The Pope was a product of the Times he grew up in

The Pope was imperfect as we all are, and I think we can all agree that he held some fairly regressive views on the issues of women's rights and gay rights.

These issues are dear to the heart of many members of the liberal/progressive community, and in light of the Pope's death, coupled with his views on these topics, the gut reaction of many of us (myself included) may well be to dance on his grave and say good riddance.

As wrongheaded as I think the Pope was on gays and women, his views can largely be explained, if not necessarily excused, by the time period he grew up in. The Pope came of age in a world where women as second class citizens was an accepted fact of life, and being openly gay was practically a walking death sentence.

While the Pope could have changed his views just as well as anyone, there's more than a kernel of truth to the adage that you "can't teach an old dog new tricks." And if we look across the generational divide, we find rather sharp differences between different age groups when it comes to their views on societal issues such as women's rights and gay rights.

And while we do not take heart in the death of members of the older generation, we can take heart in the fact that as they do pass on, slowly but surely, many of the ideas from their day and age that we find objectionable will pass on with them.

New ideas most often have to be implemented by members of a new generation (abolition, women's sufferage, civil rights, etc). And now that the Pope has passed on, I think we of the progressive community should forgive him for holding on to the ideas of the past, and focus our energy instead on building a brighter future. The world belongs to the living, and thus we should let go our acrimony for the dead. This Pope's time has now passed, ours has not. Let's the make the most of it, and build the kind of society we want for ourselves and our children.

just kidding

Was he a high-end product?

I might be alergic

but not the anaphyactic shock kind... just digestively allergic

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What are you saying? :P

But I also have hope for the future. I know that people say the next Pope will be conservative too, but If nothing else a new Pope will bring a breath of fresh air.

Rest in Peace John Paul II.

I could do without being called the ideology of evil, but being that that book just came out I wonder how much of it the Pope actually wrote. I can dismiss those views like I would just dismiss old Uncle Thaddeus who goes on about all sorts of prejudiced things each Thanksgiving. You only hope that the next Pope will be an enlightened one for our time.

the Catholic doctrine on sex and morality that has been ingrained in the Church for centuries . . . and contrary to popular belief, the Pope isn't free to act alone on matters of deep theological consequence . . . there's a whole political and theological structure in the Vatican that weilds considerable power and that would have a lot to say if the Pope strayed too far from Church doctrine . . .

I am not interested in highly educated people that cannot think past the "time they were born in."

What are you thinking about when you say "I am not interested in highly educated people that cannot think past the "time they were born in."" Who was talking about being "highly educated"? Do you have some sort of predjudice going on here? I've heard some post here were linked to Freeper sites using such language - did you get that attitude from being on Freeper sites? Can you explain your post - it seems like a nonsequitur to me?

"Your response doesn't seem to be directed at the posters point"

Yes, it is, it's directly aimed at the posters point. It talks about being a product of one's environment and generation, and while that's true to an extent, great minds often think and act outside of those boundaries.

Many people don't have this ability and many that do chose to be boxed in, but that fact is PPII was not your average bloke with an IQ of 100 and a low EQ.

Excuses are getting lamer by the hour in this culture.

So yes it is directed at the original posters point.

in my humble opinion - thus the "freeper" reference. I thought the poster made a valid point - can you imagine the pressure the Pope must face to conform to the morays of his generation. If he was radical he would never have been selected as Pope anyway - do you see the point?

leaders overcame?

That-in the end-is what made them "great."

I have no idea what the Pope's IQ was; I said he was highly educated.

What is Martin Luther King, Bobby Kennedy, the Dalai Lama, Gandhi, etc had "bowed down the to social morays?"

Do you see my point?

Bowing down to societal norms does not make one "great."

that it was not an excuse. I do think you missed the point. I agree that "a product of one's time" is not an excuse. But, reading the OP again, I don't think that was the point she was trying to make.

His work to reconcile different religions, for example.

There's plenty of work left for future Popes.

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If your parents beat you while you were growing up, it wasn't "abuse" because they were a "product of their times".

excuses..pathetic.:eyes:

are really trying hard not to really see what someone is trying to say. I'm seeing a few knee jerk reactions to the OP.