We Have Forgotten What We Learned During Vietnam/Civil Rights Movement!!!

Time to go back to school!
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"As we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others." -- Nelson Mandela, Inaugural speech, 1994
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Just posted this to a related thread but, I think it merits a thread of its own:

Many of us are frustrated by the lack of perceived progress of the Anti-War movement.

Our most serious problem is that we have forgotten the lessons of MLK and the other great leaders of the past that have advocated and practiced civil disobedience in the past. They understood that turning up at rallies with signs was a start but, would not get the job done if peaceful demonstrations could be broken up by the police and would be largely ignored by the public without more effective action.

All over the country the police have been dispersing rallies with a few arrests and then threats of arrest. We must hold our ground out there.

I suggest when arrests start that the group must stay together. If they are going to take one of you make them take all of you. Sit peacefully and lock arms. Refuse to move until taken by the police.

I was at the VERY LARGE march in New York during the RNC. I have dreams of those 500,000 or more people sitting down in the middle of the street and refusing to move. Let the public and the MSM try to ignore that!"
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Please see my site for a more complete discussion and video of recent protests broken up by the police and some suggested tactics how to improve the situation:

http://www.seedsofdoubt.com/distressedamerican/pastfeatures.htm
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I have had a very negative reaction to the phrase Civil Disobedience. Many assume it is violent action. People have forgotten what it means. On one hand this lack of understanding speaks to the relative lack of political dissent that has occurred (or was necessary) over the past several decades. Unfortunately, circumstances dictate that we reeducated ourselves about these EXTREMELY EFFECTIVE TACTICS!

Here's some good info I dug up:

http://www.web.net/~opirgkin/qcacg/cd.html

-Selected snips-
Civil disobedience is the deliberate violation of a law for a social purpose. A distinction must be made: "To violate a law for individual gain, for a private purpose, is an ordinary criminal act; it is not civil disobedience." -- Howard Zinn

History is littered with direct action, civil disobedience, proving pivotal - Diggers and Levellers during the English Civil War, Tolpuddle Martyrs, campaigners against the slave trade on both sides of the Atlantic, Suffragettes, Gandhi and the salt marches, Black civil rights movement, anti-Vietnam War protests, poll-tax riots, anti-road protests, direct action against genetically modified crops.

Non-violent direct action has many dimensions: the destruction of something undesirable, the generation of publicity, part of a strategy to generate awareness, open up closed minds. Direct action is never an excuse for mindless violence.

Democracy is not advanced through the actions of politicians. Politicians have only two interests - self-interest and vested interest, the public is not counted as either of these. The public is a bloody nuisance. The only time politicians take an interest in the public, have any contact with the public, is at election time. This is not because politicians have suddenly become interested in the public—the interest is still, me, me me—but they now need the help of the public to get re-elected, to keep their snouts in the trough; the public is soon to be forgotten until the next election.

Left to their own devices, politicians will always act against democracy and the public interest.

Direct action, civil disobedience, is not an adjunct to the normal political process, it is the only political process that retains and advances human rights, civil liberties and democracy.

Civil disobedience, direct action, is often undertaken when all else fails, when rational debate achieves nothing, when the planning process has been exhausted. For a growing number of people it is where democracy starts, part of empowering the people, bringing responsibility and involvement direct to the people who are effected by the decisions. We don't seek permission from those in power to do what we want to run our own lives, we just do it.

Obedience to law and order is so ingrained it has become almost hard-wired. Liberals feel uneasy about breaking the law, obedience to authority precedes potty training. Laws are man made, men are infallible, men are greedy, men are evil. Laws are interpreted by lawyers and judges, the State decides which laws will be upheld, who will be prosecuted.

The legislators decide which laws to put on the books. The president and his attorney-general decide which laws to enforce. The judges decide who has a right to sue in court, what instructions to give to juries, what rules of law apply, and what evidence should not be allowed in the courtroom.

Blind obedience to Law and Order does not lead to a better society, any more than direct action, civil disobedience leads to anarchy and chaos. Military rule in Indonesia, authoritarian rule in Singapore and Malaysia may have led to 'efficiency' of the sort desired by global corporations, until the stresses of the artificially imposed system cause it to break down in social chaos, riots and civil disorder, but it does not lead to justice or fairness.

Laws are artificial, made by those with the most power. Corporations will often say they are not breaking the law, conveniently forgetting that it was they, through corrupt politicians and intense lobbying, who made the laws.

