Pedophile enabler bastards to pick next pope.

Yep, the very same men that are now politicking for the next mouthpiece of god, helped the child molesters walk free.
Transferred them to new towns, to unsuspecting children.
Lied and covered up their crimes.
And this pope was in the unique position to make it right...well, maybe not for the kids, but better, maybe.
But he DID NOTHING!
I am seething in anger, what with all this worship of the pope.
I have dealt with the rage and self-loathing of being abused when I was a child.
I had a real tough time coming to grips with the shame and guilt of that whole mess.
I realize now that I was trying to kill myself, through drugs, alcohol and death deifying stunts that would curl your hair.
You see, I blamed myself.
I have quit all the self destructive behavior.
Therapy, and an understanding wife did wonders for me.
I no longer use drugs and haven't drank for almost a year now.

These sanctimonious bastards have inflicted massive pain and suffering on thousands of people.

By allowing them to continue to rape children and then covering it up is a crime so monstrous that it boggles my mind.

So all you folks shedding a tear for the pope, give a thought to the innocent children that have suffered because of him and the freaks that will select the next one.

So, blast away, I have been through the fire and am still here, you can't do any worse.

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this is a genuine gripe, especially if one has been personally effected. Poo pooing this is really bad form.

If not, your response is what I expect from someone who hasn't.

Don't attack me for your views. She said the same thing you were saying this morning almost verbatim. "The pope is going to hell and is a pedophile enabler." There are other Stern listeners here. Don't take my word for it.

Let me add one thing. I am helping a candidate here in NY partly for this reason. Part of her platform is cleaning up the church. It has been ignored by a right wing catholic DA. These people have tough stories too. I am just letting you know that you aren't the only one saying these things and people are doing something about it.

I have been calling them that for years.

Thank-you and I'm so sorry for everything you've been through :hug:

the son killed himself when he was 18. :cry:

I love the Church, but the hierarchy is more corrupt than any Fortune 500 corporation.

I'm so sorry you had to endure that kind of hell. :hug:

I remember hearing something about that. Big hugs to you all :hug:

And people NEED to quit worshiping celebrity figures,political figures,and authority figures and putting them above the law.
The pope did things politically expedient,for the organization he was running,just because it granted human rights to some it was inconsistent because he did nothing for the catholics abused by his servant priests.

I would like to see a pope with COURAGE to come clean about the church's atrocities,come clean about the pedophile issue, come clean and return all the stolen wealth taken from other countries over time,come clean about the information they sit on and let EVERYONE have access to the ENTIRE Vatican library,so they too may see the documents the church stole and suppressed in their ruthless desire for total world domination..

and their higher angels set the agenda.

n/t

and for all the other innocent children who have been and still are being abused. I can't begin to imagine what you've been through.

But please don't condemn all priests for the actions of a few - not all of them are sanctimonious bastards, I have known many who are truly good people.

Perhaps the next Pope will choose to be proactive and work towards exposing and weeding out the abusers; those who give the rest a bad name. That's my hope.

Just the ones who lied and covered it up.
And I guarantee you that some sitting there today getting ready to pick the next one, knew and did nothing.

That made me so mad :mad:

And you're right - some of those cardinals have dark, dark secrets they'll take with them to the grave.
Even though I hope the next Pope will be progressive (call it a fantasy, if you will) - it won't happen. The next one will be chosen to maintain the status quo; things will remain the same.

and choosing the next Pope were in on the cover-up, and it infuriates me. I believe one of the cover-up offenders in the NE was elevated to a staion at the Vatican. When that happened, I lost respect for this Pope.

But have been thinking all week.

This is the message that needs to get out. This man and his organization enabled the torture of children.

...but I think these few rotten apples were dealt with by the criminal justice system, as it should have been.

after covering up hundreds of cases of sexual abuse. I think the Church hierarchy needs to go on trial for conspiracy.

:mad:

he will be a voter.

I live in Nassau County NY. There is a diocese in Rockville Centre. The DA is a Catholic Republican from RVC. He hasn't done jack shit. He protects the church. I met one victim just the other day. he is a little older than me (I'm 28). He looks like a normal guy, but you can see the pain in his eyes. It's tough stuff. There have been many cases that haven't been dealt with and several are on LI.

committed child abuse, and that figure may be 10%. That's hardly a 'few rotten apples'.

http://www.indcjournal.com/archives/000070.php

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3421163

because of the homosexuality that was allowed. He even said there was a special room set up in the seminary for the students to have sex with each other.

