Minutemen Are Not Simply Excercising Their "Free Speech" Rights

Minuteman Project participants are harassing, intimidating, frisking, interrogating and "capturing" people in the streets who "speak Spanish" and look like they might be "illegal" pedestrians. They are demanding citizenship papers!

Who the hell do they think they are? They have no right to demand anything from people who are walking the streets of this nation or shopping peacefully. What about our rights? What about our right to travel safely and unmolested in the streets by right-wing wackos? These self-appointed right-wing guardians of immigration law have no constitutional right to molest, harass or "capture" anyone!

If any private person came up to me and demanded "papers" I'd give them fair warning and if they persisted I'd pop them in the nose!

What will these vigilantes do next? Perhaps stop motorists, hijack cars and demand our driver's license and proof of insurance to make sure we are legal?

Not without a fight!

If the government won't do it's job, the citizenry will. It's my impression that the "Minutemen" aren't approaching the border.

...who think that Jesus is on their side. Quite sad if you ask me.

oh yeah....THE NAZIS not to mention the KGB and Stasi more recently....

...and they have the fucking audacity to evoke the name of those who fought against the tyranny of the english crown? they should all be ashamed of themselves.....

The Nazis scapegoated Jews and "communists" for Germany's economic crisis. The Minuteman outfit is scapegoating Latinos and blaming them for unemployment, downsizing, outsourcing and corporate cuts in pay and benefits!

Outfits like the Minuteman can become a fertile breeding ground for incipient fascist organizations. Authentic fascist organizations will find their first recruits in organizations like the Minuteman Project.

And they will recruit some frightened "liberals" who are easily confused and misled by right-wing anti-corporate rhetoric. More than a few liberals and even some radicals became fascists and Nazis in Germany and Italy.

Put up the facts or admit you're making it up as you go.

Here is todays online front page for the Arizona Star:

http://www.azstarnet.com/

And here is the same for the Tucson Citizen:

http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/

if you have a source.

I wrote the lead post so I guess that makes me the source. Feel free to post my view on another board if you'd like. I take it you agree with my comment and if so I'm happy you do.

As I suspected.

them. I like that they are willing to chip in to do the job, but you are right, it just leaves too many possiblities for violence. You get a bunch of men with guns together....well you know that testosterone is gonna get out of hand.

I wish that our government that is sooooo concerned about terrorist would protect and defend our borders like the homeland security money is suppose to go for. Instead they spend the homeland securiy money for shrub to visit places that don't want him anyway. The security for shrub is not for terrorists, its for us. The fake president is terrified of his own people.

Even though she was born in the United States. Some asshole thought she and her family were illegals and called the INS. INS came. My great grandfather was a legal citizen but he was away on business. So the whole family was deported to Mexico and my great grandfather wasn't even aware of it until he came home and his house was empty.

These guys want to do the same thing...start intimidating anyone they feel is a threat (you know, for having brown skin). It makes me sick that people defend them.

It has nothing to do at all about Free Speech!! It's about government inactivity and complacency!

The body of your post is bullshit, by the way.

The Minuteman activities have nothing to do with free speech?

The purpose of them being down there is to bring national attention to the government's unwillingness to seriously deal with the illegal immigration issue that Arizona faces.

I thought they were just wandering around the Arizona desert, hoping to spot people crossing the border and report them to the authorities, but winding up tripping the very sensors designed for that purpose.

sites. These people are ecstatic about the Minuteman Project.
Inasmuch as I am against illegal immigration(btw I am a legal immigrant myself), I cannot support this organization. May people who volunteer for this "cause" are probably a bunch of bigots who hate hispanics. I am sorry, but this is how I feel about them.

I see.

So if Kerry said something that a racist organization supported--oh, I don't know, maybe staying in Iraq--he'd automatically be tainted, corrupted, and a racist.

Sorry. That thinking went out of style in the '50s ... no, I'm wrong, actually it's still in style in some circles ...

Never mind.

The first day of the "protest," I watched the CBS News story on it. The last segment showed a lone figure standing on a hill. One of the "protestors" looked through his binoculars, then said into his walkie talkie, "It's nothing. Nosy reporter."

That says it all. They don't want reporters there. The press is actually an annoyance to them. Maybe I need to go to more protests. I always thought that you WANT as many reporters as you can get.

