Look, Jeb and George PLANNED for Shiavo to die…

If the US Congress or especially the Florida legislature wanted to save Terri Shiavo, all they had to do was pass a law that applied to all persons in her situation. For example, Florida could have passed a law that said that a feeding tube was NOT an extraordinary method of extending life. But they didn’t. They kept passing “Terri Shiavo Only” laws that were sure to be ignored by the courts.

Also, look who’s bankrolling the Schindler’s legal efforts; a long list of players including Richard Mellon Scaife and Joseph Coors – the same folks who funded the Paula Jones vendetta against Clinton. That’s strategic money.

So what was the plan? The plan was to have Republican Legislatures and Executives appear to “move heaven and earth” to save Terri, only to have The Courts thwart their efforts. Why? Because Democratic Senators are trying to moderate Bush’s appointments to said same courts, Republicans are planning heavy-handed moves to bypass them, and the Republicans wanted political cover.

But guess what, so far it’s backfired. Poll after poll shows that the public thinks that all the political moves to date have been politically motivated. And that’s with 24x7 attempts by the cable networks to spin in the opposite direction. I say “so far” because we have yet to see the final act of this Passion Play – and how the “Big Three” networks handle that coverage.

But make no mistake. Aside from the public’s surprisingly sane reactions, this whole shameless drama was planned from the start.

they will use "out of touch judges" as a rallying cry to undermine the judiciary, change the rules for the judicial confirmation process, and bring in some justices who will "do the peoples' will"

and then things will get really shitty, real fast....

no longer will judges be the protector of the oppressed - they will be the machinery of oppression.

take a good long look at "judgment at Nuremberg"

with more than 80 percent of the people agreeing with those "out of touch judges"?

i shudder to think of what that 20% could try

:kick:

I think we're about to see riots from church-going, middle-class white people. Did they plan that? :7

"activated the base" a little too much. when jebbie's gotta go and calm the rabble down from killing off his conservative judges, you know it's bad.

I can see them (Giggling Murderer and Brother of Giggling Murderer) scratching their heads and asking, "Where did we fuck up? They didn't think we MEANT all that "pro life" bullshit, did they? After the war-for-revenge-to-please-our-daddy??"

but i wish those whackjobs do try to pull some violence - my best case scenario is a thwarted truck accidentally blows up and takes out the Circus Camp on the way to hospice and all the carnies go with it. essentially something that will kick off an investigation. that would be fun.



i was hoping all hell would break loose in 2007. Looks like Christmas came early.

Why are you?

This is awful.:scared:

but i think most people are still underestimating these nutjobs.

i think the whole country deserves to see what the repubs have loosed.

They KNOW how these people are. Studied them and how they react to certain things. Look at what happened after 9/11 with them. They rallied (but with us instead of against us). Plus they think highly of the Bush family (:shrug:). They are truly the American Taliban.

They wanted this level of hysteria --absolutely.
But they couldn't control every direction their little drama would take. As it is now, with Schindler condemning Jeb Bush on national TV, and Randall Terry saying there will be hell to pay (for the Bushes' betrayal of their hopes), it is going badly for them (for now).

They also probably didn't plan for 9-11 to be as bad as it was either.

But yeah, they wanted maximum circus and hysterical passions enflamed, and assuredly Terri Schiavo's corpse leaving the hospice in a bag was the cornerstone part of the plan. Can't have a crescendo to the staged Christinsanity without a saintly dead victim.

"As it is now, with Schindler condemning Jeb Bush on national TV, and Randall Terry saying there will be hell to pay (for the Bushes' betrayal of their hopes), it is going badly for them (for now)."

Wow! I haven't watched coverage of this on TV... and I haven't seen this before! Sheeesh! I would say it is going badly!!!!

I love it!

to the fact that the dems could have been easily hung out to dry on this- but were wise enough to be 'helpful' without prolonging debate. The rethugs could have easily then blamed her death on the dems. Instead, the dems went along with what the majority clearly would have won anyway.

martyr out of Terri Schiavo.

So when do we run them out of town?

Really. I want pitchforks and fire. And if they DARE try to blame the democrats... I'd pop for sure. :grr: Only people they can blame: Both Bush's, Tom DeLay and Dr. Bill Frist. No democrats can be blamed.

This was the pre-nuclear option play, the set up to get the judges through. Backfired. So far anyway but I wouldn't put it past them to make some good for them come out of this. They are an evil bunch but they are good at. The dems will have to start connecting the dots and speaking out when the time comes. This was a gift to us to stop the plan but they have to open the present.