Direct action can be mass civil disruption, extra-legal activity - sit-ins, sit-downs, mass demonstrations, blocking of roads. Reclaim the Streets will hold an impromptu street party, even if the 'street' just happens to be a six-lane motorway or Parliament Square.

Direct action does not have to involve law breaking. Newbury protesters squatted on the route, claimed their residences as dwellings. The site contractors were obliged to take action through the courts to repossess the land, though they weren't above using violent eviction (ie acting against the law) if they thought they could get away with it and no one was looking.

Civil disobedience does not have to involve direct action. The very act of resisting is disobedience of the ruling class. The most powerful act of resistance is that simple word, 'no'. The 'no' when Vietnam draft dodgers burnt their draft cards and said 'no to Vietnam.'

Activists engaged in direct action experience a strong sense of community, a common purpose binds them close together, they are doing what is right, what they believe in, they are not doing it because they are paid to do it.
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The article is filled with many examples of how Civil Disobedience has been used to make a difference from well know examples like Vietnam and South Africa.

Please take a look and get back with comments. This is an important discussion that WE MUST HAVE if we are ever going to take back our country!!!

of weeks and want to get involved with EVERY anti war protest I can. I've been missing out. Thanks for the tips. Maybe you should create a protestor's standard operating manual! You could sell them on your site!

that organize the protests and organize more events. When events happen once every few months, they don't draw much attention, but if you get people out and highly visible as frequently as possible, people have to pay attention.

:)

I'm sure I can find them once I get there plus, before I leave I was going to post the question on DU. But if you have any recommendations on some especially motivated groups, I'd much appreciate it.

http://www.unitedforpeace.org

You should be able to find member groups active in your area through the site. If not, PM me and I'll look into it for you.

but a quick google search gave me this:

http://www.activistsandiego.org/peace.html

It might be a start for you.

I was planning on doing some searching and posting before I leave on the 5th, but these have helped a lot.

http://www.seedsofdoubt.com/distressedamerican/antiwarlinks.htm

There are others that I need to add like NotInOurName.

I'll try to get them added ASAP.

Just kidding. I'd like to bring some of my paintings home. I'd like to donate or auction them to further the cause.

representatives from the major anti-war groups. I'm just a guy and do not want to step on anyone's toes. But, I think I could make the time available to get it set up.

I would like all of these great groups to start working more closely together, to determine their common goals and to cross publicize events in a more methodical manner. If we all came together at one event, our combined strength would be a huge asset.

Any thoughts?

www.unitedforpeace.org

Rather than trying to start your own organization, get involved with the organization that already exists. Look up member groups in your neighborhood and get involved, and then run for a position on the national steering committee next year.

And I will definitely be following your advice. I certainly do not know the internal workings of United For Peace And Justice or the others out there. I will do what I can to get at it from that angle.

I do see the need for these different groups to come together for added force. If that is already happening, I am down with helping in anyway I can.

We fight together or we will surely hang alone.

Organization can take place in a number of ways: in person, and in any one of a variety of ways using the technology of the internet, etc. I think that the idea of having "local actions" is important. I like the thought of many small- to medium-sized rallies in the villages and towns and cities of the country, rather than one large rally in Washington, DC.

I also am in favor of having a small group of dedicated, non-violent people actually go to Washington, DC, and to sit on the steps of select public buildings and pray, and eventually go to jail and fast.

getting involved.

There are quite a few different groups here with very different ideas on how to proceed and what to present (for instance, there are a couple of socialist groups that, in my opinion, spend too much time talking about "socialist revolution" and not enough time trying to get more people involved by using less fiery rhetoric).

What you said is exactly the idea I've been trying to convey to the members of these various groups that I've been in contact with. The problem arises from having a lot of strong-will people who are very convinced of the righteousness of their position. . . then you have the anarchist groups who seem to believe that anything that is organized is somehow evil and supportive of the "enemy." (of course, they still find ways to complain about how other people organize the events and don't make room for the anarchists ideas).

It's a tough game getting the various factions to come together, but unless we can present a united front, we can't be strong.

I see it as a matter of scale. There are a lot of great groups doing great work. However there are divisions. For example, some in the anti-war movement are advocating an immediate withdrawal of troops. Others are pressuring to end it as soon as possible (however that is defined).

That is why I think some sort of National Peace Conference could be effective. Put reps from all of the major groups in a hotel for a few days to hash out an agreed upon set of goals (if that is possible) and tactics.