The argument that what these jokers are doing is "good" is like saying the Nazis did "good" because they were pointing out the poor economic state of post-WWI Germany.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Not sure what SFTU means. But, the logical next step of the Minuteman outfit and the assorted right-wingnuts that follow them is taking the law into their own hands. Just check out their website and what supporters have to say.

Don't think for a moment that they will go no farther than lending "peaceful" assistance to the Border Patrol. I think the following from the MinuteMan Project website is the tip-off. Do we just sit by a wait for them to engage in violent activity or should we expose and oppose them and their dangerous mission?

Again, just check out their website. Just love this little item from their Frequently Asked Questions section.

"Do people carry firearms, or just observe without protection?

The Minuteman Project is neutral on this issue. We encourage everyone to obey the laws of the State of Arizona, including open carry laws regarding firearms."

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

and tell them no to hire them! they come here because they know they can get a job, punish the employers.

Read this article:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A26339-2005Apr4.html

http://www.asuwebdevil.com/issues/2005/04/05/news/692742

post these paragraphs so some of these DUers can read the evidence of racism:

Morgan, 60, a general contractor, stood on a hillside with two other men, monitoring the barbed-wire fence and sharing grievances about border crossers. They complained about provisions in some states to issue driver's licenses or in-state tuition rates to illegal immigrants. Darrel Wood, 44, a fiber-optics engineer, said eight of the 10 most-wanted criminals in his home state of Utah are illegal immigrants; Morgan blamed them for prison overcrowding and California's fiscal crisis.

"It's affecting my children at school," Wood said. "They're suffering, trying to get these immigrant kids up to speed."

Kathryn Ferguson, a Tucson documentary filmmaker who volunteered as a "legal observer" with the Arizona chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union, reported encounters with "a lot of verbally aggressive people" who called her a terrorist or communist.

She said that one of her colleagues -- a woman with a dark complexion -- approached a team to pet a dog and was told by its owner, "My dog's trained to keep people like you off my land."

Still crickets chirping away on that one...

feel that he'd have been all that thrilled with you repeating his name over and over at the foot of your xenophobic posts. He seemed to me like a guy who was, shall we say, not exclusionary. And I'll miss him.

Just an opinion.

Redstone

everybody has one.

Saying that supporting a person's right to do something that is 100% within the law even if you don't agree with them is xenophobia is sort of like saying that somebody who disagrees with Israel's Palestine policy is anti-semitic.

:eyes:

The Minutmen have, as of this point in time, not broken a single law. Their actions do, however, underscore an indisputable fact. The United States is either unwilling or incapable of enforcing existing immigration law and logic would dictate we should do one of two things. either we enforce the laws as they exist or we alter the laws to be more manageable an enforcable.

I'd suggest that if you disagree with current law, especially immigration law, you would do better to lobby your congressional representation than to rail against people who are acting 100% within the law.

Now was I, Walt?

Though I appreciate your input on what I should be posting. I'll take it into consideration the next time, I promise. :eyes:

a false original post, I believe any discussion is futile until the OP backs up his allegations.

Forgive me for trying to clear things up.

:eyes:

But you'll notice that the post I responded to was deleted. That should have told you something.

And personally, I don't believe any discussion about racism is futile. Sorry if you happen to disagree

These people are doing what our own INS/Border Patrol won't, which is attempting to report and take action on illegals crossing the border. I've seen nor read anything by them to indicate they are going down to the border with the express purpose of shooting someone. This is all hyperbole that detracts from the real issues of illegal immigration.

John BigBootay

"They're telling their people to obey the law.

This is not racism-- it's national security. The minutemen are not apprehending, detaining or harassing, but merely documenting the cases of border violations that they encounter.

Please cite sources for your (obviously false) claims of abuse or STFU (Shut The Fuck Up)."

Here's a source you might not like, Democracy Now and the Border Action Network. And I won't STFU!

----------------------------------------------------------------

Democracy Now
Tuesday, April 5th, 2005
Vigilantes or Civilian Border Patrol? A Debate on the Minuteman Project

Mike McGarry, media liaison for the Minuteman Project.
Jennifer Allen, executive director of the Border Action Network.

AMY GOODMAN: Joining us on the line from Arizona is the Minuteman Project's media liaison, Mike McGarry, and Jennifer Allen is with us, the Executive Director of the Border Action Network. Why don't we begin with Mike McGarry of the Minutemen. Tell us why so many people have gone to the border. What are you doing there?

