I won't cry for Karol Wojtyla

He has lived for 87 years, traveled well, lived better, survived assasination attempts, enjoyed the adoration of millions. He had more power for a longer period, than most world rulers ever get. He has more control over his death than most people get, and when he does die (assuming he hasn't already), he will be mourned by people the world over.

No, I don't feel sorry for Karol Wojtyla. I hope his end is peaceful, I hope the Catholic church has an easy and quick transition. But the Pope is a man who has led a long, healthy, and remarkable life. What a way to go.

:hug:

like some 'leaders' i know.

good post

which he should have addressed. Anytime children are abused, it should be directly addressed. Had he done so, he might have engendered my respect.

Every diocese now has a program like this one.

http://www.dio.org/victims/index.php?title=Victim Assistance Program&file=program

Shouldn't that be celebrated rather than mourned?

celebrate the death, to die of this world and to be reborn into the glory of God, to at his side, is what we aspire to.

I'm an atheist, and I don't believe in an afterlife. But yeah, I would think his"going home" should be celebrated by those who believe he is, in fact, going home.

We rejoice for him, but grieve for our own loss.

have been moved to tears. (Although it might be a reaction to listening to cable news?)

Today we face losing a great soul, who did much good for many people. Even when I disagreed strenuously with him, it was impossible not to recognize his devotion to and dogged work for the people. Que lo bendiga Dios.

/grammar

I disagree with my own father about man things, but I still love him and respect him as the head of our family; I feel the same way about His Holiness.

We've lit candles and brought flowers into the house. So uncharacteristic for us, but there are souls who move you -- literally, move you -- in directions that are not your usual path.

"There's a great spirit gone." -- Shakespeare, Antony & Cleopatra

On edit: Thank you, Cuban Liberal. It was good to hear my sense of loss reflected, understood.

Beth

Może wy znajdujecie Pokój!
Może wy sława w Miłości Boga!
Dziękują - Kochać wy!

:loveya:






http://www.poltran.com/

Isn't it just amazing, that as much as many of us just hated some of these policies, we recognize the man that was negotiating between the Church and the people?

Okay, I'm going to shut up now. Thank you all for helping me surf the dissonance and the loss.

Beth

One of my elderly relatives put that very sentiment in her will (well, except the part about the assasination and adoration), and left enough money to be sure there was an open bar at her funeral luncheon because she wanted us to celebrate a long and happy life.

But I will grieve the loss of him. But I do agree with you, he has live a remarkable life and I wish him a peaceful transition.

Ann Arbor

in the face of the AIDS epidemic.

At least he was down on Bush.

OK. I liked the pope's pacifism, and that's it. On every other issue, he was so reactionary, not even 20thc.

And the negatives will probably just continue, because this college of cardinals was, in the large majority, appointed by JPII.

Oh well...

Sue

Mostly, sexuality up one side and down the other.

But he did more than any previous Pope to reach out to people of all faiths and to encourage coalitions of rational and goodhearted people.

He stood up to the Cabal when few dared to.

In that context, I mourn the man, who most days of the week, I disagreed with.

I don't think we fully grasp the history of this moment. This Pope is going to be one of the giants of history, I think a la Churchill, Roosevelt, Lincoln, etc. And he is passing.

It's pretty remarkable. I'm 31, and he is the only Pope I have a memory of.

I am 24 . A child of the 80's . I was so innocent , I thought that Mother Teresa was his wife . Well I knew she was a Catholic and that she was big and special - so put two and two together lol . But this is history in the moment .

What's most remarkable about him to me is - I saw clips on Polish TV today of orthodox jews in Israel and muslims in the Palesthinian Authority chanting prayers for the Pope.

I'm an atheist. I disagree greatly with John Paul II's convervative stance on many issues. The personality cult around him here in Poland is sometimes nauseating, as if it matters if he used to ski a lot or what town he was born in or what his favorite cookies were in his school days. (I'm not making this up.)

But to see jews, muslims and buddhists bowed in earnest prayer for this man, to think what it must have taken to have earned such respect - it's deeply, deeply humbling.

I feel sad for his limited view on human sexuality, and that his hate or fear of homosexuals is so deep that he declared gay marriage to be evil.

I feel enraged for the Catholic Church's mandated, official-but-secret decision to move sexual predators around rather than having them arrested. I feel fury that there was a decades-long written policy that endorsed these actions.

But I don't think the man is evil, just misguided, and I hope that, assuming there's something beyond death (likely not close to what his or any other religion has described), he enjoys peace and maybe learns why some of his views were exclusive and hurtful.