While I do not equate homosexuals with pedophiles, it is an example of the rampant hypocrisy displayed by this organization to ALLOW priests to engage in what they are preaching is sin!

too bad the catholic church cannot recognize that.

meeting him!

even after the truth about the pedophile priests began to emerge. I noted to many that the church is the people not the hierarchy. However, when Law was promoted to that cushy position in Rome, I gave in to the truth - this organization is just plain evil, as is much of what professes to be Christian today.

I'm sorry to offend so many good and decent Catholics and Christians. My family, except for my son, is made up entirely of devoted Christians of many flavors - from fundamentalist to liberal. My daugther is a faithful Catholic and bringing up my grandchildren in that church.

I've dealt for close to 20 years now with the devastating and far-reaching effects of child moletation. Both my children were molested and I don't know that my son will ever be able to lead a normal life. We struggle constantly with this. I have no sympathy for any of them and cannot and will not forgive the molestor in my family nor those who have molested innocent children the world over.

I was just thinking about this same thing, last night. This court, or whoever they are, are about to choose another "pope" that could very well have molested many children. It rather hypocritical, isn't it?

btq-stick with your therapy and don't let that great wife of yours go.

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I had lost my password and by the time I got back the message that so out raged me had been deleted.
I am a 58 year old man that was not only abused and molested but it was by a close male family member and the story gets darker than that, but that is private.
It has taken years, estrangement from my family and yes drugs. As a result I was always in a survival mode for jobs since I could not hold one. I just want to ruined those of you who might think it is a small thing, well it isn't .It answer my life
I am so happy that the replies to this guys message have been understanding. I do not post very often because once again I am unemployed and looking for work....not an easy task for a man of my age with really very few modern skills
I did not write all this to have people feel sorry for me, but I think this is more widespread than though and it makes my blood boil to have people take a so what attitude.
I will now go back to my lurker status, and of this posted , well thanks

you need to be able to talk to someone.
Please, PLEASE go see someone.
I still have bouts of depresion, but life is so much better now.
Take care of yourself.

...would be so callous about such a difficult issue. I once saw an interview with Kirstie Alley in which she told abuse sufferers to "stop playing victim and just get over it." I haven't been able to even look at the woman since then. It's a good thing I never really liked Cheers that much. :)

Well, here I am, another abuse survivor. :hi: And yes, it happened in a church and the members of the church took the side of the abuser. At this point, I'm not shocked by the cruel things people say to survivors (having been on the receiving end many, many times), but I am disgusted.

I just couldn't let this whole thing go without speaking up.
See, that was my whole problem, as a man you are taught to bottle up pain.
It damned near killed me.
It is like a bell that was struck starting when I was 5 and reverberates to this day, 43 years later.

...there have been enough flames in GD. I didn't really want to get into the middle of a flame war. Maybe I just did...hehe.

Let me just say I totally agree with you. Shame on the Roman Catholic Church for allowing this to go on. I believe that the same thing happens in Protestant churches. I've seen it happen, as a matter of fact. I was abused in a church by a church member and one of my pastors in another church turned out to be a molester of small boys. However, Protestant churches don't have the same structure as the Roman Catholic Church, so the pedophilia going on in these churches will never be spot-lighted.

or dispassion without reference to the security/intelligence files on him, the P2 Lodge and the Catholic Church since 1918.

In the UK the custodians of these documents are members of President Harry S Truman's family, a cousin of Margaret Truman Daniel - Harry's daughter - and his wife.

Those who have had any kind of access to these papers - mainly senior law enforcement professionals, lawyers, diplomats etc - will know that there has been a mega cover-up regarding the personal/identity of "John Paul 2". And that these were ordered on the specific instructions of Ronald Reagan.

The evidence held in these papers says: Carol Wojtyla was murdered prior to 1955 and replaced by a Russian lookalike - Peter Gelli, cousin of Licio (currently in the slammer awaiting resumption of the Rome murder trial of "God's Banker" Roberto Calvi).

Peter Gelli was the logistical brains behind the Banco Ambrosiano heist which ended up with its collapse, the bankruptcy of the Vatican Bank and the murder of Calvi.

Prior to that, he and the Polish prelate who has used the identity of "Archbishop Stanislaw Dziwisz" - JP2's personal secretary at the Vatican - conspired to murder John Paul 1 - the Pope who lasted a mere 33 days and was hurriedly buried in 1978 without any inquest/autopsy. Because JP1 was going to have the P2 Lodge arrested and handed over to the civil authorities.

The 1978 election of "Carol Wojtyla" was orchestrated by collaboration between the CIA, KGB and MI6 to protect the child sex abuse backgrounds of Ronald Reagan and various Hollywood luminaries.

