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Neocons Target Vatican: Pick-a-Pope for PNAC

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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-05 10:03 AM
Original message
Neocons Target Vatican: Pick-a-Pope for PNAC
Edited on Tue Apr-05-05 10:04 AM by sparosnare
Wayne Madsen
Online Journal
April 5, 2005

The dream candidate of the neocons for the next pope is the Archbishop of Vienna, Cardinal Christoph Schoenborn. According to a major neocon media outlet of convenience, The Jerusalem Post, Schoenborn, on a recent visit to the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, echoed the Christian Zionist line of George W. Bush, Tom DeLay, Newt Gingrich, and neocon Catholic and New American centurion Michael Novak. Schoenborn referred to Israel as "God's chosen land" for the Jewish people. Responding to the comments of a clearly pained Palestinian priest, who questioned the cardinal on his support for Israel's usurpation of Palestinian lands and homes, basically said that as a refugee from war time Czechoslovakia he understood the pain of refugees. Commenting further, Schoenborn said that was a matter of international law while the Jews' inheritance of the Holy Land trumped international law because it was prophesized in the Bible and that all Christians should embrace Zionism as the fulfillment of that Biblical prophecy.

Although Pope John Paul II established diplomatic relations with Israel and was the first pope to visit a synagogue, he was also cognizant of the Holy See's responsibility to Catholicism's flocks in Palestine and other Arab lands. For example, he maintained close links to the late Palestinian President Yasir Arafat.

John Paul II was not only strongly opposed to George W. Bush's unprovoked invasion of Iraq but came out vocally against Bush's father's Desert Storm invasion. Speaking to ABC's This Week on April 3, Jim Nicholson said that during his last meeting with the pope in March, before he departed his post as American ambassador to the Vatican to take up the position as secretary of Veterans Affairs, the pope wanted to know where Bush intended to take America in the world with its awesome temporal power. It is no secret that the late pope had no time for Bush and his bellicose and aggressive ways and, according to well-placed journalists for Catholic Italian newspapers whom I spoke to in 2003, the pope commented to some of his closest assistants that what he feared most in Bush was the coming of the Antichrist as prophesized in the Book of Revelation. It was the fear of the arrival of the Antichrist during his priesthood that plagued John Paul II since his earlier years in Poland.

Not waiting for John Paul II's burial, the neocons are already working behind the scenes to ensure that the next pope will be as compliant with their global agenda as Pius XII was with the National Socialists and Fascists. It is up to Catholic leaders like Lustiger and his fellow likeminded Cardinals who believe in John Paul II's views on human rights and global survival to confront the machinations of the neocons and their favored candidates, Schoenbron and Nigerian Cardinal Francis Arinze.

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Commentary/040505Madsen/040505madsen.html



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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-05 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
1. Look, paper ballots are sooo 13th centrury...
We at Diebold believe that the Vatican can update it's image with today's Internet generation by adopting our new Touch-Screen-For-Christ voting system - complete with the proprietary Accu-Smoke(tm) plaza alert feature!
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-05 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
2. God help us...we can't even be free of pnacers in the Roman CC
heirarchy. Please God, not this man. Not a pnacer for Pope.
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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-05 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. This is too scary to comprehend
I don't like it one bit. :scared:
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-05 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
4. Isn't Schoenborn the frontrunner?
I believe that's what I heard on Nightline, and also that the old saying about frontrunners at the Vatican is "walk in a Pope, walk out a Cardinal."
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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-05 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. He's one of them , but he may be too young
Here's the top 25 frontrunners:

Tettamanzi
Arinze
Ratzinger
Hummes
Lustiger
Sodano
Daneels
Sepe
Biffi
Dias
Count Christoph von Schoenborn
Jaime Lucas Ortega y Alamino
Ennio Antonelli
Giovanni Battista Re
Crescenzio Sepe
Cardinal Dario Castrillion Hoyos
Giacomo Biffi
Jorge Mario Bergoglio
Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone
Jean-Marie Lustiger
Keith O Brien
Godfried Daneels
Cardinal Angelo Scola
Jose Da Cruz Policarpo
Angelo Sodano
Norberto Rivera Carrera
Ivan Dias
Juan Luis Cipriani
Cardinal Carlo Maria Martina
Sean Patrick OMalley
Miloslav Vlk (Czech Republic)
Cormac Murphy-OConnor
Cardinal Marco Ce
Wilfred Napier (South Africa)
Cardinal George Pell
Cardianl Ruini
Cardinal Edward Cassidy
Silvano Piovanelli
Diarmuid Martin
Cardinal Edward Clancy
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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-05 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
5. Make absolutely no mistake about it...
the neocon's have very deep inroads into the Vatican. The most recent example was the Vatican's statement about Terri Schiavo. I don't believe for a minute that JPII knew much at all, if anything about that statement when it came out. Especially when you consider his condition at the time. I think that was just an example of the neocon's network at work.

I don't know much about Schoenborn. But, if it's true what this says, there is very much to fear.
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norml Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-05 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
7. Recommended for Homepage
Edited on Tue Apr-05-05 10:35 AM by norml
Religion : Who Will Be The Next Pope?
Monday, 30 July 2007
Show all bookmakers

Bookmaker Betting Exchange
Dionigi Tettamanzi (Italy) 11/4
3.6/1

Francis Arinze (Nigeria) 11/4
7/1

Oscar Rodriguez Maradiaga (Honduras) 9/2
7.2/1

Joseph Ratzinger (Germany) 7/1
13/1

Claudio Hummes (Brazil) 9/1
9.5/1



Click on the odds to place a bet!
All odds checked since 16:31 PM UK



The next Pope specualation is now in full swing and Paddy Power have had to make their first signification alteration to their initial odds.

