What is this about Terri Schiavo trying to speak?

My mom told me they have video of here trying to say "I wan..." when asked by someone if she wanted to live. Has anyone heard anything about her trying to speak? :shrug:

"AAAAAAAAAAHHH" and "Waaaaaaaaaah."

They are interpreting that as an attempt to say "I want to live."

Why they aren't interpreting it as an attempt to say "I want to go see Jesus" is beyond me.

Does she make noise? Yes.

Does the part of her brain that would be used in the attempt to think, "I want to say 'i want to live'" and then try to say it exist anymore? No. That part of her brain is liquid jell-o.

The CT scan didn't show 100% destruction. I've seen claims of 10-15% intact.

I don't think anyone has done a study to see if her responses were completely random or showed some correlation. Neurologists and doctors aren't speech therapists. She is modulating frequency and amplitude, that much is certain. It could take weeks/months of taping and computer DSP analysis to see if there is a pattern though.

I would have been happier if some people from some of the Army's combat trauma/rehab centers took a look at her. They are more oriented towards what is possible and have some experience in this sort of thing.

On 18 June 1990, Michael was formally appointed by the court to serve as Theresa's legal guardian, because she was adjudicated to be incompetent by law. Michael's appointment was undisputed by the parties.

The clinical records within the massive case file indicate that Theresa was not responsive to neurological and swallowing tests. She received regular and intense physical, occupational and speech therapies.

snip

In late Autumn of 1990, following months of therapy and testing, formal diagnoses of persistent vegetative state with no evidence of improvement, Michael took Theresa to California, where she received an experimental thalamic stimulator implant in her brain. Michael remained in California caring for Theresa during a period of several months and returned to Florida with her in January of 1991. Theresa was transferred to the Mediplex Rehabilitation Center in Brandon, where she received 24 hour skilled care, physical, occupational, speech and recreational therapies.

Despite aggressive therapies, physician and other clinical assessments consistently revealed no functional abilities, only reflexive, rather than cognitive movements, random eye opening, no communication system and little change cognitively or functionally.

On 19 July 1991 Theresa was transferred to the Sable Palms skilled care facility. Periodic neurological exams, regular and aggressive physical, occupational and speech therapy continued through 1994.


http://jb-williams.com/ts-report-12-03.htm

Brains sometimes rewire themselves over time.

It can take many years. An uncle of mine had a massive stroke and was a near veg. 5 years later he made it back and is about 95% now, can drive cars, work, etc.

I'm not sure efforts done soon after the damage would be as representative of her real condition as those attempted say 10 years later after what's left had some time to try and rewire itself.

Was it meaningful in today's context? Maybe not.

If she jumped up and said clear as a bell she wanted to live it wouldn't make any difference at this point.

because it ain't gonna happen, and you know it.

Because if she could jump up and SAY anything, she wouldn't need the feeding tube...she'd be able to eat on her own.

... spooky. I was just commenting about that earlier this evening.

if it really does look like shes trying to speak...if shes really trying to communicate...I find it hard to believe that after 15 years she would all of the sudden try and speak while everyone and there brother is talking about this on the idiot box.

She has been vocalizing and making response like sounds for years.

The problem is that no speech therapists have been allowed near her to see if it was truly random or something trainable.

yes, she has been making sounds.

however, "vocalizing" and "responses" are pure spin.

did you know that dead bodies ALSO make sounds?

quick! get a "speech therapist"! this body ain't dead! IT'S A MIRACLE!!! PRAISE THE LORD!!!!

:eyes:

One needs to some cerebral cortex in order to form thoughts and to control your tongue and lips to forms words.

--the abilities to (1) hear anything, (2) see anything, (3) have a thought, (4) convert that thought to verbal expression, (5) form words, (6) have a language
are all GONE

"trainable"?? is she now a monkey or something?

If she didn't don't know how to use the tools shed had, yes "trainable" is the right word.

If you don't know how to do something, you get trained.

Someone "trained" Helen Keller BTW.

Jeb's Fundie doctor admits she can't talk.