The evidence of all the Vatican's paid up members of the P2 Lodge is now with Rome prosecutors in the Calvi trial. This includes all the child rape/torture trials held in the UK and Europe in the 60s and 70s and consistently gagged from the press by successive UK Prime Ministers. Also the personal testimonies of those children who survived the appalling attacks on them by the P2 Lodge and, subsequently, the Children of God cult.

Also forming part of this block of testinomy are the proven links to Margaret Thatcher's whitewashing of the involvement of Robert Maxwell in the P2 Lodge.

A good book on Maxwell is:
Robert Maxwell was an Israeli Spy:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/page.cfm?objectid=12419168&method=full&siteid=50143

A good book on the murder of John Paul 1 is:
In God's Name by David Yallop:
http://www.yallop.co.uk/in_god's_name.htm

A good book on the rise of "Carol Wojtyla" and the P2 Lodge is:
The Broken Cross by Piers Compton:
http://www.rense.com/general49/cross.htm

THANK YOU for having the courage to say what you did in your post.

I don't know of any survivors of these outrages who feel any different.

EDIT: I too was deeply shocked that many DU apologias this week failed to mention that at least 4,500 US Catholic priests are known to be involved in the systematic rape and torture of minors in the last 50 years and that this cover up went to both the heart of the White House and the Vatican.

......applaud you, Dave, and tell you that heroes like you will keep the world aware of all that matters.

I vote for your subject line as the best - and most honest - I've ever seen in my short time at DU.

As for the Roman Catholics who are grieving, well, there's not much anyone can do when a collective hysteria and delusion grip true believers, and I leave them to their pain. But, if they'd stop for a moment and consider the damage done to real people by the Church and how it was all "managed" and covered up and how the Church is now yowling because the civil judgments against it have cost it so much, perhaps some of those professional virgins in the Vatican might be made uncomfortable enough to begin to do things in a human, honest, compassionate, and courageous way.

Don't hold your breath, though.

And, once again, BRAVO, Dave..................................

Very sorry for your pain.

Just as they abused children, they continue to abuse power. It's no coincidence that the structure and operations of the church is like that of royalty (just turn on the TV to see the pomp and circumstance).

Sadly, as stated above, I can't see anything other than continuing the statis quo. It will be decades before any apology is forthcoming.
As long as there is no revolt, there will be no reform.

by the P2 Lodge is about to resume.
Last April City of London Police submitted a reported 70 boxes of what was termed "previously unavailable evidence" on the P2 Lodge - a paedophile organisation run by the KGB/Stasi since 1957 that had infiltrated public life as a cold war strategy of control of the western world.

Anyone who has been connected with the gathering of this evidence will be much heartened that this will now be heard in open court at last.

Anyone who was ever a victim of these perverts and is a survivor/witness today now has hope.

Remember the first Pope John Paul?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3412165

Not being a Catholic (and being a kid more interested in partying), I only have vague memories of JP's death. Very interesting.

et al....

The role of George Bush Senior, first as CIA head, then VP to Raygun and then as Bush1 President was seminal in covering up the membership, activities and criminality of the paedophile P2 Lodge.

That JP2 was able to continue his fake pontificate without any checks on the clergy's abuse of the young is all down to Poppy.

The God's Banker murder trial in Rome later this spring should prove very interesting for all those following this goddawful saga.

But I do appreciate all the kind words.
It is good to vent my feelings, rather then drown them with booze and dope.
Thanks, mods and DU for allowing me to get this off my chest...
whew...

again, this Church hierarchy is more corrupt than a lot of Fortune 500 corporations, and it's sad to see spiritual leaders band together to cover up a great evil. :-(

The President of the United States "condones" pedophiles by virtue of his trip to Rome to pay respects to the leader of these perverts and those who covered for them?

Start the SPIN. KKKarl would. :evilgrin:

Statistically, police are more likely to beat their wives, and I believe you would readily see the flaw in this reasoning.

I am not sure that Catholic Priests molest more children than Protestant Clergymen do.

The protestant bigots who are pushing the "Families First" agenda are labeling all single people as deviants with tenancies toward child molesting.

The fact is that most molestations occur between a married parent, (or legal guardian) and their offspring.

having had their child sex abuse offences covered up in the last 50 years. In Europe the number has been reported as around 10,000+.

Catholic dioceses worldwide are being bankrupted as they fight to settle the abuse lawsuits.

The collusion of law enforcement agencies with politicians of all persuasions has meant the coverups of this horror have flourished.

There are roughly 80%more Catholic clergy than Protestants worldwide.

I would be surprised if the percentage of pedophile Catholic Priests was any higher than pedophile Protestant Preachers.