In the days leading up to the death Pope John Paul II, readaBet.com published an article identifying a few of the major candidates.

At the time it was noted that Dionigi Tettamanzi was the 5/2 favourite. The Italian cardinal now has some company at the top of the list with Francis Arinze now the joint 11/4 favourite.


snip




http://www.readabet.com/index.php/home/article/7268
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-05 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
8. When I think of the Vatican...
I think of the world's largest and richest corporation the world has ever known.

Let's hope spiritual concerns take precedent over monetary considerations when the new head of the Vatican is selected.
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TygrBright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-05 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. I hate to disillusion you...
...and believe me, I hold no brief for the Vatican.

But the FACTS are that the Vatican actually controls only a very modest capital of liquid wealth.

Most of the value of the Vatican patrimony is in the form of priceless art, architecture, and cultural artifacts. It costs the Vatican plenty to curate these. They invest quite a bit in caring for this cultural heritage, and do a decent job of keeping it accessible, considering the masses of material and their limited resources. Certainly they do a better job than any other single government, and there is a considerable intangible value to having that bulk of material under one coordinated curatorship, as opposed to dispersed.

Aside from the vast "capital value" of artwork, buildings, manuscripts, artifacts, etc., the Vatican's assets are quite modest.

Yes, if you added up the value of every Catholic Church and the ground it stands on, plus the bank accounts of every parish, diocese, etc., all around the world, the sum would be staggering. But the practical truth is, the Vatican has no control over anything but its own revenues, which are mostly allocated to the basic operating costs of the Vatican City State, the Roman diocese, St. Peter's Basilica, the Curia, the various Dicasteries (Church government 'departments') etc.

The Vatican City State employs about 1500 people. The Holy See employs about another 2,500. Not large by any standards.

The salary of a Cardinal in the employ of the Holy See works out to about $35,000-$40,000 a year, plus free housing, but they pay their own utitilities and household expenses.

Other employees are actually paid on a more liberal scale that takes into account seniority, number of dependents, job rating, etc. Lay employees get overtime; religious do not. Otherwise there's little difference.

The Vatican Bank has been through a lot of scrutiny lately; as have the auditing and financial operations of the Administration for the Patrimony. They just computerized in the 90s and their bookkeeping system was originally set up in the 19th Century, so the progress they've made has been slow, but reasonable considering what they're up against. The Bank manages investments, but its strategy is very conservative, which means the returns are reliable, but modest. They are also guided by the moral principles of the church-- they don't invest in pharmaceutical companies that manufacture birth control, don't invest in war material producers, etc.

Most of the "Peter's Pence" revenue collected from Catholics for the Vatican is earmarked directly for spiritual and charitable works under the various projects for Refugees, for Health Care Workers, Interreligious Dialogue, etc. Still, it's less than $150 million a year, and that doesn't go far nowadays.

pedantically,
Bright
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-05 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Not disillusioned... better informed
One thing you left out was all the land owned by the church(es)....

Many a soul has given over their earthly posessions to the church. I can think of several properties in my small town.

So the overhead is a bit high, but the taxes are low. I still think of the Catholic Church, with it's headquarters in the Vatican, as the worlds largest corporation. Ever.
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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-05 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
9. kick! n/t
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doublethink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-05 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
10. Revelations 12:11-12 .....
"11": And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
"12": And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed...... " Oh I don't know, I still think it's more possible that Bush is this lamb beast and somehow the 'veri' chip will be named 'Reagan' .... but who know's they both were and are war-mongers. I kinda thought the timing of the Popes death has been erie though. Last thing we need is the new Pope mis-leading his flock .... Geesh .... Peace. :)
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-05 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. another beast


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doublethink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-05 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. That's too funny ....
Yea there's a lot of um in this administration ! And I need to correct the above post it was REV 13:11-12 ... anyway this part of the orginal article doesn't sit well with me ....

"For the neocons, Schoenborn would become a rubber stamp for America's plans for global domination. Like Pope Pius XII who gave a wink and a nod to Adolf Hitler's conquests, Schoenborn would see Washington's continued wars as fulfillment of his interpretation of biblical prophecy. In that respect, Schoenborn would complement Bush's other religious supporters—Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, James Dobson, and Sun Myung Moon—and bolster the neocon movement with the might of the Vatican. The result of such a power shift would help bring Latin America, Catholic Europe, Francophone Africa, and parts of Asia firmly within the American sphere of influence. snip ... Peace :)
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-05 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
13. Are we talking Illuminati? Also, think Austria....Arnold....n/t
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Theres-a Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-05 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
14. It can't be Schoenborn
Peter of rome will have to wait his turn.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-05 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
15. How much of the Roman CC is aware of the ideology of this
Cardinal Schoenborn?

Second question...how do the neocons 'work behind the scenes'.

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TygrBright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-05 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Answers:
Q: >>How much of the Roman CC is aware of the ideology of this Cardinal Schoenborn?<<

A: Not much. American Catholics have had other concerns lately, and like Americans in general, if it's off in some furrin' place, they don't pay too much attention. That said, there is a pretty decent core group of activist liberal Catholics who keep an eye on such things, but they have little influence in the larger Church. Certainly not since JPII undertook to replace every retiring/dead American Bishop with a Ratzinger clone.

Q: >>Second question...how do the neocons 'work behind the scenes'.<<

A: See "Opus Dei"

helpfully,
Bright
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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-05 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
18. kick n/t
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