Not being specifically tied to any one group may make me a useful person to facilitate such an event. On the other hand if it is happening at the national level and I am just out of the loop, Good work to everyone involved.

Not only am I not tied to any particular group, but I'm fairly impartial, and I've been in the military in the past, so I have a lot of perspective to bring to the table :)

Too valuable to sell.

I'm with Abbie Hoffman :hippie: "Steal This Book"

I am working something up and will get it posted to the site soon. There really is a tremendous amount of good material out there. I'll do what I can to get it pulled together.

We've got to work together on this one! :grouphug:

I SAY HIT THE STREETS AND BE READY FOR WHAT'S COMING!
Distressed Sister Watching The Watchers In Westfield, NJ:

It was about a journalist who knew too much and the govt was coming after him. I think we can all relate....perhaps not on that scale though.

Thanks for the suggestion.:toast:

"I have dreams of those 500,000 or more people sitting down in the middle of the street and refusing to move. Let the public and the MSM try to ignore that!"

What would the police assembled have done then? How long would it have taken them to drag everyone of those sitting onto a bus for transport to the detention center? What might the world have seen?

I believe you are absolutely right on all points.

Unfortunately, as in other threads I've seen this morning, I do believe it is going to have to get much worse before we see anything on that scale. Sad, so sad. Too much mindless consumption and reality TV. Remember, Bush told us to go shopping and take our families to Disneyland. Not to come together.

although we are a pretty new group, we are already starting to take some steps in your direction. on our protest on wednesday, we temporarily took over the student union. as we were leaving, the police showed up.

We'll continue to push it a little further every time.

If we have more and more events like this we can start to generate some real attention and there by make change happen.

Anyone else have a stroy from the frontlines?

Great start to your anti-war movement, carry on with good luck.

:kick:

n/t

"The first protest meetings against the Vietnam War (spring 1965), were a few hundred people gathered on Boston Common, addressed by Howard Zinn. By October 1969, 100,000 people were gathered on Boston Common, with similar large-scale protest rallies being held across the country. Lyndon B Johnson feared to escalate the war, as he feared mass civil unrest, and refused a request for 200,000 extra troops from General Westmoreland."

I think we need to keem in mind that it took the people 4 years to reach these massive protest levels. In this era of mass production, we in the West tend to give up easily if results aren't immediate. I like to keep in mind how long the anti death penalty activists have been working with littles results. And yet, they continue because they know they're right.

Hell there folks were fighting Nixon and got over on his ass. Bush should be a pushover by comparison.

Peace.


www.missionnotaccomplished.us

I'll chaeck out your site. I'm always looking to provides links from my site when I can.

:toast:

Peace.


www.missionnotaccomplished.us

I am with you 100%! I am going to post my ideas from the other thread like this one, plus a few others:

1) town-hall style meetings-
where we talk about the war and other issues as a community. Nothing confrontational, but a planned night of dialogue. It's when we get past the slogans and just talk with people that change might happen. If many of us organized these in our towns, it could start change from the grassroots up.

2) Hunger strikes-
good at getting attention, but unlikely to change things by themselves. Cheney would have us all starve before he would raise a finger. Still, it worked for Gandhi tremendously.

3)Marches-
people walking across states for a cause might get more attention. The freedomn marches of the 60's did.

4) Sit-ins-
If people started camping out at the capitol and/or major media centers, it would be another way to get attention for the cause. It worked wonderfully for veterans after WWII. I don't remember the full story now,, but an entire city of them once sat infront of the capitol for months on end until their grievances were heard and corrected.

5)Stand on the side of the road with banners that read "Google 'PNAC' to get to know your masters" or "Google 'Bohemian Grove' to get to know your masters." If the media won't report on these stains on our country, we can take the message directly to the people!

6) I am making an art video right now involving the yellow riboons, but with new slogans on them like "support our War", "support Halliburton" and "support our PNAC agenda." Though I would like to claim this idea as my own for the video, I am interested in mass producing these ribbons with someone else on a not-for-profit basis after I finish shooting (in a couple of weeks). Email me if anyone of you can make this happen.

7)We probably have about 1000 blogs and/or personal websites here in DU alone. What if we all decided to post on the same issue on the same day? Would that make any ripples? Think about it, if all of us posted about the PNAC or the Bohemian grove, would anyone notice? It's something worth trying, as we lose nothing by failing, but much by not trying.