Dr. William Cheshire -

"Although Terri did not demonstrate during our 90-minute visit compelling evidence of verbalization, conscious awareness or volitional behavior..."

. . . just sayin' . . .

you do know a functioning brain is necessary for the complicated process of forming thoughts and linking them to sounds that convey those thoughts, right?? saying "please let me die in peace" requires the firing of million of synapses (brain specialists please correct me if I'm wrong--I'm an entomologist, so what do I know about the human brain?)

The question at hand is how much of a brain?

Small dogs can learn small vocabularies and respond to changes in tone and volume.

If speech were the requirement, Keller would have been killed. The point is there are other ways organizims communicate as well as speech.

ex. the most obvious example I can think of is the ordinary polygraph. People who are lying communicate that lie with certain physiological changes. They don't even need to speak sometimes, the box registers changes before they speak.

Has anyone put this woman on a polygraph to see if vocal interactions and "apparent" responses correlateed to other vital sign changes? GSR, resp, etc.

an exam of her.

Read about it here

http://www.sptimes.com/2003/11/10/Tampabay/Schiavo_tapes__snippe.shtml

if put in a situation with a crowd like that? What do very small children do when plunked in a crowd setting? Some shine, others withdraw.

The test environment described is/was a bogus fabricated one. A more accurate reading would have been to put a camera in the corner and videotape for several months as the nurses and workers interact in ordinary daily situations.

4 hours, or even 4 weeks, of tape might not be enough to notice any patterns in the vocalization and how they correspond to setting changes.

I look at this from a code breaker POV. If you give some small piece of a much larger message, it may not be crackable and just appear random.

This requires context, a LOT of context and computer DSP analysis. This could be like trying to decode ELF signals.

or 4 weeks.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3355938&mesg_id=3356212&page=

Some people with massive strokes take many years to adjust and internally rewire themselves.

IMO, a 15 year old evaluation is hardly sufficient evidence to pass kill someone today.

DSP and signal processing technology 15 years ago was stone age too.

I'm from Missouri, the Show-Me state. Show me--I'll believe it when I see it.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/11233232.htm

"PINELLAS PARK - A federal judge today ruled for a second time against Terri Schiavo's parents, who then made a remarkable new claim in court:

They told a state judge that their daughter attempted to say ''I want to live'' a week ago.

In a new motion in Circuit Court in Clearwater, the parents' lawyers said three witnesses -- including one of the lawyers -- heard Schiavo attempt to say ''I want to live'' on March 18, the day her feeding tube was removed.

In response to a question from lawyer Barbara Weller and ''in the presence of Suzanne Vitadamo and Suzanne's aunt, Mrs. Schiavo attempted to verbalize the sentence,'' the motion said. Vitadamo is Terri Schiavo's sister."

WHAAAAHHAHAAA UGGGH

Well, not "speak" exactly. More like a Presence.

I trust him don't you?

...all the voices under control.

on MSNBC. An academy award performance, for sure. My mind is reeling from all this crap. i go back and forth between scared shitless to uncontrolable pee your pants laughter.

"Although Terri did not demonstrate during our 90-minute visit compelling evidence of verbalization, conscious awareness or volitional behavior..."

- "Dr." William Cheshire

...firing that at us 24/7? Come on...think before you post.

I was posting because I havent been watching TV. If you want to be an asshole and apparently are so much smarter then me feel free to enlighten us all with your infallible logic. :eyes:

Edit: And furthermore if you want to decide who should post and when maybe you should try becoming a mod.

eom

.. and it sounded like the Peer Boyle character in Young Frankenstein when he sang "Puttin'on the Ritz" with Gene Wilder.

(/sarcasm)

All that "looking around" and "vocalizing" is anecdotal behavior of a physical body still running after the captain abandoned ship.

The video that we see that FOX runs over and over is from 2002 and 2003. And that was culled. They picked and chose where she looked like she was reacting to people. LOOKED is the operative word. Autonomous responses to external stimuli, by the very primitive body.

SHE'S DEAD! And has been for 15 years.

This whole thing is so political.