We need some common ground on illegal immigration

So I propose a hypothetical bill, and if you have criticism, just speak up. This was more of a mental exercise in what I'd do, but I figure this would be a good thing to encourage discussion. Please, no destructive criticism. There's enough conflict over this issue:

1. Increase funding for border control and customs by several fold and increase the number of trained border guards/customs agents by several fold.

2. Close the US-Mexican/US-Canadian border temporarily until reforms are in place.

3. Increase funding for the Justice Dept. to identify, catalog, and actively track illegal aliens, and fine firms/individuals who knowingly hire illegal aliens to the tune of 10,000 per illegal alien for small firms and 250,000 per illegal alien for corporations with a net worth at or above 10,000,000 and/or 1 to 5 years in prison for all managers who knew about the illegal workers or actively encouraged it.

4. Stream-line citizenship process as much as possible but not at the expense of quality such as learning the English language or the laws of the country.

5. Immediately deport illegal aliens who are wanted for crimes by foreign governments such as rape, murder, etc. or who have committed crimes on US territory not including illegally entering US territory.

6. Fund research to develop technology to aid customs/border control personnel screen foreign imports at the border and at all seaports and airports for bombs, weapons, narcotics, plutonium and other radioactive products, etc.

7. Fund the use unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) in addition to remote sensors if applicable in border regions.

8. Illegal aliens who have been identified and catalogued would be entered into a nation-wide database and would be required to register with local law enforcement or be deported immediately.

9. Illegal aliens who have entered the US after this bill (hypothetical) takes effect will be immediately deported after being entered into the data-base. Illegal aliens who were here prior to the bill taking effect will be given a grace period to apply for citizenship in addition to following rule 8. Failure to apply will result in immediate deportation.

To add: To fund this, I'd like to add that Bush's tax cuts should be rolled back for the richest 5%.

Fine the slave owners who employ illegal aliens for low wages.

the offices of the top Dems of New Mexico, California and Texas.

2. Close the US-Mexican border temporarily until reforms are in place.


You know.. the Canadian one. Like illegals can't use that border, too. Miles and miles of border to patrol...

It is only necessary to imprison the employers of illegal immigrant labor. It would not take a great many prosecutions and sentencings to end the practice.

They have to be addressed as well. They can't just be left to fall through the cracks.

Is the enticement to future flow; with that choked off, the thing ends of itself....

the question is what to do with the illegal aliens already here who were used as workers?

It does not strike me as the major component of the difficulty....

didn't get farther than closing the border...(I am on my way out the door, I'll read more later)

this will severely and negatively impact families who work legally in the US and live in Mexico. Kids in MX, parents go to US during the day, home in PM. Very legal and very common.

And...my dh does business in Mexico about three times a year, should it be closed both ways? you are impacting an American citizen with this as well.

must include mass nationalization for illegals already here allowing the benefits of everything that it means to be an American.

Maybe put an immediate ban on immigration past today and require all illegal aliens to register for citizenship by X date and all who do not register by that day are deported when found. All those who register by X date are put on the short path to full citizenship.

Sounds to me like the national guard should be defending Arizona, Cali, Texas, and New Mexico. Not sent off to Iraq...

out in front and know that there will be labor shortages in 10 years and that the middle class & poor would benefit but it will not be allowed because it would cause so much inflation.

But why is a pro-Oil policy allowed? That cause more inflation. Is inflationary stuff only aloud when it benefits and elite? Quid Pro Quo Mr. President.

the treaties we have with Mexico (since that's the only border you seem concerned about?)

http://www.azteca.net/aztec/guadhida.html



TREATY OF PEACE, FRIENDSHIP, LIMITS, AND SETTLEMENT BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND THE UNITED MEXICAN STATES CONCLUDED AT GUADALUPE HIDALGO, FEBRUARY 2, 1848; RATIFICATION ADVISED BY SENATE, WITH AMENDMENTS, MARCH 10, 1848; RATIFIED BY PRESIDENT, MARCH 16, 1848; RATIFICATIONS EXCHANGED AT QUERETARO, MAY 30, 1848; PROCLAIMED, JULY 4, 1848.

IN THE NAME OF ALMIGHTY GOD
The United States of America and the United Mexican States animated by a sincere desire to put an end to the calamities of the war which unhappily exists between the two Republics and to establish Upon a solid basis relations of peace and friendship, which shall confer reciprocal benefits upon the citizens of both, and assure the concord, harmony, and mutual confidence wherein the two people should live, as good neighbors have for that purpose appointed their respective plenipotentiaries, that is to say: The President of the United States has appointed Nicholas P Trist, a citizen of the United States, and the President of the Mexican Republic has appointed Don Luis Gonzaga Cuevas, Don Bernardo Couto, and Don Miguel Atristain, citizens of the said Republic; Who, after a reciprocal communication of their respective full powers, have, under the protection of Almighty God, the author of peace, arranged, agreed upon, and signed the following:

Treaty of Peace, Friendship, Limits, and Settlement between the United States of America and the Mexican Republic.

(more at link)

but closing the US-Mexico border is not at all practical. There is just too much commerce with many major corporations having people commute between the two countries.

