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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 07:14 PM
Original message
Noonan, DU, and press attention in general.
With so many truly wacky, irresponsible opinions on the Web, why would a highly-placed figure like Peggy Noonan choose to cite Democratic Underground in her column?

After all, in the lead-up to war DU was right about the lack of a threat from Iraq, about the WMD lie, about the real reasons for the war, right about Bush's failures in protecting America against the 9/11 attacks. Is that unhinged? Why point out a site with such a good track record?

DU is right about the tainted elections in 2004, 2002, and 2000.

DUers suspicions and criticisms of much of the main-stream media as a bought and paid for arm of the Republican party continue to prove valid.

DU is accurate when it points out the abysmal lack of coverage of recent peaceful anti-war protests while cable channels cover a relatively small protest--covered 8 hours a day--to preserve the vegetative state of an unfortunate woman whose brain has degenerated into mostly fluid.

Main-stream media has gotten it wrong too many times. Do they lie? Are they just lazy? Is it now considered wacky to get stuff right the first time?

DU had nothing to apologize for in its discussions leading up to Bush's Iraq war, While some in the mainstream media issued mea culpas for their inaccurate reporting. Apologies that were offered many thousands of deaths, immeasurable amounts of suffering, and billions of dollars too late.

And that, ladies and gentleman, is Wacky. Crazy, sick, irresponsible wacky. No one in power anywhere has paid for the rigmarole that brought us to where we are. In fact, many have been rewarded with medals and promotions.

When the press actually goes after those responsible, I will accept all apologies. Until then, there's always that flying leap at the moon available to them.

The press heeded neither plain facts nor recent history in their rush to grant the White House every point on their planned-in-advance wish list for war in the Middle East. Those hoping for forgiveness include such outlets as the New York Times and The New Republic.

I think it's reasonable to assume that DU's decent accuracy rate along with its activism is exactly why "Peg'O'The Darts" bothers to give DU the time of day at all.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/pnoonan/?id=110006460

DU is one of the on-line sources that gets the big picture right, and despite her attempt to discredit DU, her attention to Democratic Underground actually serves to draw attention to her own failures as a member of the press.

Her membership in the press-corp should be worthy of respect. But that trust, a trust constitutionally protected, has been betrayed. She's got plenty of company.

What I find most interesting is that Noonan represents a party that whines ceaselessly, vigorously and disingenuously about "elitists" .

From their well-paid perches, from face-lifted jaws and chemically-plumped lips, from under expensive toupees and out of designer outfits put together by highly paid advisers, from every trained hand gesture, emerges their disdain for the common man and woman, our views, our concerns, and the manner of speech we employ.

Lofty, unflappable Peggy thinks it's "unhinged" to declare that one has "kicked the sh-- out of the fascists."

The statement was taken out of context, which is somewhat surprising for a writer who graduated cum laude from Fairleigh Dickinson University. More surprising is that Peggy Noonan still manages to miss the clearly fascist elements ascendant in our nation, If only by definition.

She misses the planted bomb,the attempt to steal a gun,the solicited assassinations, the death threats to leaders--all tactics employed by the Right-Wing to protect the sanctity of life in the Schiavo case Noonan writes about. These were not unexpected tactics, given some of the players in this drama, but here is Noonan's take on reality:

'And why do those who argue for Mrs. Schiavo's death employ language and imagery that is so violent and aggressive? The chairman of the Democratic National Committee calls Republicans "brain dead." Michael Schiavo, the husband, calls House Majority Leader Tom DeLay "a slithering snake."'

Really Peggy? When's the last time calling someone a snake directly resulted in their head exploding?

Noonan's tender musings miss the greatest part of the whole sad Sciavo story, a part that 80% of Americans did not at all fail to miss: Government has no business at all in making such a decision. When Congress and Mr Bush outrageously wended their way into such territory, they tread a small path toward fascism, and Americans know it, even if the elitist Ms. Noonan does not.

One wonders if a youthful Peggy didn't blow her way through college in a great windy hurry, missing out on the finer points. Indeed, perhaps this is the trajectory of her entire career.

Many of us on DU are blue-collar, middle-class and lower. I was raised among the steel-mills of South Chicago. And I don't like it when powerful elitists like Noonan try to intimidate me into how I should express myself. When DU is attacked, a broad cross-section of regular, earnest Americans is attacked. I don't like it and I'll say so when a Ms. Noonan, deeply rooted in Washington's power, begins tossing her crumbly bricks at people who do not have access to the high place from which she expresses her views.