If they are smart, as I hope they are, they are they'll use this for 2006. It'd be wrong to use it in 2008 but definietly can help for next year. Show that the republican party has been hijacked by these neocons and we can all work together to get rid of them and they can take back their party.

involved? i am hoping some of them (we know some on the sc) are repugs. that would surely put a damper on their activist judges rheroric.

ellen fl

who just got kicked out of his church. also, it appears that some of the other judges involved were put in place by pappy bush. how are they going to rail against 'activist judges' now that they are their own?

ellen fl

but they get massive "political capital" to spend for the fake try....

I'm hoping for Judicial backlash as well, at being so transparently manipulated and undermined.

I'm sure they see right through this crap too.

n/t

option. I have been saying that, too. Will it work?

Pryor, one of W's worst picks yet, voted against the appeal; I think that bodes well for any court stacking attempts. You just can't make people interpret the law in a way that is an anathema to the Constitution.

but I don't think they planned for the general public to have their own formed opinions. Love the use of the expression "passion play," how apropos.

But you synthesized the thought better here.

You may wish to read the Sunday night transcript in Thomas.

And from a tactical point of view makes sense. It does appear to me that a lot of people in the public are interpreting these events more in the realm of unwanted government intrusion into their lives than anything else.

It also looks, to a certain degree, that the religious right may be getting out of control and becoming a liability. Terri's father was on TV tonight telling Gov. Bush that he must use an executive order to save Terri, and that his lawyers tell him that Jeb has the authority to do it. I don't think he does, and if he makes such a move, at the minimum, could be held in contempt of court.

Thanks to you for your insight we are free to confirm that they could not make it apply to everyone even if they had time because they could not under any circumstance change a law to have it apply to everyone because of their prejudices.

Do you think that they tricked Scaife and Coors and other contributors?

Did Dems who voted Yea in the House know this and do it for votes or were they taken in?

(If I ever find that they also planned this to occur during Easter week as retribution for the Elian capture on Easter Sunday, I'll flip out.)

Great contribution.

the polls are against them. The only support they had was from the 10-15% of the population who are diehard fundies. The other 15% are just whackos. There is 30% of the populus which never changes sides.
The polls indicate * approval ratings are in the dumpster and going south (watch out for a red alert). Now the fundies are turning because they don't think that * and Jeb worked hard enough. Believe me if there was a way to pull that out of the hat they'd have done it.

i thought it had all the required elements, as well but the American people are having NONE of it :wow:

to us :toast:


http://images.globalfreepress.com

peace

and, Kick!

they tried to start a war on judges but it back fired

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=111057">for a start.

:headbang:
rocknation

The 15% fundie Rapture Right will be stiffened in their resistance to Librolls" - but disappointed by the Brothers Bush. They may not be as strong for Jeb in '08.

The "Moderate Middle" - even the "Moderate Middle of Faith" are saying "I don't want Tom DeLay telling me spouse or kids when to pull the plug or not pull the plug on me --- I have an Advance Directive and I don't want DeLay setting aside and turning my spouse against my other family members."

That "Conference Room" two doors down from the "Nursing Station" is a very personal, private, almost sacred place - and most people want their privacy preserved when they go into the "Conference Room" and certainly don't want Judges and politicians in there with them.

on why Jeb is running away from this. He knows if he does run in 2008 that he will not be very liked in Florida and Florida is a big electoral vote.

their far-righters who will donate more money to fight the evil Democratic activist judges that murdered an innocent women. I assure you the RNC is enjoying every second of this.

I am glad I have Professional Engineer's licenses in Saskatchewan and British Columbia.

You're right. Somehow they knew about this case and the parents and they'd be perfect. I wonder if the parents are going along too and if they were promised something (money). So I really don't know what to make out of them. Real characters (I feel no sympathy for them with the situation though). Who knows what is going on behind closed doors though with the Bush camp. Everybody is so focused on THIS ONE issue. Nobody has mentioned anything lately with Iraq, gas prices, the oil explosion in Texas, the killing,the kidnapped girl etc. Just Terri Schavio and Michael Jackson here and there. NOTHING has worked for Bush since his "reelection." Social Securty and judges. I also fear for this country too with the economy. I was watching "Roger & Me" earlier tonight on one of the true movie networks and it really hit home what happened in Flint in 1989 (guess who was president). I fear what happened to them could happen to us as a country unless more democrats get in 2006 to have more checks and balances.

when they aren't attacking the legislature, it's the judiciary.

I'm usually a pretty savvy person, but, I must confess, this one has had my head spinning for weeks.

All I could come up with is that they are up to something. I'm not quite sure what it is, but the amount of energy invested in this tells me it's bad.

What you say makes perfect sense.

Once again, the evil bastards have earned my total and complete mistrust.