MIKE McGARRY: Well, first of all, the reason should be obvious. I mean, if you believe Time magazine's report last October, we have something in the neighborhood of three million people from all over the world breaking into the country. And we have an out-of-control -- by any definition could be termed an invasion. So the Minuteman Project is – I mean, this show is called Democracy Now! -- this could not be a more democratically inspired project. It is people from all over the country, United States citizens, naturalized citizens and legal immigrants who have assembled here to peaceably assemble to petition the government for a redress of their grievances.

AMY GOODMAN: Jennifer Allen of Border Action Network, what's your response?

JENNIFER ALLEN: Well, what we've been seeing over the last two years is that Arizona has become the hotbed, sort of the staging ground for a larger anti-immigrant movement that is playing on the fact that immigration routes have been concentrated in Arizona. But what we don't need is civilians taking arms up and out patrolling the desert for immigrants themselves. No additional amount of men with guns is ever going to solve the problems of failing immigration and border policy. What we need to see is comprehensive immigration reform, not vigilantes.

AMY GOODMAN: Mike McGarry, your response?

MIKE McGARRY: Well, I have a lot to say about that. I’ll try keep it concise. Let’s get our terms straight. An immigrant is an invited guest into the American home. The illegal alien is someone who kicked in the back door and commits multiple misdemeanors and felonies to entrench himself here. Our opposition tries to characterize this movement -- it’s a grassroots movement -- as being anti-immigrant. That's just a pejorative. They know what they're doing. They play this game all the time, and we reject that.

AMY GOODMAN: Jennifer Allen?

JENNIFER ALLEN: The only folks that we're seeing committing criminal acts are the vigilantes that are out patrolling the border. We have four civil lawsuits right now that are pending other vigilante activities. The Minuteman Project is not the first time that we've had people out patrolling, looking for immigrants, detaining them at gunpoint. And what we have seen, too, is that what happens is the folks pull out their gun. Folks are getting shot at. Folks have been kicked. Folks have been dragged around. Folks have been yelled at. Folks have been bitten by dogs, thrown on the front of ATVs and dragged through the desert scrub. You want to talk about criminal activities, that's first and foremost.

AMY GOODMAN: Jennifer Allen, you say that this is a logical extension of the policy around immigration, yet the Bush administration has condemned the Minutemen.

AMY GOODMAN: Mike McGarry, your response to the Bush administration saying you're vigilantes? What do you think of President Bush?

MIKE McGARRY: Yeah, well that’s – yeah, this is all part of the attempt to castigate this. The Bush immigration policies are failures and just nonsense. He apparently would rather satisfy the whim of the President of Mexico who apparently encouraged him to use this pejorative. We reject that. I mean, we are being vigil, of course. But anything but vigilante is just nonsense. And what I just heard Jennifer say, talk about filing lawsuits, we expect all of this kind of stuff. This is the kind of stuff the open borders lobby, this kind of hyperbole that so characterizes everything they do. It is all a bunch of dopey nonsense.


AMY GOODMAN: Jennifer Allen, what do you think is the solution?

JENNIFER ALLEN: We also need to see on a more smaller and intermediate sense is that the local officials from the Cochise County Attorney, the county in southern Arizona where most of these vigilante activities are happening, to the Arizona Attorney General and the Arizona U.S. Attorney need to step up, do their job and prosecute these vigilante groups for their criminal activities, which is the everyday activities of rounding people up, detaining them illegally, impersonating law enforcement, organizing militias. These are all crimes at both the state and federal level. The fact that these officials have done nothing in spite of massive community mobilizations over the last two years has created this climate of impunity, where Mr. Gilchrist and other people from around the country think that they can just come into southern Arizona and do what they want.

MIKE McGARRY: Hold it. Hold it. Hold it. None of that is reality. You're making up a lot of stuff, lady. If we ever have a chance to debate this where we actually have some time, I would like to do that, because you've got to stop this.

JENNIFER ALLEN: I can tell you what we have seen. You know, the organization is a community organization based out of Douglas and Nogales, communities on the ground. So what we have seen for years. You know, what you all are doing is absolutely nothing new.

MIKE McGARRY: You're right. You know something?

JENNIFER ALLEN: And what we have seen time and time again is folks that are out rounding people up at gunpoint, threatening, intimidating and harassing the immigrants.