Also, I'd actually scrutinize the amnesty process for those that have already entered based on the amount of time they have already spent here and I would put them in the list of potential applicants behind the thousands waiting legally to obtain permanent residency status legally.

... of illegal immigration into this country?

If not, begin your proposals with a solution to that problem, and you will have solved the problem, rather than treating symptoms as causes.

Cheers.

1. rescind the totalization agreement w/ Mexico that gives
US social security benefits to Mexico illegal aliens (it's incredible
cross, prove you worked somewhere in the US for 2 months
and qualify...it's a better deal than for US citizens...
I mean, get real, this is the program that's in crisis? I wonder why?
Cross the border work for 2 months and get 400 bucks extra in old age).

2. Revamp the social security system so no more fake social security
numbers

(a lot of how illegals are getting around is you can buy a fake
social security number and identity for about 60 bucks and it works
great)

3. Fine employers extensivel as in major millions of dollars
no "slap on the wrist" fines (Wal-mart).

4. Deport immediately all illegals suspected of a felony

5. Close the borders

I just don't know about amnesty. On one hand there are 23M illegal
aliens in the US...you can't deport everybody on the other
hand giving amnesty will encourage others to cross...on the
other hand, wiping out this massive underground economy
that undercuts American wages and benefits is really important.

I also don't know what I think about anchor babies..

I sure do know what I think about the use of fake social security
numbers to work the social services system and that one is
completely unfair for you can work plus get Medicaid
and believe me, you must be dead (i.e. you can have no money
to qualify for Medicaid normally and a real social security number
shows that.

Thanks for bringing up the topic.

and put enormous pressure on Mexico to stop being so corrupt and
exploitative...

their answer to their extremely unequal economy is to recommend
their citizens jump the border.

NAFTA hurt Mexicans just as bad as Americans (if not worse) the
std. of living further declines.

If Mexico was more of a democracy (that in name only) the US wouldn't
be seeing such a flood.

It's rigged so that multinationals find the cheapest labor at the lowest working standards possible, while everyone else is uprooted and slammed. I think trade policy though should be devoted to a separate thread, since it affects our relationship with every other country on the planet as well.

You are all fighting the wrong cause.


Capital crosses borderrs. So should labor.

UNIIONIZE.

Instead of looking to the state to provide law enforcement solutions, organize cross-national labor solutions.

All men & women are our brothers & sisters. Labor conditions must be improved all over the world.

boomers retire. If you give the elites an open door policy on guest workers.. they will just allow workers in when they need them. Wages will not rise for the poor or middle class.

Remember that. That the elites will not tell you but labor will be at a premium in 5 to 10 years. And on for the next 20.

So look at it from that vantage point.

Guest workers may not be the way to go. The elites sure as hell love it when the economics work in their favor. Why shouldn't the middle class and the poor have a chance at increasing wages? It means that inflation may be a problem.. but if you stop it with the fossil oil fast enough.. and stop it with the wars.. it would be a great thing for the middle class to enjoy.

But that will never happen. But good to point out that not devoting all of America's might to alternative energy sources in the next 10 years means that Oil companies will be making money hand over fist and guest workers will keep from wages rising at the same time. So that the elites can enjoy no inflation (inflation kills the middle class and elites..it kills savings).

Why shouldn't the Oil companies be the ones that give up the win-fall and face very stiff competition from alternative fuels and strict Kyoto protocol. Why is it the middle class that has to give up their windfall (what they would make in the labor shortage crisis) by facing labor competition from guest workers.

Why is the cost of oil allowed to go up so much - but not wages. It seems to me that if an argument can be made that guest workers are needed... an argument can be made that alternative fuels and Kyoto are needed just as much to stop inflation.

This goes to how we Democrats need to know our economics or the elites will rob us blind. They know enough about economics to get away with it.

People come here because they know there is a job market.

How about we start with: mandatory 20 years in prison for knowingly hiring multiple illegal alliens in a commercial enterprise?

If you think it's too soft, okay. That's fair enough, but a 10,000 fine for having just one illegal immigrant on your work rolls, especially if you're a small business owner such as those cheap-ass owners of car wash businesses out in California who were busted a few years ago for using illegals, is probably enough to hurt you and send a clear message, and if you have more than a few illegals on your work rolls, chances are you just sank your own business without having to go to prison if we go by Rule 3.

Pretty soon, other people who are watching are going to get the idea in their head that hiring illegal aliens is no longer "economically feasible."

Besides, there's enough folks in the prison system as it is when we toss in folks because they're guilty of having something such as weed.

With some minor amendment, your list of 9 (strike #2, make that 8) goals pretty much describes what DHS has already set out to accomplish.

Of course, that same database and mass round up approach, once fully funded and developed, can also be used against domestic opponents of Herr Boosh regime. And you've even figured out a way to fund it.

Congratulations!



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my dad own business. i know in the 80's? they aggressively went after employers for green cards, adn he didnt miss with it at all. the fine was large enough. you have to stop the demand. so the penalty of hiring illegal has to be great enough, and an increase in the department that would physically go out and check corporation to make sure they werent hiring illegals

have to cut off the source. i think that will be the greatest way to cut back on illegals