Take a look at the "Bible Belt" Statistically, that region is a pit of assault and sin. There is more divorce and spousal abuse cases than anywhere else in the US

numbers pro rata. Of the reported US figures of 4,500 Catholic priests involved in child sex abuse there is no available comparison for Anglican abusers.

While that is a truely alarming number of pedophile priests (extrordinary actually), I still wonder how many protestant preachers are guilty of the same crime.

As most children are molested by married heterosexual men, I believe this problem cannot be simply dumped upon one particular religious group. The conservative controlled media is biased toward reporting Catholic vs Protestant abuses.

I recently read one account of the Principle of the "Agape Christian School" had molested some children, but it never made the national news. It had a small write up in the Detroit News, but the bulk of the reporting was a small local paper. Had this been a "Catholic" molestation, then I feel it would have gotten a national glance.

Please cite your source for the 4500 Catholic Priests. I would like to look into this further.

wiLL figure out how to keep the LittLe snitches quiet and keep the money coming in.

i'LL just find another church to give my money to.

I was never abused by a priest but I can't forgive what the church did for so many years. If other people die their obituaries tell the whole story not just the pretty parts. We're all supposed to forget that hundreds if not thousands of children were abused for decades and the church did nothing to stop it but only spread the abuse around. It's still so hush hush that it can never really be trusted to be eradicated if they don't accept responsibility. It's so sick and I have only been enraged by this non-stop pope-a-thon. I've only been imagining what it must feel like for an actual victim. DiverDave I'm sending you good vibes. Congrats on all of the work that you put into healing yourself.

I have long believed the Vatican/hierarchy of the Catholic church is corrupt and hypocritical -- and I say this as someone baptised Catholic with 12 years of Catholic schooling.

They have such a long, nasty history of denying and hiding their very dirty laundry. Back in the day it was their alcoholic priests, then it was their priests with AIDS, and now their pedophile priests. It is always the same with them -- deny there is any problem and do everything they can to pretend it doesn't exist, if it means paying people off or hiding the victims/perpetrators way from public scrutiny. Nothing is every truly resolved, only managed.

The only hope for the future of the RCC is for the Vatican to be ripped down to the core and rebuilt on truth and transparency.

DD, I'm so sorry for your experience.

good to see it stiLL aLive.

the pedophilia scandal was limited to America. There are, out of 120 electors, 11 American electors. The 'pedophile enablers' are not picking the next pope, unless they're last to commit, it's the fourth round of voting, and it's a deadlock.

...doesn't mean that others aren't guilty. It doesn't mean they are, either.

Not true, the Ireland pedophile scandal broke before the US one did. And there are other countries dealing with the same kind of RCC scandal. Google it.

On edit:

To read about the RCC pedophile scandal in Ireland:

http://www.boston.com/globe/spotlight/abuse/stories3/111102_ireland.htm

To read about the RCC pedophile scandals in Chile, Poland, Australia, Canada, France, Belgium, South Africa and other countries:

http://www.pulitzer.org/year/2003/public-service/works/globe14.html

The problem with the RCC and pedophiles is widespread -- there's no getting around that fact. So DD is indeed correct -- a lot of pedohpile enablers will be picking the next Pope.

There was also a big stink down under.

The priest who molested me was someone who would regularly visit our parish for R & R. His normal gig was doing missionary work in Africa. With the poor black children. Care to poi dog ponder over that?

Where do you get your information? It's worldwide. It gained the most publicity here first, and then scandals broke open in other countries. Sheesh.

have had huge problems. Peodphilia and the priesthood has many bedfollows in every land. You really should confine your remarks to what you can show a link to.

www.bishopaccountability.org

www.snap.org

www.linkup.org

I think this is even worse. how many millions have died
in places like africa because the pope condemned birth control
and even condoms to protect from AIDS.

That man had the blood of millions of innocents on his hands -- in Africa and in all those Latin American countries where women are likely to die in child birth or of an unsafe termination -- for refusing to set aside a self-serving doctrine in order to save lives.

instead of being promoted to Rome.

But surely there are some good priests out there. What happened to you was horrible, but you can't condemn all of them. The best way to ensure this never happens again would be to support the good ones and help them get to high office instead of assholes like Law.

"The best way to ensure this never happens again would be to support the good ones and help them get to high office instead of assholes like Law."

What you are suggesting is utterly impossible to do - the RCC is simpkly not structured that way. The RC laity have dick to do with who gets appointed to various posts -- the existing power stucture has the only say in the matter. And if the existing power structure is corrupt, nothing changes. And that, in a nutshell, is exactly what is wrong with the RCC.

and all kinds of corruption from "the man". All those powerful authorities seemed impossible to change, but people changed them anyway.