To paraphrase Groucho Marx in "Horsefeathers":

Whatever they're for, I'm against it.

2 issues in which the general public has deep involvement and or knowledge are Social Security and deaths within families and affect lives daily. On these 2 issues bushco and media cannot fool the people.

So we can have success on issues. we just need to get things to the level of daily involvement in people's lives. in the abstract its easy to be 'prolife' for example because not that many people are running around getting abortions everyday. only a few people are affected at any one point in time.

i think we can win big time on economic issues right now--price of gas and groceries. we can win if we frame it right on medical costs/insurance. we just have to bring it down to the level of the people's everyday lives, show the connection and we win.

....
But they (the Fundies) do have an agenda. And this agenda, if enacted, would radicalize a significant number of the actual majority of Americans. You see, as awful as going to war on false pretenses was, it really didn't affect the daily life of most Americans, or at least not yet. But stopping legal abortions and sticking the Government's nose into the very private matter of when to remove life support, will.
....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3320525#3322443

Quote: For example, Florida could have passed a law that said that a feeding tube was NOT an extraordinary method of extending life. But they didn’t. They kept passing “Terri Schiavo Only” laws that were sure to be ignored by the courts.

I'm pretty sure you're wrong here. Cruzan v. Director, Missouri Dep't of Health, 497 U.S. 261 (1990) suggests otherwise. The Court was very clear that you can refuse any sort of treatment for yourself, including a feeding tube.

It'd be very hard to pass a Constitutional statute that'd replace the feeding tube. The best bet, therefore, would be to limit the realm of those who have standing to challenge the law. It is of no surprise then that these laws are "Terri Schiavo Only," because those can only be challenged by Michael Schiavo.

The most effective legislation would be one that said "In the case of Terri Schiavo, hearsay statements about machine-given care do not rise to the level of clear and convincing evidence regarding her wish to not be kept alive by feeding tube." That seems to fit in with Cruzan:

Cruzan at 284.

I think such a law would still fail, but it'd be as close as you can get. In any event, just about any blanket law would be difficult to get through, and most would be held unconstitutional anyway. Believing there is a conspiracy here has as much grounding in fact as believing that Terri is going to magically recover.

1.) Somewhere, buried here on DU in one of the thousands of Shiavo posts, a DU lawyer posted the exact Florida statute that defines a feeding tube as an exceptional means of extending life. That post also went into the legal niceties as to why that was critical in this case. I'll try later to find it.

2.) David Boies (Gore's atty in Bush vs. Gore) was on the tube last night and he stated a few laws the Florida legislature could have changed that would have impacted this case. I remember him saying that most of these would have involved going beyond "Shiavo Only" laws. I'll look for a transcript, but I think it was on Fox, and they generally don't post transcripts.

decided her fate sans family input, because of a law GW signed into effect. But, surprise ... the media is silent on this tid bit.

out of touch they are with reality. It is not unlike Iraq where they believed it would be a cake-walk because they wanted to believe it despite all warnings to the contrary.

I think you're putting the cart before the horse. I don't think anyone forsaw the huge attention the case was going to get. I think Bush and his cronies jumped on the bandwagon, expecting (like the secret talking points memo claimed) that America would follow.

When they saw that 80% of Americans thumbed their nose at federal involvement, Bush and friends demurely stepped back.

Hopefully this will demonstrate two truths about the Bush clan:

1. They are not pro-life. They're throwing a bone to them every once in a while for the sake of votes. Even a loon like Randall Terry is starting to catch on at how much his movement has been used.

2. All the claims that "Unlike Clinton, Bush doesn't govern on social issues by polling" are utter crap. If anything, he's COMPLETELY swayed by the numbers on these matters.

I predict a huge backlash against the GOP thanks to this case. One almost has to laugh at it. It's like Tom the Cat stepping on a rake left by Jerry.

"terri law" to pass.

If they all had stood up in an united effort to thwart the passing of the resolution not because they wanted Terri to die but because they were upholding their oaths and respecting the separation of powers provisions of the constitution and the 10th Amendment, then they would have been promoting the majority held belief that this is not a federal government issue, but a personal issue and a states rights issue.

The resolution "Terri's Law" was meant to fail from the start. If the resolution had required that the feeding tube be replaced until such time as the federal courts could hold a new hearing or hearings on the physical condition of Terri, then the need for the TROs that the federal and appellate courts have denied, would not have been necessary.

Its been a mockery and a sham from the get go.


.

said on Olberman Friday night. "She will be used by the anti-abortion forces and the Republicans to represent a human fetus, whose mind is blank." We will, in fact, be seeing her face in campaign posters!

They're sick, sick bastards, IMO.