Please read the entire transcript at:

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/04/05/1334206

http://www.borderaction.org/

Border Vigilantes Armed With Assault Weapons Terrorize Local Douglas Families And Children

Victims file civil lawsuit against Barnett family & call for state prosecution

On October 30th, 2004, border vigilante Roger Barnett detained members of the Morales and English families in Douglas, Arizona, threatening them with a loaded AR-15 assault rifle and attack dogs, and barraging them with verbal abuse and racist insults. The children, ages 9-11, and their parents, who believed Barnett intended to murder them, suffered severe emotional trauma.

The Morales and English families, with the support of Border Action Network held a press conference on Monday, November 29th, 2004 announcing the civil lawsuit both families are bringing against Roger, Donald and Barbara Barnett.

“I didn’t serve six years in the United State Navy so that my family’s civil rights could be violated in our town of Douglas,” said Ron Morales, a United States Navy veteran, U.S. citizen, and long-time resident of Douglas. Mr. Morales was outraged that the armed vigilante attacked his family and that Barnett has been doing the same to immigrants crossing the Arizona desert for nearly ten years.

The families announced the lawsuit in order to bring attention to the community-wide effects of vigilante activities in southern Arizona and to demand an end to the tolerance offered to such dangerous groups by state and federal law enforcement agencies that have declined to investigate or prosecute Barnett and other vigilantes for previous incidents.

http://www.borderaction.org/news2.php?articleID=13

On Barnett's property?

I;m calling bullshit on this as I've seen it reported NOWHERE!

I can provide more if you'd like.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/04/05/1334206

http://www.borderaction.org/news2.php?articleID=13

Neither back up your claims. Sorry. Cite something from an Arizona paper. That should be sufficient.

BTW, the second source is citing an event from November of 2004, long before the Minuteman event occuring now.

Are you waiting for a news release from the Minuteman outfit to find out the "truth" about their operation? They lack credibility.

Those who organized the November action against immigrants are participating in this latest vigilante operation. No connection?
Come now. You're smarter than that!

The "sources" you gave in no way gives any indication the MinuteMen are doing anything illegal. I personnally have no problem with what the MinuteMen are doing.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against immigration, I'm just a firm believer that we should know who's coming into the country.

Bush won't do anything about illegal immigration. After all, if not for the illegal-immigrants, who would work as janitors at Wal-Mart for slave wages?

You made a claim and have as of yet not backed up the claim.

Nor have you posted anything that remotely backs up your claim.

So again I say, prove your allegations!

Dear Walt:

I find it interesting, and very revealing, that these border vigilante groups and their leaders have not said nor done anything to protest the "export" of jobs to cheap labor nations by big corporations.

These great "defenders" of our jobs and living standards just can't seem to find the words to protest corporate outsourcing, NAFTA, downsizing and wage cutting. They are dead silent on these very real attacks on the living standards of the American people.

And that's not just an accident or mere oversight on their part.

Rather than take on big business, these right-wing outfits prefer to scapegoat and blame undocumented workers for the growing economic crisis in this nation. They of course shed tears over the exploitation of poor undocumented workers by greedy corporations. However, they oppose efforts by labor unions to organize these workers to put an end that exploitation!

I don't think these border viglantes give a damn about the exploitation of undocumented workers or any workers, including citizens!

I have provided information on the "border patrols" harassment and intimidation of Latinos who they think "might be" without proper papers. A lawsuit has been filed against one of the main leaders of the vigilante leaders. But, you reject out of hand the lawsuit and statements exposing the "patrols" operations along the border. You suggest that the lawsuit has no merit and is nothing but a pack of lies. You know, it's one of those typical "left-wing" smear jobs against God fearing Patriotic Americans.

And you suggest that the statements of the Border Action Network and its executive director, Jennifer Allen, are not believable. It seems that only the statements of Minuteman Project officials are honest and truthful and we accept their press statements as valid and true.

Well, I hope you reconsider your position. If you don't I would like to know if you plan on joining them in their "patrols" and if not will you be sending them money to help finance their operations?

I sincerely hope not.

NOT ONE. Your allegations remain false as they have done nothing of the sort.

One source cites NOTHING EVEN REMOTELY RESEMBLING YOUR ALLEGATIONS!

The other source cites an incident from November 2004, clearly5 to 6 months prior to the Minutman actions currently underway.

So, present a source or youor allegations remain FALSE! Specifically, this is a falsehood:

"Minuteman Project participants are harassing, intimidating, frisking, interrogating and "capturing" people in the streets who "speak Spanish" and look like they might be "illegal" pedestrians. They are demanding citizenship papers!"