Nice post, MB. You've got class.

eom

Either way, I also hope he has a peaceful transition. He's had a full life, and he's done much good for the world. (And much that many seem to have a problem with.) But, either way, he's an important man in the lives of millions in this world, and millions will mourn his passing.

He is 84.

i saw the head of the RC Church in Scotland, Cardinal ?O'Brien (I think) on television earlier, and that seemed very much his outlook; he's lived a very full life, fulfilled many of his aims (whether or not we necesarily agree with them), and is now passing over to what he believes to be a better place. Without wanting to sound glib, no Catholic could really ask for a better death.

He has lived (and will die) a better life than most. He has lived a better life than those he helped condemn with his archaic beliefs. In his last months, instead of making peace with certain groups, he continued a full out assault on gays and lesbians. He continued to condemn MILLIONS to death by stating that condoms were not acceptable. He lived better than all of those people and we will die better than all of them as well. When he dies, he will be praised not looked upon as 'human filth.' When he dies, we will do so in a clean, safe, and loving environment, unlike millions who will die in the streets. And, when he will dies, he will do so at the age of 84, unlike many Africans who will not live past the age of 5.

I can appreciate others mourning his loss. I can appreciate others shedding tears. I, however, will not.

I'd only add those in Asia and S America who will also die before the age of 5 because of a misguided notion that an increasing population in Catholic countries also means an increasing Catholic population. What his policies have done to poor children enrages me.

I don't rejoice in anyone's death, but I certainly won't lie about his legacy either.

I appreciate your adding the other areas I forgot. While it is disingenuous to omit his good works, it is just as so to leave out his failings. There will be much sadness worldwide after he passes. Now, if he could harness just an iota of that sympathy and gear it toward the others suffering in the world, we would see some real changes in the world!

*want* to be part of my family! :)


Indeed, this man is very complex, as are most humans. He has done many things in his lifetime which are/were commendable- advocate for peace, supported the Polish resistance, and in the beginning of his tenure appeared ready to force the international community to act against world hunger. Unfortunately those acts have been largely overshadowed by the College of Cardinal driven dictates he's issued of late and the unholy alliance his church has crafted with the Protestant fundamentalists in the name of fighting the "baby killers" and the "homosexual agenda".

Even so, I do still believe that his replacement will be much more offensive to those on the left, and we may one day look back at Pope John Paul II with great fondness.

go dude to peace. good and productive and happy life. did good, go home, rest

I'm Catholic. There are plently of things that I agree with the Pope on ,and there are certainly plenty where I take a very opposing opinion.

It is sad when anyone dies, but when someone is this age, it isn't a tragedy. He has lived a full life, helping millions, but also hurting millions. While I hope that others on DU can feel free to express their thoughts on this, I also hope that the tone can remain civil. It isn't about quieting dissent, but remembering that we must be respectful of one another. Unlike the opposing team, no one here wants their beliefs to dominate the culture, but simply remember that everyone- Christians, Athiests, Agnostics, Hindus, Buddists, Sieks, etc.- all their beliefs deserve respect and sensitivity towards their beliefs.

At this point, all the posts on this thread have been right on, respectful, thoughtful and intelligent. Thank you!

with my 96 year old father this evening (with whom i disagree most of the times) he and i were both in agreement that Karol Wojtyla was a man who loved the people he served... (I think the Cardinal who celebrated the Mass for the Pope today in Italy said that the Pope loved his title of Servant of Servants most of all)...and both my father and I agreed that he was a very knowledgeable but humble man who brought warmth and caring to human kind -- even through his sometimes right leaning views.

We were saying that perhaps another man who may have been tried in the furnace, as the Pope had been tried while living in a communist country before becoming Pope, ought to be voted in as his successor.

In our minds, someone of that caliber, humble, knowledgeable and thirsty to alleviate human suffering might come from Africa, or even the Cardinal from communist Cuba (I think his name is Arteaga but I am not sure that is the correct name of the Cuban Cardinal I am thinking of) ... men who have known want and sacrifice and who are still willing to give and give the love of Christ.

Karol Wojtyla was that kind of a man and Karol Wojtyle gave the world just that. I will miss him dearly.

missed him. He was 80, but I still missed him. :hi:

I don't cry when someone has lived a long and honorable life, and will soon go to a much better eternal life in Heaven. Of course we'll miss the holy father, but we shouldn't think of this as a sad or negative thing. It's like a new beginning with a new holy father.

Yeah and for anyone who cares, now is not the best time to read Angels and Demons by Dan Brown. Wait until after the new pope is elected.