Not that politeness should be ignored, but when faced with lies and willful ignorance, a little verbal rough-housing is in order. And DU is a place for that, as it is also a place for high-mindedness.

Even the kind Ms. Noonan employs, only not so obviously full of the horseshit she has been paid so well to spread.

Just because a person isn't in possession of an expensive college degree or a college education at all, doesn't mean they can't read and don't have the ability for critical thought.

Indeed, during campaign 2000, the press made a big honking deal about how George W. Bush "spoke just like the people". Well, that was a lie, too. Most Americans don't speak like fatuous, dishonest idiots. They really don't.

But when Noonan uses the august platform of the Wall Street Journal to promote (as she has in the past) war-hungry old men as hot little sex bombs, I think DU can be permitted to ask " What the hell is THAT shit all about?" Let alone become agitated when we see America barreling down the wrong path.

And while Ms. Noonan is busy flushing-out "Those who are half in love with death" in her column, she might wanna look to her aging Chickenhawk boyfriends in the White House.

Talk about unhinged...



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Neecy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
1. excellent....
Thank you for posting this -
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
2. kicked and nominated n/t
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
3. Excellent :-)
steel mill kids rule!

:-)
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Yeah! we just got shitty health, is all.
:-) Thanks for checking in, papau.
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FlemingsGhost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
4. Because an online forum is an easy target.
Kinda like using someone who can't defend themselves for political gain.



SOP for the intellectually challenged.
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. This is pretty fucking condescending. nt
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FlemingsGhost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. To whom?
I don't follow ...
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. I thought I was playing defense.
And offense, too. :-)

Did'ja wade through the whole rant?
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FlemingsGhost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. And I thought I was slamming Noonan.
Sorry for any confusion.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. No problem.
:-)
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
6. ROFL
For the record, I have a degree in philosophy. I obtained it on a full-ride merit scholarship to University of California, Santa Barbara. I got into every college I applied to, including UC Berkeley.

I'm just very blunt in my opinions, especially when it comes to the neocon fascists currently running our country.

I stand by my opinion.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. And I bet you'd qualify for an honorary degree as well!
You done made good, boy! :-)
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AuntiBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. Sincere honor your way, BullGooseLoony
You're more than earned it; and deservingly, so.

Those like "her" are in fear of those like BullGoose that speak the truth. It could disturb their future investments $$$.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #6
20. I'm the one without higher education.
(that's also for the record).

I wrote of myself and others at DU who are like me. You just happen to speak the same blunt language.

And very well, I might add ;-)
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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #6
22. Keep kicking the sh_t out of the fascists BullGooseLoony!!
I completely concur with and fully endorse what you stated in your original comment. Especially the "without lifting a finger" part. The one that dried up hack bitch left off when she quoted you.

:yourock:
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AtTheEndOfTheDay Donating Member (454 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
8. Very well said.
That woman makes me puke.
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mcscajun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
12. Well done!
You nailed her and the media on point after point. It was a beautiful thing to read.

You've got my vote.
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Window Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
14. So very true.
Excellent and nominated.
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Celebration Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
16. why?
The reason she uses quotes from here is because in all the posts she is bound to find something to write about and attack. More than anything else it is about her being lazy and overcoming writers' block. Face it, she would write something we didn't agree with anyway. This works to our advantage, of course. Say whatever you will, just spell my name right!! This place is a literal bastion of diversity. Steel mill kids are just part of the mix-- but that is beside the point. I find it pretty amusing that she quotes us. Bring it on!!! Heh heh.
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ElectroPrincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
18. That was *Outstanding* !
Kudos galore!

Well written and promptly nominated :-).
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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
19. Very nicely said
:kick:
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Pharaoh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
21. wonderful
hey peggy?


please reply........