Furthermore, in post #8, you ADMIT YOU HAVE NO SOURCE.

Towhit:

"I wrote the lead post so I guess that makes me the source."

That's probably because you can't. So it's time for you to change the subject!

Walt: It seems that you're just playing a little word game now when you wrote: "You have presented NO source for your statement in the Original Post"

As I pointed out early on, the source of the statement was me, not a newspaper article, and I presented my opinion. Later I provided links to statements and articles that reinforced and supported that opinion. You have rejected those sources without refuting them!

Now please try to refute the information provided by credible progressive sources cited .... if you can.

allegations.

You provided two links that had absolutely nothing to do with your original allegation! You made the allegation and presented two links to essays that have not one thing to do with the allegations you made. Not a single thing.

There's your refutation!

Here's your original allegation:

"Minuteman Project participants are harassing, intimidating, frisking, interrogating and "capturing" people in the streets who "speak Spanish" and look like they might be "illegal" pedestrians. They are demanding citizenship papers!"

Now look at the alleged sources you linked to:

Democracy now is a debate about what they are doing. It does nothing to support the original allegation.

The borderaction link cites an event that occured on On October 30th, 2004, fully five months before the Minutmen began thier actions!

You supplied NO SOURCES for your original allegation!

But there is a reason why county officials in Cochise are concerned.

http://www.svherald.com/articles/2005/03/29/local_news/news1.txt

snips-

Newman was also concerned about racist fliers that recently appeared in the county. Prepared by the National Alliance, in Phoenix, the fliers warn of a "non-white invasion."

He was concerned about the possibility of hate crimes. Rothrock assured Newman that the Sheriff's Department was prepared to enforce all applicable laws.

end snip-

Perhaps no stories have developed to substantiate the claim of the OP but that does not make the intent invalid. Nor erase the fact that this has occurred in the past and with a stream of angry hunters on the border likely to happen when they head back to the tavern for a Pabst. There is a history of this sort of racism and as the OP's dated source shows a history of such violence by people who have linked themselves to or are involved in the formation of the minutemen (whether directly or not-they got their vigilante ideas from somewhere right? and it certainly isn't from their grasp of history). Calling this the minutemen project is a gross transgression for what should be considered properly American.

I however, trust that the local authorities will not tolerate any illegal action because the mere presence of vigilantes is a challenge to both the rule of law and those who enforce it. So they certainly are watching it closely.

Myself reserve the right to call these people what they are. As that is within the bounds of my legal responsibility and so pay no mind to the fact that what they are doing is within the bounds of the law. So, here's me standing in the public square pointing at some dispicable racists. :grr: Please ask them to head to the Canadian border and stop those old white folks from immigrating to Florida and, as they say, "overburden the system" by such things like growing old and such. Which last time I checked was a fact of life, just as it is for our Mexican friends to raise their children. If anything of the nature does happen, don't wait for it to pop on the tele. Look for it in the local police blotter in the depths of the local paper. The police will be doing their jobs while the media sleeps.

Finally, there is no guilt by association here since the entire project is premised on a racist frame that focuses solely upon the southern border. It certainly is not anywhere resembling labelling a critique of Israeli occupation as Anti-semetic. It more resembles angry white men screaming injustice when an African-American woman gets a job.

If they don't like the fact that known racists are frothing at the mouth at the prospects of this, then they should take a long look in the mirror and decide if what they are doing resembles anything like social justice.

It doesn't mean you go arresting them without cause and it doesn't mean spurious charges are flunbg about as if they were true, such as the allegations made by the original poster.

That sort of behavior only serves to make the situation worse.

I think I'm happy to hear the response of the local sherriff's office on this one. They seem concerned but patient in that link above. My worry however is that pictures I've seen of these people resemble ESPN hunting shows on the weekend. Some have guns others have other necessities for hunting like binoculars, camoflouge blinds, big trucks with gun racks, etc. It's not as if these people are organizing in the middle of town to demand something be done, like a Klan march through midtown. They jumped through a loophole and are out hunting human beings. This makes it a little bit different than protesting or marching. No one is reporting just what it is they are doing when someone is found. I can't help but wonder why.

and that's the point that cannot be forgotten.

Are you a member of the MMP?

A simple google produced several good stories to back up the claims of the OP. You could have done this quicker than writing one of your posts.

The fact that the Aryan Nation is recruiting people for the MMP is a little disturbing to me.

