Does anyone think the Fundies will ever reach the nice "liberal" areas

of the country? Do you think they will ever get that powerful to turn nice states like New York, Massachusetts, and Washington into deep red areas of the country? I read alot of the posts on the Religious zealots and all I seem to see is them getting stronger in numbers and creating chaos. Alot of our news stations use their talking points, and it has become a stable of amercian culture almost now. And now you see these "liberal" states having fundie like people or laws in place, like the ban on Gay marriage in Oregon, or Massachusetts having a "wannabe" fundie as a governor...who I've seen say some things that sound fundie like. I'm alittle bit frightened for my country, and I don't want to live in country full of fundies. So what is everyone else's opinion?

around a town called Salem. We can only hope people there have very long memories.

On how to deal with those they don't like. Not one of those killed in Salem were pagan. All were Christian.

Thanks, Jesus.

They are growing in numbers. Evangelicals use times of hardships to recruit people to swell thier numbers. They prey on those in hospitals, unemployed (that is why Bush won't fix the economy), in jail/ prison, or just having a crisis like a spouce dying. They are sick and try to convert anyone. Even other Christians (WTF?!).

The more they get, the more they grow, the more our nation loses free thought and will to the Borg of our day.

It shouldn't have happened, but when you let the industrial jobs leave the state and country you no longer have a Democratic working class

in "red states," which is where all social and political pathologies originate and find their sole existence, while "blue states" are paradaisical places where everyone loves one another and no one ever gets old and every little girl who wants one can have a pony. :-)

Seriously, though, I think you're right that religious fundamentalism is a threat everywhere. Some places that used to be our strongholds are turning Republican--like Wisconsin, where Kerry beat Bush by only 0.38% last election--or have already gone GOP, like Iowa. Major economic or social upheaval tends to make people nostalgic, which makes them prime prey for conservatives, religious and otherwise, and we have some upheaval headed this way. So yeah, I think your fear is legitimate, and dealing with it is going to mean doing some things some of us will find uncomfortable, like actually talking to the religious in an attempt to bring them to our side, rather than just dismissing them as kooks, and returning to our party's historic advocacy of working-class issues so that voters who are vulnerable to GOP/Fundamentalist propaganda might actually have a reason to vote for us.

especially in the bigger cities. i think the fundies make so much noise because they are actually LOSING members to more rational and loving belief systems. at least that's what i see happening where i live...northern california. my church, a religious science chruch, is growing astronomically, while some of the more traditional churches in this area are dying.

access. Seems like every time CNN or some other corporate propaganda outlet wants to get the "Christian perspective" on an issue, they call Falwell--they must have him on speed dial or something. And yet Falwell and Dobson and the rest speak for no more than a quarter of American Christians.

but word of mouth alone has grown my church from 37 members to over 1,500 in about ten years. and there is a sister church not far from use with a growing membership as well. in this area, the churches that want to survive have to be liberal-leaning...and gay-friendly.

My UU church is growing. We get more and more visitors and friends. Not too many new members but it's small and we get to know each other well.

Yes, I do think so, sure, in the long term, the sun always sets and night always falls. The periods of history when democracy, free-thinking, freedom of religion, freedom for women to be persons rather than baby-makers...all of these are a blip in the span of history. How many time periods can you think of when women were free? Post-Revolution France, post-Revolution America, post-1972 America and Europe, yech, there really aren't very many.

It is a sad fact that by definition half of all people are not as intelligent as the average. And stupid people hate and fear what they don't understand, which is intelligent people.

In the end, sure, the side of good, light, justice, and freedom is doomed to lose. How long did the Roman Republic last compared to the Roman Empire?

We are only responsible for trying to weed-whack our little area of the jungle. That's all we can do. I believe we will see pretty much a totalitarian state in the U.S. in our lifetime but you struggle for what is right, not for what you think you can win to look good in the history books.

Be strong. We've all had the same thought, and we continue the struggle anyway. If you chop out a year or a decade of freedom for someone who would otherwise never taste it, you have accomplished something meaningful. The women who went before me may feel that they struggled in vain and the cause is lost, but the fact is, they helped ME and they helped countless others of my generation, and even if they never know the good they did, they did it.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

of the South Bay the fundies have really made inroads, they have their 'churches' all over the place. There are all kinds of weirdly named 'churches' and some of them are huge, just a couple of miles from me they took over a big bowling alley complex and turned it into a Hope Chapel. x(

it's been so long since i left, i can't remember :silly:

Torrance, Redondo, Hermosa and Manhattan Beach. This huge Hope Chapel deal is off of PCH in Hermosa Beach, the beach cities are lousy with fundie 'churchs'. :puke:

disappointed, but not surprised. may i join you in :puke:

It will increase in the "blue" states too. It hasn't peaked yet.

The irony is that the conditions that help fundamentalism flourish--lack of opportunity, frustration, sense of powerlessness, diminished expectations--are the very things the Republicans create with their policies. In effect, it's a positive feedback mechanism for them. The country deteriorates because of their policies, more people get sucked into fundamentalist cults, they then vote for more Republican government, the country deteriorates...

I think the fundies and the mainstream conservatives are getting sick of each other.

Witness the whole Terri Schiavo thing. Most of the country was in favor of letting her go in peace, but Jeb and George had to make a big, meaningless gesture towards "saving" her that didn't "save" her and wound up doing nothing. The fundies were pissed that they didn't do enough, and the mainstream republicans were pissed that Jeb and George got involved at all.

They can't have their cake and eat it too.

I live in AZ, the home of Goldwater Republicans who are for small government, conservative fiscal policy and a government which keeps out of people's lives. I think this current gang is starting to lose some of the AZ Republicans.
Bush won here by only 2% in '04, and for a died-in-the-wool Republican state with a very large and conservative retired population, that's not a very concise victory. Given that the Bush campaign made great efforts to soften the voices of its neo-con and fundie bases during the last campaign, many Repugs here were lulled into believing that this administration was fiscally conservative and strong on security. I'm not so sure they'll be as easily duped in the future.

<snip> Not just New Hampshire, but New England in general — long known in clerical circles as the land of the "chosen frozen" — is seen by evangelicals as one of one of the most fertile missionary fields in the country.

Evangelical Protestants — some with financial backing from independent churches in the Midwest and South — are training their sights here in hopes of spreading Christ's message to New Hampshire's large number of non-church goers and its new ethnic and immigrant groups.

"The Northeast is the greatest mission field in the United States," said Pastor Frank Reynolds of Manchester Christian Church.

"Our mission is to change New England by turning ordinary people into extraordinary followers of Christ," added Reynolds, 55, a Virginia native who came here in 1980.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=166&topic_id=519

betcha next election we hang with mouth open and say how did they do that. bet the machines will be set, the sec of whatever in place and they steal the state and then the news will say how calif turned due to arnie

Sheesh. I sound like Kevin McCarthy in "Invasion of The Body Snatchers."

We have a charismatic evangelical 'corporate church', complete with their own media production group and broadcasting arm in NJ that's growing and "planting churches" (their own phrase, not mine) in three major cities/towns in NJ aside from their HQ, and one in Westchester. Now they're intent on moving into the town next door to me.

Fundies aren't limited to any geographic area; just so far, their influence isn't quite so strong outside their home base areas.