DU is waiting with baited breath...........
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LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-27-05 12:35 AM
Response to Original message
23. Kurovski
:toast:
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PittLib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-27-05 03:45 AM
Response to Original message
24. I'm still pissed that they didn't publish (or post ) my response:
I find it ironic how you choose only to highlight the hypocrisy of fringe groups without acknowledging the blatant hypocrisy of our so-called leaders. Have you heard of a little bill titled the Advance Directives Act? This law, which provides for the ability of a hospital to end life-sustaining measures for a patient when their condition is deemed terminally irreversible without the consent of the person serving as the power of attorney, was signed by none other than George W. Bush. But we don't need to mention that. Think nothing of the hypocrisy of the religious right, who consistently support politicians that undermine the best interests of the poverty stricken and down trodden. The same people who speak so passionately of "God's will" and heaven, but fight tooth and nail to keep you from getting there and who have actively chosen to exploit this woman's misfortune. Instead you attack segments of a party that are hardly representative of the whole, with the implication ! ! that they do represent the whole. You fail to criticize those who endorse cutting Medicaid funding (which sustains Ms. Schiavo) or who refuse to support stem cell research, which could help millions who are suffering. Instead you criticize a party that works to ensure that all Americans have access to health care, and to protect those who are disabled, disadvantaged and veterans. You trivialize the findings of the medical community, the majority of whom agree that Ms. Schiavo's condition is irreversible, though it is their work that has kept her alive thus far. I suppose science is simply a convenience. I suppose we should ignore the facts and wait for a miracle, but then if for miracles and not science, Ms. Schiavo would have died 15 years ago. You trivialize that which the courts uphold again and again to be Ms. Schiavo's wish. Apparently a person has no will, just a life that must be protected at all costs, even if it means overiding that person's right to make their own choices about their life. What we, the "pull-the-tube" types, fear most is the desire of right-wing politicians to erode our most basic rights under the guise of morality, imposed morality at that. This issue amounts to nothing more than political pandering, and you are just as guilty of such. Why rely on facts when you have so much self righteous indignation readily available.

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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-27-05 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. you go girl/guy n/t
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PittLib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #27
33. This girl is seeing the power in LTTE ...
I'm aiming for 1 a week, minimum. I can't believe that this woman has any reputation, with this ridiculous drivel.
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-27-05 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
25. Very well done!
Only thought I would add is it is often difficult navitgating through the scores of soap opera crisis posts and it is possible, nae, the fact is that many posts of deeper and more lasting impact sink to the archives all too soon.

If we showed greater restraint in launching yet another new post when scores already exist, rather using the search feature and apending to a similar, gems like this one would be less likely to become buried.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-27-05 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Thanks, paineinthearse.
and thanks to all the other DUers above.
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murdoch Donating Member (658 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
28. Here's Noonan cheerleading the war in Iraq
http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/pnoonan/?id=110003239

So all the dead and maimed children in Iraq that Al-Jazeera showed on television (which drove these people crazy - in fact, the US "accidentally" bombed the Al-Jazeera office in Baghdad, killing a reporter) not to mention everyone else killed or tortured in Abu Ghraib, or the soldiers who refused to go tossed into American jails and so forth - that's great, but the government allowing the end of feeding someone whose brain is half fluid, that's a tragedy. Just another lace curtain bozo like Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilly.

If I concede the point that we don't know what Schiavo wanted, which I don't, the only people whose opinions I care about are the disabled rights groups, who I'll listen to despite fools like Noonan. So far I've heard differing opinions from them. I don't think they have to worry about somehow aligning themselves with DeLay and the other idiots, Democrats don't deal with the world in the Manichean way the Republican base does.

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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 07:59 AM
Response to Original message
29. GigaDittoes
and a kick to boot.

Well reasoned and well written. Thank you.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 08:03 AM
Response to Original message
30. Gee, Peggy Bundy Noonan there forgot to mention
how Shiavo has survived ONLY because fo a malpractice suit award thanks to her doc's incompetence 20 years ago.

"right to life" is bullshit when right wingers want to see malpractice awards capped at values that would condemn the victim to death after 2 months (or less) of care ($250k.) The dichotomy doesn't fly with me and the issue of "tort reform" far transcends capped awards for victims; that's a symptom of a greater problem.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 08:11 AM
Response to Original message
31. Even bad press
is better than no press, I suppose. But it pisses me off when witches like Noonan try to discredit us. I guess it proves that they are afraid of us, which they should be. Whenever the light of truth is shown up them, they melt into puddles of water like the wicked witch in the Wizard of Oz. I love when that happens.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
32. Of course Noonan is a moron..
.... and a whore. But the fact that she mentions DU is a good thing.

Every time one of these whores tries to smear DU, a quantity (we don't really know how many) of folks come here to take a look.

Of that quantity, some percentage, it might be 5% or it might be 55%, find that there is a lot more intelligence here than in the main stream media.

The MSM is running scared. They have, by turning their work into "misinfotainment" and plain old "pravdastylepropaganda" set up a devil's bargain for themselves. They have to keep on the track, but every day they stay there they lose more credibility with more people.

I honestly believe that at some future date, these people will be seen as the Benedict Arnolds of our time. And they know it.
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