Also, read this short article from wired called "6 ways to reboot the system". http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.09/idol.html?pg=3

There is a general feeling in the air that the old methods don't work. We have some great ideas here, but the next step is to mobilize, organize and concentrate on a few key issues that we want to effect. Ideas alone will get us nowhere. I am totally willing to help, but have little in the way of resources. I can devote time and effort to this though. Let's get it started y'all!!!!!!!!!

Great ideas. Anything that targets the PNAC is good in my book.

I am going to start regularly compiling info of the tactics and goals of civil disobedience/direct action. I'll keep posting what I find as I work it out. I'm just schooling myself. But only we can free our minds.

As you note many folks think this is out of date. I think that a concerted effort to spread the info far and wide is needed.

I have my website:

http://www.seedsofdoubt.com/distressedamerican/main.htm

So far it has been a great tool. It lets me get out my graphics and those of other contributers. Also a great outlet for video from protests around the country. Very good tool. I am tired of waiting for the MSM to report.

But these days I am beginning to contact as many other anti-war and anti-Bush sites I can and see if we can agree to share some space to cross publicize events, etc. I would like to see those of us doing this get together in an organized manner.

We can report ourselves. Sometimes as you suggest, that results in MSM coverage. Keep in touch and I'll be sure to keep you up to date. If we apply collective pressure, we are far more likely to make the jump with a story.

I always encourage folks to turn out to protest but to be prepared to stand their ground in the event of police harassment. Take video if at all possible. Some taken by my sister a few weeks ago is going a long way to getting some bogus charges dropped and some local police sweating a lawsuit. For more on this check out:
http://www.seedsofdoubt.com/distressedamerican/pastfeatures.htm

18 year old Emily Colvin, One Of Those Fighting Charges:

More on basic definitions. Just reading and sharing...

A good manual for Civil Disobedience tacts can be found at this link:
http://www.actupny.org/documents/CDdocuments/CDindex.html
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From:
http://www.nonviolence.org/issues/

"Direct Action
‘Direct Action’ is a term which is often misunderstood. It has the cachet of dramatic zealotry, yet in essence, it is often quieter and more powerful than this stereotype.

To act directly is to address the actual issue of your concern. If you’re working against hunger, it’s might be simply giving someone a meal. If you’re working against homelessness, it might be taking over an abandoned house and making it livable. If you want to stop military spending, it might be refusing to pay your income taxes.

Direct action differs from symbolic protest action, which is lobbying someone in authority to change their policies. An advantage to direct action is that it doesn’t require the cooperation of the authority to be effective. If they intervene to stop your action, you have a dramatic story; if they ignore you, you’ve followed your conscience and can continue following it further. Since the action in itself has a direct effect, it has a power and strength. In practice, the most effective actions are both direct and symbolic, providing a clear witness to your beliefs.

Direct action is only one form of engaging in social change. For more on civil disobedience, which tends more often to be symbolic and conscience-led, see “Conscience and the State”."

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Some good general principles from ACT UP:
http://www.actupny.org/documents/CDdocuments/Guidelines.html

Direct Action Guidelines


These direct action guidelines describe limits required for us to set a minimum level of safety for ACT UP demonstrators:

1. ACT UP cannot guarantee the safety of participants at our demonstrators.

2. Yet, we try to protect each other at demonstrations by setting up a support and advocacy structure that can react quickly if problems should arise or if arrests occur. We recommend that all people considering civil disobedience go to a direct action CD training and that they join an affinity group.

3. At the demonstration, we ask that participants act according to the love and caring that we have built or each other. Individual or group actions that endanger the physical well-being of other demonstrators should not be done. Generally actions that might endanger the safety of others at the demonstration include:


a) physical violence directed against others, including the police, spectators and other ACT UP members

b) actions that cause panic such as running and throwing rocks

c) bringing weapons or anything that can be construed as a weapon to the demonstration site; weapons include but are not limited to: guns, knives, nail files, mace, letter openers, scissors, etc.

d) bringing recreational drugs to the demonstration


4. We ask that anyone or any group considering acts of property alteration (i.e. graffiti) commit such acts openly, taking responsibility for these acts, and taking care that these acts endanger no one. If secrecy is necessary, the action should not be part of this demonstration.

THESE ALL SEEM PRETTY REASONABLE FOR STARTS.
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Let's lock arms everybody. We've got to stop this or annihilation is going to happen. These people in WH are psychotic with a track record to prove it.

Important post.

From:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_disobedience

-snip-
Civil disobedience
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Civil disobedience encompasses the active refusal to obey certain laws, demands and commands of a government or of an occupying power without resorting to physical violence. Civil disobedience has been used in struggles in India in the fight against British colonialism, South Africa in the fight against apartheid and civil rights movement in the USA and Europe.

The American author Henry David Thoreau pioneered the modern theory behind this practice in his 1849 essay (available at Wikisource), originally titled "Resistance to Civil Government", and later retitled "Civil Disobedience". The driving idea behind the essay was that of self-reliance, and how one is in morally good standing as long as they "get off another man's back"; so you don't have to physically fight the government, but you must not support it or have it support you (if you are against it). This essay has had a wide influence on many later practitioners of civil disobedience. In the essay, Thoreau explained his reasons for having refused to pay his taxes as an act of protest against slavery and against the Mexican War.

Civil disobedience has served as a major tactic of nationalist movements in former colonies in Africa and Asia prior to their gaining independence. Most notably Mohandas Gandhi developed civil disobedience as an anti-colonialist tool. Civil disobedience was a tactic used by Polish opposition to the former communist government (See Solidarity).

Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., a leader of the US civil rights movement in the United States in the 1960s also adopted civil disobedience techniques, and antiwar activists both during and after the Vietnam War have done likewise. Since the 1970s, pro-life or anti-abortion groups have practiced civil disobedience against the U.S. government over the issue of legalized abortion. More recently, in the 2000s, people have used civil disobedience to protest the war on Iraq.
-end snip-

There is a lot more there on the history and victories at the link above.

IF WE ARE SMART WE CAN END THIS MADNESS:

Find the full text (I found it a good reread after all this time) at:
http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/Literature/Thoreau/CivilDisobedience.html
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A COUPLE OF GOOD QUOTES:
"Can there not be a government in which the majorities do not virtually decide right and wrong, but conscience?--in which majorities decide only those questions to which the rule of expediency is applicable? Must the citizen ever for a moment, or in the least degree, resign his conscience to the legislator? Why has every man a conscience then? I think that we should be men first, and subjects afterward. It is not desirable to cultivate a respect for the law, so much as for the right. The only obligation which I have a right to assume is to do at any time what I think right. It is truly enough said that a corporation has no conscience; but a corporation of conscientious men is a corporation with a conscience. Law never made men a whit more just; and, by means of their respect for it, even the well-disposed are daily made the agents of injustice."

"The authority of government, even such as I am willing to submit to--for I will cheerfully obey those who know and can do better than I, and in many things even those who neither know nor can do so well--is still an impure one: to be strictly just, it must have the sanction and consent of the governed. It can have no pure right over my person and property but what I concede to it. The progress from an absolute to a limited monarchy, from a limited monarchy to a democracy, is a progress toward a true respect for the individual. Even the Chinese philosopher was wise enough to regard the individual as the basis of the empire. Is a democracy, such as we know it, the last improvement possible in government? Is it not possible to take a step further towards recognizing and organizing the rights of man? There will never be a really free and enlightened State until the State comes to recognize the individual as a higher and independent power, from which all its own power and authority are derived, and treats him accordingly. I please myself with imagining a State at last which can afford to be just to all men, and to treat the individual with respect as a neighbor; which even would not think it inconsistent with its own repose if a few were to live aloof from it, not meddling with it, nor embraced by it, who fulfilled all the duties of neighbors and fellow men. A State which bore this kind of fruit, and suffered it to drop off as fast as it ripened, would prepare the way for a still more perfect and glorious State, which I have also imagined, but not yet anywhere seen."

was the act of civil disobedience from Thoreau's book.

As it was a public service that he felt be best paid for from the collective coffers.

The guy had serious cojones messing with taxes! Bravo!

I'LL MESS WITH TAXES!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bravo to the bold!:toast:

We all need to pick one issue and go after it 100%. For instance, what about getting info out there about the PNAC? What if every blogger and webmaster in DU and beyond simultaneously posted the same fact sheet about the PNAC agenda on their sites? Afterwards, all participating sites would devote a week to talking about the PNAC and what they are doing to the country. Can we organize this? I want to see what would happen. Maybe we would get in the washington post and ny times. Maybe we could even get on CNN! We won't know until we try it. If we can speak with ONE VOICE against this madness, we have a chance of beating all the forces stacked against us. Power to the people, dammit!

So what do you think is next? We need to pick one thing to do and pursue it. Perhaps we should contact moveon.org or other progressive orgs as well. Either way, we need to start building up momentum on this.

:kick: