This Schiavo Furor Bodes Ill for the Democrats!!!

This Schiavo media circus thing, it really makes me nervous for a number of reasons - The most significant one is that I am certain that Republicans are going to use this to further hurt the Democrats on "moral issues", even though the Dems seem to be trying their hardest not to say anything about it.

The problem with that strategy is that you can never win by playing defense alone!

Tom DeLay was purported to say that this Schiavo hubbub could help take the limelight off his ethical abuses, and it seems to be working!

If I were Howard Dean I would buy national primetime TV space and attack the Republicans and Bush, head-on, for wasting the nation's time and money on a highly personal matter that is best left to the family involved and the state courts where they live and the federal government should STAY THE HELL OUT OF IT!!!

The way the Dems are playing this thing now, any misspoken word counts against them. I don't like to see Democrats take another beating in the media over a manufactured non-event like this. Very discouraging. Joseph Farah, and his sleazeball right-wing website, WorldNetDaily, has been flogging the Schiavo story for years. Looks like another triumph of the right-wing blogosphere.

Your thoughts???

...in the case of permanent brain-death, despite the wishes of our own spouse.

Oh, no I don't.

It wasn't even close. Public opinion is on our side this time, and Bush's approval is at 43%.

SHOULD CONGRESS AND THE PRESIDENT BE INVOLVED IN SCHIAVO MATTER?
Yes - 13%
No - 82%
"There are no partisan political differences on this issue: majorities of Democrats (89 percent), Republicans (72 percent), liberals (84 percent) and conservatives (76 percent) are in agreement that the government should not be involved. 68 percent of white evangelicals think that Congress and the President should stay out of the Schiavo case."

and no Im not making this up.

Fox Exclusive: Former nurse alleges that Michael Schiavo abused Terri

80% or more of Americans are against the repugs on this one. Let 'em hang themselves!

Horseshit.

Have you seen the polls? The people of this country are getting hit in the head with The Large Wet Trout of Political Reality and they don't like the feeling. They ain't buyin' what the repukes are sellin'.

The vast majority of this country ain't John Birchers or frothing fundies and they do not want to be that. They are Getting It.

Don't underestimate the power of the right-wing spin machine.

I say attack now, attack hard and attack publicly. Emphasize the waste of time and taxpayers money on a highly personal, state's rights matter. By playing defense now, we risk missing a chance to turn the tide...

Let the PEOPLE speak, let the politicians stay out of it--ours included. Apparently, and you by now have seen the polls if you've read the responses to this thread, about 78 percent of people have "strongly held" views on the topic, that won't be swayed by some fat guy in a shiny suit.

They don't need an Amen chorus from the politicos at this late date.

Do nothing. the country is most upset that the repubs are playing politics with a personal matter. This is the perfect do nothing except express sorrow for the family and politely decline comment.

The repubs have shot themselves in the foot. We do not need to pick up the gun and look down the barrel to see if it is still loaded.

have bigger GOP majorities than 2 and 4 years ago. The people ARE buyin' what the GOP is selling. You can look at this poll and that poll but when people vote, for some reason or other they keep putting more and more repukes in. Their majorities in Congress keep getting bigger

Changing horses in mid-stream loathing, no matter how stupid that urge was. Also, Kerry's campaign was run by a world-class retinue of spineless career hacks and inside-the-beltway Lotus Eaters.

But now, as the totality of just what they have re-elected is made clear, people are Getting It.

four years to look at what they bought and they bought the same and more. I looked at 11/2004 as the downfall of this country because it can't take 4 more years of Bush and cohorts. Kerry's campaign managers were losers, Rove was brilliant marketing as always, but people weren't looking at facts (unemployment, the war, etc). The people were dumb enough to be suckered by the GOP gay marriage etc., crap and a host of other issues and I think they will be dumber next time, in 2 years. That good ol talk radio really fries the brains. The midterms will tell. I hope you are right.

The American people don't want death politicized, either for their family or for others.

Driven by their hubris the republicans have crossed one bridge too far.

At this point the Democrats need do nothing.

On edit: This is an issue where the Republicans define themselves as out of touch with the majority of American citizens. Their hubris and ideology have led them into a minority yet radical position it is a cul de sac in contemporary American life.

What were Bush's poll numbers like before the election?

Did they stop him from stealing the election and claiming values voters put him over the top?

Do you think the are above stealing the mid terms and saying it was the religious voters crushing the polls to support the culture of life?

