If Minutemen kill someone, will entire group be charged w/ felony murder?

In AZ when three robbers rob a store and 1 shoots the store clerk, all three are charged with felony murder. But in that the minutemen are doing what has been considered legal, does anyone know if felony murder charge is applicable here???

As long as they're observing, with the consent of landowners, they're not committing the necessary underlying crime. Perhaps a charge of conspiracy would be possible, but accomplice liability generally would apply to anyone involved with a shooting.

Some is federal, some is reservation. My understanding is that they're not patrolling the entire border, i.e., they're not trespassing.

They'd be allowed, my guess is, on public lands and they've gotten consent for private lands they're on. They may trespass, but I doubt it's pre-planned.

Permission of the landowner is key...and if the resulting penalty if permission is not given.

and even if they are on a landowners land without their consent, that would only constitute a trespass and, as you said, would not meet the necessary underlying felony requirement

what a bunch of dumbass yahoos.

They'll be like an iffy date - on their best behavior for the first date, but sooner or later their true colors will show. Oh wait, they're already showing the confederate colors . . .

In other news - I just found this; apparently we ARE watching the watchers.

http://www.cpt.org/

no underlying crime.

pointing out that millionaires would pay millions to hunt "people" and that "it is fun to shoot some people."

Minuteman recruiters??? WTF are you talking about???

then you would have a first degree murder, a conspiracy to commit murder - possibly with RICO implications - and a killing for hire conspiracy. however, what you wouldn't have after all this are the elements for a felony murder charge . . .

You know how crafty those wicked Mexicans are.

More likely, though, would be a wrongful death lawsuit against the leaders and/or landowner.

This assumes the shooting was not a case of self defense, but even so, in a self defense case wrongful death suits have been brought and won, so don't count out anything.

This would explain why the group is so adament that they follow the rules of "observe and report" because nobody wants the liability.

And some people's philosophy of "rules are made to be broken" could be at play.

They invited these people onto their land, so civil liability is almost absolute in such a case and criminal liability could also be possible.

Since I'm so new here I'm not allowed to send a private message but I would like to say that I have really enjoyed your posts in the various threads regarding the Minutemen.

Thank you, and I will continue reading.

Peace,

Fergus

1. No underlying felony - the Minutemen aren't breaking the law.

2. If your friend hauls off and shoots someone in front of you, the burden of proof is going to be very high to prove you had anything to do with it unless you were actively involved in the shooting.

IOW, prosecutors are almost never going to be able to prove "Yeah, I knew he was going to shoot the dude, so I stood there and watched."

They might try and make a case against the MM, but in my opinion it would be a wast of time.

They are there simply to help the landowners enforce their right to private property. If the trespasser happens to be illegal, well to bad for them.

But it's more likely that just the shooter would be charged and a liability suit brough against the landowner.

but why should it be? If what they are doing is legal, why should they be responsible for what someone miles away might be doing. That'd be like arresting all of DU if one of us made a credible threat against President Bush.

Sounds to me like you'd like that, though. Hope I'm wrong?

arrest duers? arrest militia? arrest me? white coats for you...or maybe just a writing class!

an INS or Border Patrol Agent. Then we'll see whose side the government is on.

they're crying for the law to be enforced. Why would they then break the law?

but when you're trigger happen, then you have a tendency to shot anything that moves and ask questions later.

Imagine if these were liberals doing this? This right wing slant is getting worse everyday. Here in Chicago, they are eulogizing (WLS890 Eileen Byrne,Terri O'Brien) these damn nut cases that are paranoid to everything around them, and have to act in bands, against a few Mexicans that are looking to improve their lives.
What is it with these people? How are they protecting American and being able to get in the way of law enforcement? I wonder what would happen if Al Franken and Michael Moore did something similar.
Another thing. How many Arabs/Muslims have crossed the border with Mexico?
These guys (Minutemen) are insurgents within our own country.

Insurgents? Insurgents generally don't sit around in lawn chairs "insurgencizing".

DoNotRefill, you never ever seem to see the potential or the dangers posed by guns in society. You will rant and rave about the second amendment and YOUR rights but fail to hear the voice of most Americans that want to see something done about them.
Phoenix has a law now that allows people to drink while carrying a concealed weapon. Florida is allowing people to react instead to possible threats with violence if they fear their property is in danger.
Terrorists are able to buy guns without impunity in this country and idiots are going around buying .50 caliber rifles capable of shooting down commercial aircraft.
What does all have to do with the Minutemen. Well, for one, a local in the area who is part of the action has stated that he has seen those that are the most vocal walking around like John Wayne with guns on hip as though they in some type of Western. He says that they have no business in this exercises for many reasons. Businessmen and wannabes is what he called them. I for one detest the direction we are going in.

I also see the benefits that they provide, and in my opinion, the benefits FAR outweigh the risks. On top of that, your risk/benefit analysis thing misses the entire point....it's a CIVIL RIGHT enumerated and protected in the Bill of Rights. As such, and ONLY as such, it NEEDS to be protected. To paraphrase Cottrol: "The Second Amendment is far too important to leave to the gun nuts."

It's a felony for terrorists to buy guns in this country, just as it's illegal for terrorists to commit acts of terrorism. That doesn't stop them from doing so. Prohibition, by definition, only affects the law abiding. Booze, guns, alcohol, it doesn't matter what the substance or device is, saying "ohhh, this is illegal!" does absolutely dick to deal with the REAL problems, and is comparable to putting a band-aid on a sucking chest wound. It may make you feel better, but it doesn't help solve the problem even in the short term.

you don't know many people who own guns, do you...

and I grew up in a very rough area and I have seen vigilantism first hand. Believe me, it can get ugly quick. There are plenty of yahoos out in the desert, knowing that no one will stop them, that are going to go kick some Mexican ass. It won't be long before some of them go out of control or a 'mistake' happens.

in order for the felony murder rule to be applicable, the killing must take place during the commission, or escape from, a felony. and the underlying felony must also be of a certain kind. it varies slightly from jurisdiction, but typically they are: robbery, burglary, arson, rape, kidnapping, etc. in addition, the underlying felony can not be the murder itself - otherwise any killing would be eligible for the felony murder rule.

what the minutemen are doing, as reprehensible as it is, is not a felony and if one of them shoots and kills someone the others would not be eligible for conviction under the felony murder rule . . .

that said, there is a chance the other members could be implicated in a death through an on-going conspiracy or perhaps under a joint-venturer theory.

All the illegals here raping and murdering, filling our prisons, draining our hospitals of funds?

Oh...I forgot....you only hate AMERICANS!

all of America's rapists and murderers are busy bumping little boys in Baghdad. Bring the CACI contractors home now!!!

But don't fret, Michael Jackson will be in jail soon and there'll be plenty of young 'uns for you to bone...

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Go to a military recruiter TODAY and sign up. Dumbya needs his oil!

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Too chicken?

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Bubba, yer just yeller!

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