And if this guy is involved, it's also very troubling to me. He's "connected" to every Rabid Right Wing Talk Show Host in the Western states.



Links? I don't need no stinkin' links.

This is from the leader of the MMP. You don't find this "mindset" a little troubling?

CHD volunteers will now patrol the border with over 100 fully armed Citizens who consider themselves members of the unorganized state militia; we have the legal right and moral obligation as per our Arizona State Constitution and Federal Constitution and our respect for American citizens.

Our intent is to send a strong message to the world that we will stand defiant to invaders and protect the borders of our country.
A message to the world: Do not attempt to cross the border illegally; you will be considered an enemy of the state; if aggressors attempt to forcefully enter our country they will be repelled with force if necessary!

Chris Simcox
Civil Homeland Defense

http://www.americanpatrol.com/FEATURES/030320-ABP-REJECT-MILITIA-IDEA/SimcoxManifesto.html

Good one.

B-)

You Won't Hear Minutemen Criticism On This Show
April 5, 2005
Rush Limbaugh Show

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT

RUSH: Here's Ed in Carefree, Arizona. Great to have you on the program, sir.

CALLER: It is truly an honor, sir. I've been a listener for many years and I'll be very brief. I know your time is precious, sir. I would just like to thank you for supporting the Minutemen and not making fun of them, taking them seriously. The way you showed you're a true conservative, and you sit in a very lofty position yet you haven't made fun, and you've taken them seriously unlike a lot of the other hosts locally here in Phoenix and around the country. I just want to thank you, and want just taking it seriously, sir.

RUSH: Well, you're more than welcome. I don't find anything wrong with it whatsoever. Immigration is a huge problem, the border is porous, and I think these guys have gotten some action. Call it what you want, this is the way people in this country, if the elected officials don't listen to them, this is the way they make it known what they feel, what they're thinking, and what they support and oppose. What's the difference in this and writing a bunch of letters to your congressman? So, you know, these are people that care deeply about the whole problem, and they're acting on it. They are I think great targets for people lampooning them and making fun of them, as in the Michigan militia or some of these other "vigilante" groups.

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_040505/content/across_the_fruited_plain.guest.html

....when found abusing civil liberties of our citizens, should be immediately confronted by an armed Left-Wing Militia....

Here's the link for the Minuteman Project:

http://www.minutemanproject.com/index.html

Here's the link for Border Action Network which is opposing the border vigilantes operations:

http://www.borderaction.org/index.php

But it is certainly news to me but then I'm 30 miles from the border and news travels so slow.
I'm glad to see the Minute Men drawing national attention to a serious problem.

http://www.tombstonetumbleweed.com/This_Week/MinutemanProjectAlreadySucc.htm

which I guess is "published once a week"

Hope to keep undesirables from entering

http://www.ironictimes.com/index.html

Border Militia Divides Arizona Residents
By Tim Gaynor
April 6, 2005
BISBEE, Arizona (Reuters)

A right-wing militia patrolling the Mexican border to catch illegal immigrants is pitting some residents in favor of old-style frontier justice against critics who say the militiamen are the real threat.

They say it is a peaceful political protest, although some are armed with pistols, and a number of local residents have joined the patrols or turned out to support them.

Others, however, have held protests and watch with suspicion the volunteers' arrival in camper vans and four-wheel drive vehicles, some decked out with gun racks.

Lewis and some other residents in this town in the Mule Mountains just north of the border say they fear the Minuteman volunteers much more than the migrants who trek across ranches and public land on the way north.

"I'd rather take my chances with the Mexicans than one of these U.S. military type idiots taking part in the patrols," local truck driver John Porter told Reuters, as he took the sun on a sidewalk table outside the Daily Diner. "Migrants pay their taxes and I don't have a problem with them," he added.

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=domesticNews&storyID=8104346&pageNumber=0

Evidence, please.

A lawsuit has been filed against these "border patrol" activists for actions they conducted last fall. These same right-wing racist vigilantes are participating in the latest border patrols. Minuteman Project has not excluded them nor criticized their violent actions conducted just a few months ago. Why do you think that is?

Please read the article on the lawsuit and the Democracy Now! radio interview with Jennifer Allen, executive director of the Border Action Network.

The links to both have been posted and I hope you read them.

I also urge you to visit the Minuteman Project website so you can see for yourself just how racist and right-wing these scumbags are.

Stormfront, a self-proclaimed neo-Nazi "White Nationalist Organization" just loves the Minuteman Project operation. This is from their discussion forum:


WhiteRights
Forum Member

Re: Minuteman Project Grabs 18 Illegals on First Day

Here are some more updates from the Minuteman website leading up to the first day.


AryanAngel
Location: Arizona

Re: Minuteman Project Grabs 18 Illegals on First Day

I think they are doing a great job so far......I was worried at first!

WhiteRights
Re: Minuteman Project Grabs 18 Illegals on First Day

The L.A. Times found the most unflattering picture of some dedraggled volunteers and put that on their front page in their insidious Yiddish attempt to undercut the Minutemen.

Here's the latest update from the Minuteman website. The Jews and their political puppets are doing everything they can to put down this effort.

http://www.minutemanproject.com/

The MinuteMan Project is actively monitoring our border!
Stay tuned to this website for current information, photos, and media information. Due to the success of our project, we are swamped with media calls - one every few minutes. It is important that we respond to these queries - we are making every attempt to respond to all media requests. We are also updating the website with limited internet access. Therefore, updates will be somewhat terse. We apologize for this, but we are doing the best we can

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=196179

--------------------------------------------------------------------

"AryanAngel" lives in Arizona. Bet she's participating in one of the "border patrols" to stop the invasion of those "Mexicans".

A lovely pure bred white woman I'm sure. And she speaks perfect "American"! She might be little short on brain power and can't count to five but what do you want .... perfection? Anyone here want to join her?

Lawsuits get thrown out everyday for lack of evidence. Think you might be jumping the gun a little?

(Minuteman Project participants are harassing, intimidating, frisking, interrogating and "capturing" people in the streets who "speak Spanish" and look like they might be "illegal" pedestrians. They are demanding citizenship papers! )

If no evidence is offered, then this thread needs to be locked.
Theres enough ridiculous claims going around as is.

Jennifer Allen, executive director of the Border Action Network said on Democracy Now this past Tuesday:

"The only folks that we're seeing committing criminal acts are the vigilantes that are out patrolling the border. We have four civil lawsuits right now that are pending other vigilante activities. The Minuteman Project is not the first time that we've had people out patrolling, looking for immigrants, detaining them at gunpoint. And what we have seen, too, is that what happens is the folks pull out their gun. Folks are getting shot at. Folks have been kicked. Folks have been dragged around. Folks have been yelled at. Folks have been bitten by dogs, thrown on the front of ATVs and dragged through the desert scrub. You want to talk about criminal activities, that's first and foremost."

Jennifer Allen continued .....

"We also need to see on a more smaller and intermediate sense is that the local officials from the Cochise County Attorney, the county in southern Arizona where most of these vigilante activities are happening, to the Arizona Attorney General and the Arizona U.S. Attorney need to step up, do their job and prosecute these vigilante groups for their criminal activities, which is the everyday activities of rounding people up, detaining them illegally, impersonating law enforcement, organizing militias. These are all crimes at both the state and federal level. The fact that these officials have done nothing in spite of massive community mobilizations over the last two years has created this climate of impunity, where Mr. Gilchrist and other people from around the country think that they can just come into southern Arizona and do what they want."

And she explained ....

"I can tell you what we have seen. You know, the organization is a community organization based out of Douglas and Nogales, communities on the ground. So what we have seen for years. You know, what you all are doing is absolutely nothing new.

And what we have seen time and time again is folks that are out rounding people up at gunpoint, threatening, intimidating and harassing the immigrants."

I don't question her credibility. Do you? If you can prove that her claims are "ridiculous" and not true, your recommendation that this thread be locked should be considered. Can you do that?

So far there have been no crimes committed by the MM.
There have been no reports of the MM brandishing fire arms.

4 law suits, "wow thats a lot huh"
Law suits get thrown out of court every day due to lack of evidence. I believe I'll wait for the outcome of the suits.

(I don't question her credibility. Do you?)
Having seen only one side of the story presented by her and her organization, plus the fact that the one case talked about in the links was an individual not a member of the MM back in October, leads me to question her credibility.

(And what we have seen time and time again is folks that are out rounding people up at gunpoint, threatening, intimidating and harassing the immigrants.") And all the proper reports were filed with local LE to back up that claim?
Theres a difference between harassing illegals, and confronting someone who's trespassing on your property.

Do property owners have a right to defend their property against trespassing?

These moron minutemen are just wannabes that feel a need to spread testosterone around.
They are the best example of police state USA.