minds are so easily swayed as to think that no brain matter = chance of rollerskating next week, then they really need to be checked into a facility themselves.

Believe it or not, I do agree with you, especially your last 2 sentences. I just don't think they're necessarily innocent pawns in this matter. I think that they've gone beyond BEING manipulated to ALLOWING the manipulation to continue.

At any point they could say "You know...we'd just like to deal with this in a not-so-public way"---and they could still go to court and do this and that without the media circus that they're ACTIVELY CAUSING. But they don't. They CONTINUE to allign with these people and that not only makes me (like you) question their mental state, but question THEIR motives and THEIR agenda--and I think both (motivation & agenda) go far beyond their daughter living or dying. I think now it's about control and 'winning'--or more likely, not letting Michael "win".



This is sick all around.

They have never seriously considered a doctor who says anything but "Terri can recover."

They don't have any facts, and they are unaware of that. If you listen to them, they don't have a clue. Of COURSE they aren't fit to take care of her--that's why I support the removal of her feeding tube and her peaceful passing.

... to tell the GOP FREAK SHOW TO FUCK THE FUCK OFF.

As long as they're content to ride along with this extremist freakshow, I've got no sympathy for them.

treated her when she was still viable. This is not about Terri - it is about their need to control.

It is important to remember that this is the family unit that spawned a bulimic child. Don't misunderstnd, I am not making light of bulimia because it is so tragic. However, certain types of parenting seems to be much more likely to create the environment where this disease takes hold. These parent's need to control her started when she was a small child and continues until this moment. This is not about love - they are on a mission. They have never given a moments thought to why they are so obcessed with the need to continue dominion over her.

If she dies they may have to face themselves. Dysfunctional families would certainly want to put this off as long as possible. Thank god they are not my parents.

they had so many other ways of doing this experience and this is what they chose to experience. their lesson to learn

I feel sorry for them that they are so deluded. And that they couldn't let her go years ago like they should have. and that they will have to deal with the karma/atonement for their actions against their daughter.

Someone get them some help in dealing with their long-term grief!

On edit:
Maybe a law should be passed, just for them, to get them help!

They have done exactly the thing that Terri did not want. Terri made her wishes known, her husband has tried mightily to honor those wishes, yet her family has ignored and submarined those wishes at every possible point along the last many years. And they have inflicted the very indignities Terri wished to avoid, by magnitudes of 1,000s.

This is NOT there call, it never was.

The ONLY good that comes out of this circus, is that millions of people will now realize that it's prudent to put your 'end-of-life' wishes in writing, so that no living person can usurp those wishes.

No matter how much they want to, no matter what reason. Period.

either. The parents are powerful vindictive nasty people, that most all can see through.

treatment, or research into brain trauma - or even bulimia.

Their torture of Michael and Terri Schiavo leaves me no sympathy at all for them.

Maliciously false accusations of domestic abuse don't sit well with me.

I hope he sues them for slander.

by charlatan doctors and the wacko right who are exploiting their delusions and grief.

On another thread, someone (hippichick?) had what I think was an interesting insight. In addition to grief, they likely feel guilt over her bulimia, which probably started when she was a teenager before she met her husband. They gave her a hard time about being fat and look what happened.

I think they are very wrong with what they are doing and are in dire need of counseling to let go - but you cannot get around the fact this poor, wretched woman is their LOVED one.

they've lost all ability to accept reality. They are in total denial AND they are allowing themselves to be used.

What is happening here is as huge as the stolen election. That revolution better happen soon, or we are truly fucked.

by making this a high profile/political case. They have thoroughly trashed the reputation of the good man she chose to marry.

I feel terribly sorry for them, and I have prayed for them.

It may have some genetic link, but the bulemics I've seen for therapy have lots of control issues in their families. Looking at this situation clinically, I can't help but wonder about the family dynamics. The one thing people can control when life is controlled for them or uncontrollable in some way, is FOOD. You can't force people to eat and if you do shame/control people into eating, you can't stop them from purging. Terri must have had severe Bulemia to have lapsed into the condition she is in. Most bulemics don't end up dead/nearly dead due to their illness. I can't believe the family is still trying to shove food down her throat even after Terri is so severely incapacitated. It just makes me wonder about her entire life.

I feel compassion for them. I think they're completely delusional about her condition, which would be easier to empathize with if they haven't had 15 years to come to terms with it.

I feel compassion for any parent that loses a child, and I feel compassion for any family that is hurting.

they have vastly, incredibly, horrendously overstepped the bounds of decency and proper behavior. They need to get a clue.

My level of sorrow for them is, on a scale of 1-100, around 12. They have caused such a god-awful mess over something that pales against the sorrows of billions of other parents.

her brother was on some show last night saying he wants her husband charged with murder when she dies

now I understand the father said she told him she wants to live.

"mouthed the words I want to live."

Liar=zero credibility