And would anybody like to bet that Delay is going nuclear based on activist judges 10 minutes after Terri (rightfully) dies?

No need to detail Terri's medical condition, it has been covered ad nauseam.
Terri's legal guardian is her husband, who is living with another woman, by whom he has had children. He says no feeding tube, her parents say leave it in. There is money available for her care from a court settlement.

Sun Hudson was born 6 months ago with an incurable condition that would require a ventilator and intensive custodial care all his life, which would not be long, even with that care.




His legal guardian was his mother, who received no prenatal care during her pregnancy. She did not want his breathing tube removed. She said that he just needed more time to get energy from his father, the sun. No man claimed paternity. Sun's mother does not have money.

The state of Texas chose not to appoint a guardian ad litem for Sun. Had they done so, they would have had to assume financial responsibility for him. The other day, they removed his breathing tube against his mother's wishes.

My question: If Terry Schiavo, her husband, and her parents were all poor, no court money, no insurance or insurance running out, what would be the reaction of the various political and religious factions? Would we even know Terri's name?

You may need to google Sun Hudson, but just for the sake of argument, let's suppose that Sun's mother was an affluent woman, with property, and she had gotten pre-natal care but the doctors failed to diagnose Sun's condition, she sued, and won a big settlement. what would be the reaction of the various political and religious factions?

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I've seen it said elsewhere, like this clip, that "There is money available for her care from a court settlement." Sorry I don't yet have a link, but I believe I saw somewhere recently that such is not the case.

If memory serves, there was a $1 million dollar medical malpractice award several years ago that was eaten up long since by the costs of her care. She's been on state-funded care ever since. All those accusations that have been floating around that Michael Schiavo is just interested in inheriting her money is a crock. Some rich somebody apparently offered him a huge sum (millions?) to resign as her guardian in favor of her family and he turned it down because he is determined to represent HER wishes.

This makes their hypocrisy even more pronounced, in my opinion, because these GOP wonders are NOT providing the same "concern" to other patients similarly situated -- and that's just the beginning. Once again, it is just the politically expedient "life" that interests them. And health care in general is of no interest to them at all. AAArrrgh! Sanctimonious @$$holes. I don't know enough dirty words to adequately describe these people.

Oh! Earlier today on one cable outlet was some thug already waving his arms and bitching about the "activist judges" and why it is so important to get the right kind on the bench. Here we go . . . .!

if we do an ad then we are making this political too. They seem to be doing a pretty good job of shooting themselves in the foot all by themselves, maybe we should just watch for now.

it could possible become a constitutional crisis. and that is what bothers me.

they have their rope and there is a noose at the end of it. Is it the end of the GOP or the country?

When Jeb or George thwart the courts, we'll be that much closer to a fascist dictatorship.

that the OVERWHELMING majority of Americans find the whole thing distasteful. Even despite the pressure of the MSM (continuing to present this story as "saving Terri's life.")

It's a no-win situation for the wingnuts. The best they can hope for is minimizing the damage--if they take it to the mat, they're going to suffer a critical wound.

You're simply wrong on the political impact - the polls show OVERWHELMING opposition to the Republicans' position.

Second, Howard Dean is not the "spokesman" for Democrats - it's not his job to get intimately involved in policy issues.

back and watch. They are really divided on this issue and are

growing afraid of the poll numbers. This is the first time that I

can remember that they do not have their talking points on the same

page.

Look for rat boy delay to take the fall.

Let them self destruct as far as they will go on this, then bring this up every couple months until the November 2006 elections. Don't let the public forget it, and then HIT THE REPUBLICANS HARD with it about a year from now onward, with TV ads, etc.

No one wants to make this woman's death a political issue, but it is going to be a political issue whether we like it or not. Make it clear in the ads that the government, not your next-of-kin, can decide your fate. You don't even have to mention her name, but keep reminding the public what lengths these lunatic will go to.

Could you possibly be anymore wrong? This was never a "non-event" as you say, but it is indeed manufactured in the amount of hype and government involvement. You're quite wrong on your observation of the fact that the majority of Americans think that the federal government needs to keep its nose out of the Schiavo matter.

its best not to get sucked into this Schiavo thing. If the repubs keep on about it with no one to "debate", I think they end up looking ridiculous. The more they bring "God" into it, the more exploitative it will appear.

What happens when Schiavo dies in a week because the tube is removed?