Exposing the abuses and the elaborate cover-ups was a start. If the laity make a big enough noise, the leadership will listen or risk losing their power.

It is my sincere belief that the Catholic Church will never be able to satisfy you in whatever choices they make regarding this matter.

The people on DU in the Pope threads and elsewhere who are in mourning will never have the perspective you do. They have never had to defend their innermost selves against the church, in the effort to survive.

I know how it is; been there, done that.

It doesn't help anyone or anything to direct your anger at the lay people who were not directly responsible. Now, you're asking them to defend theirselves, as you did. Who do you think they'll choose to align with: you, or the church where they may find comfort in ritual and god knows what else?

PS - have you ever tried reporting the abuse to your parish? I did that last year and found out just how chickenshit they are. It did wonders for my outlook.

accept or understand the magnitude of child sex abuse in the Catholic Church or that its cover up went to the very heart of the Vatican - aided and abetted in the Ronald Reagan/Bush1 years by the White House.

In Europe there is much more information freely available about this because of the Rome murder trial of "God's Banker" Roberto Calvi, who bankrupted the Vatican bank in 1982 and was murdered for his trouble.


FYI:
Calvi was found hanging under Blackfriars Bridge in Central London in mid June 1982. Until late 2003 this was treated as a "suicide" and successive UK Prime Ministers and Home Secretaries blocked any serious attempt to investigate the matter.

Then in late 2003/early 2004 the suicide verdict was overturned after new forensic evidence pointed unequivocally to murder.

Various members of the P2 Lodge - a paedophile masonic cult that operated within the Vatican since 1957 and was controlled by the KGB and the Stasi - were arrested: Licio Gelli, Flavio Carboni etc.

Then another breakthrough in April last year: the City of London Police uncovered a reported 70 boxes of "previously unavailable evidence" regarding the perpetrators of the collapse of the Vatican Bank and the connection to the Calvi murder.

The trial was adjourned to allow Rome prosecutors to wade through the evidence. It is expected to resume in the next few weeks.

In the US the coverage of this story has been very sketchy. Not least because George Bush Senior strenuously defended the Vatican's Cardinal Marcinkus - the ipso facto CEO of the Vatican Bank at the time, and absolved him in public of any wrong doing.

When he became Preisdent, Bush1 even gave Marcinkus complete immunity from prosecution because - in his words - "Calvi clearly committed suicide" and Marcinkus thus couldn't possibly be charged with conspiracy to murder.

That was before new forensic techniques debunked the suicide theory.

The role of Reagan and Bush1 (as Veep) in the fiasco of the Banco Ambrosiano bankruptcy and Calvi murder is far greater and more potentially damaging to the US Republican party than was ever imagined.

And having gone on the record in defending Marcinkus, Poppy now hasn't a leg to stand on.....

For all those professionally involved in either reporting (as journalists) the Calvi/Ambrosiano fiasco and/or Reagan/Bush1 cover up, this is daunting.

For all those who were savagely abused by a fiendish bent cabal that relied on Big Government to cover up their foul crimes, the pain must still throb day by day.

But for all those who believe that justice will be done when the Rome murder trial resumes this Spring, it gives hope that the perpetrators and those who lied and covered up for them will now be brought to account in public.

Self-defense abounds.

To take a persons trust & faith & use it to commit the most vile acts an adult can with children.

There is only one cure for scum like this and it doesn't involve therapy.


"I have quit all the self destructive behavior.
Therapy, and an understanding wife did wonders for me.
I no longer use drugs and haven't drank for almost a year now."

Peace

pedo priest is in a nursing home in Spokane rather than jail, a thing I cannot fathom at all- for a million dollars. The next story in the news was how the Church cannot help immigrants with their legal problems any more, its too expensive. Cause and effect?

within organized religion.

They should be punished to the fullest extent of the law NO EXCEPTIONS
You're right the Catholic church has payed out BILLIONS in claims because of these monsters & there is a lot less money for good works & outreach.

The problem has not gone away

just farther underground.

thanks for sharing your perspective with us, as hard as it may have been.

that you've gotten better from the wrong that was done to you and you have a great spouse. Best of luck and a happy life. My opinion is that all of the enabling bishops should be in jail, not just the perpetrators because they are guilty as well.

I was not abused by a priest, it was an older boy (16 or so when it started) that was the son of my moms friend...

Sometimes the strongest thing one can do to deal with abuse is to speak out about it.

I have been mystified that people are talking about this pope being a saint. Blatantly ignoring the abuse of thousands of children just doesn't cut it in the sainthood category.

:sarcasm:

But the deadpope was such a champion of liberty or something or another.