The rethuglikkkans pull a mea culpa, that's what. Their talking point will be "Teh obstructionist demoncraps kill3d Schaivo by obstructing our glorious Führer's attempts to save her!!11!!" And the sheeple will buy it, just as they bought the Iraq war, even though on the eve of the war, 70% of Americans either opposed it or demanded that it be backed by the UN before they could support it. Public opinion was theoretcally on our side right before the Iraq war, too.

Do not misunderestimate the slime of KKKarl Rove.

republicans succeed in dragging you into the mud with them. That way, when Terri dies, they'll try to blame the Democrats, but I believe the public will know that that's not true.

They're in a huge mess of their own making. I say sit back and don't throw them any life preservers.

I think it is a tactical mishap so large, that Delay, despite all of criminal activities will prob. be kicked out to pasture for this. That said, I really wish this woman can be left to die with some dignity and I am, frankly, very worried about what is going on in Florida. You have the JEB breaking the law, claiming some authority and activating law enforcement in order to take her into custody, while the judge is empowering the Sheriff's office to stop it. The local Dem leaders are getting death threats. This is really a very frightening state to be in right now (well, and for a while, but now more so).

True, the Bushies are trying to hold down poor rural whites with this bit of demagoguing while they f*** them over with bankruptcy deform, social security deform and making sure that WalMart employees can get fired even thinking about organizing.

I'm not a political strategist, but I'm sure someone who is can come up with a plan.

On one hand, Bush, DeLay and Co. are alienating most of the country in an attempt to please a subset of their base, and half of them aren't going along. This has backfired on them, even with the MSM helping out 24/7.

On the other, half the Dems in congress sided with them, so we can never use it against them without looking like hypocrites. A situation I'm tired of seeing the democrats get themselves into.

This was yet another opportunity where an issue grabbed the attention of the country, and it was a gift because the rethugs where using it politically and that backfired big time. It should have been seized upon to differentiate the attitude toward privacy and personal rights between the Democrats and the Repukes, their callous political exploitations, and to point out their lack of any self-restraint. Instead it will be, Republicans stand for the so-called "culture of life" even when it kills them, and the Dems? Who the fuck knows? Again.

friend tonight on our way to church choir practice. I figured if she got mad at me, she certainly wouldn't leap out of the car going 60mph on I-95. I had a captive audience. Turns out that she is totally fed up with the news. She's at home all day babysitting her 2 grandchildren and she hears it all. Knew every up-to-the-minute detail and was equally disgusted. She actually said to me that she's afraid she's starting to get the repubs and the fundamentalist evangelical pay-for-prayer preachers mixed up because they are starting to look and act so much alike. She seemed upset that watching C-SPAN the other day was more like watching Baker, Fallwell, or Robertson than our elected politicians.
She can't imagine anybody wanting to keep their daughter in such a state, was lamblasting Jeb and the dr. today. Said she really starting to question the motives of the parents.

After she made those statements, I felt safe to come out of the closet and let her in on DU. I told her if she needed some sanity or to vent, she could always check in here. That it was a safe place for sane, disgruntled, disenfranchised true republicans too.

I've been doing a little of the same myself and have been pleasantly surprised as well. I think this is the only move the Dem's should be making. Touching base with the local Republicans we know and letting them vent while we gently guide them in the proper direction.

And that all important line:

The only winning move is not to play.

The repukes pretty much planned on the dems. answering to the contrary, so they could toss namecalling blame.

Now, it's all their own mess, and they don't even have the dems. in opposition to try to deflect the wrath of their base. Now all thay have left to "blame" is their own politicians and judges. (I do feel a bit sorry for the judges, who so far have done the correct thing by rule of law.)

Best move the dems. ever (didn't) make was to not take the tainted bait.

Now the fundie minority of their base is screaming bloody murder (literally!) over their inability to do anything more, while the paleo-conservatives are furious that the GOP Congress wiped their collective asses on the Constitution.

Best advice to the dems. is buy some popcorn and watch them beat each other up for a while. Politically, it's the best way to "play".

Let them eat themselves. A few wise words here and again should suffice.

You're doing a chicken little here, and it's pointless.

Look at the poll numbers. Bush and the Repugs are getting destroyed in the court of political opinion. Most people believe that this isn't a matter that the government should be involved in. Bush, Rove and Delay have a made a major error by pandering to their fundie base.

you get out of his way and enjoy the show.


The Republicans created this tarpit all by themselves...no need for the Democrats to join them.

The Republicans were wrong to politicize this sad situation. A few sincere, disapproving comments from our side are enough.

People do "get" this one.