MSNBC: Is Jeff Gannon missing Iowa boy Johnny Gosch? - (VIDEO)

April 8, 2005 @ 4PM ET

Video - MSNBC: Is Jeff Gannon missing Iowa boy Johnny Gosch?

Video in Real Media format (11 minutes)

(Mods, please lock this thread if it is not appropriate. Thanks!)

Hope that it doesn't get locked. I would like to come up to speed on it.

what is the significance here?

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

I don't know how much of that I believe, but it was a fun read. Sounds like a movie.

I think Gannon may be this missing boy, but lots of the rest of the article was pure hearsay and nutty. but intruiging and interesting to read nonetheless.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Thank you for the heads-up.

It's really too bad about Tim Schmitt. The guy's a real journalist, unlike the presstitutes of Corporate McPravda who take money for treason. OTOH. Schmitt will be remembered as a Patriot.

Here are some folks who are trying to get our country back from the BFEE:

2003: First public airing of "Conspiracy of Silence"

Pedophile politicians make pedophile priests seem holy.

http://www.vote.org/silence/

Now things get complicated. Perhaps JGJGJG is trying to protect himself from danger by outing himself?

Is He Johnny Gosch?

By Erin Crawford
The Des Moines Register

EXCERPT...

Jim Rothstein, a retired New York City police officer and longtime investigator on the Gosch case, said becoming a White House reporter is completely in character for a former victim of the pedophilia ring.

In fact, Gannon/Guckert may have orchestrated the scenario for a greater purpose.

"Is it possible he drew attention to himself during that Jan. 26 press conference to pique the curiosity of citizen investigators?" posited one blogger.

At Tyranny Response Unit news (trunews.blogspot.com), the sex scandal is cast as an act of revenge.
"It appears that Gannon is the good guy - he might be getting back at his abusers," observed the Tyranny Response Unit blogger.

CONTINUED...

http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050405/LIFE04/504050376/1039/LIFE

Either way: Down with the BFEE!

They want to equate this assholish Wayne Madsen crap with the accurate, responsible work that (pardon the expression) exposed Guckert. A good way for the corporate media to obscure their own embarassment and shameless, conscienceless whoring.

I could believe there may be a link between Gannon/Guckert's prostitution and the Republican circle that was involved in the call boy scandal. But the Gannon/Guckert/Gosch connection is bogus and only being used to discredit bloggers and the left. imo.

Looking pudgy there, Bulldog!

if you watch the vid you will see the gannon we know and love.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Who is Johnny Gosch?

on Demopedia: http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/index.php/Gannongate_Wrinkles

Search last month for Gosch, threads 1 through 14 I think. Buh-zillions of posts.

Andy Stephenson gumshoed quite a of the info.

David Gest shaved his head!

I would really appreciate it. :hi: :loveya: :hug: :pals: :woohoo:

A Quicktime version would be much appreciated.

OMG! I had no clue this story would make the MSM.

Andy, you looked great!

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Sure would be a shame if that went on to every milk carton across the United States.

:)

I am still loving your artist talent.






I.N.N. covers gannon to look on their web site for shows
http://www.innworldreport.net/index.htm

http://www.seo-blog.org/5755_omfg_rageagainstthegop_mac...

that host was awful.

KOS's research shot this loonie idea down. We know what frat Guckert was in when the missing Gosch bot was about 10 years old.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/3/28/82111/6781

The web designer who designed his first escort page siad Gannon looked 40 at a time he was claiming to be early 30s

Jeff Gannon is a fictional person. Jeff Gannon is the creation of someone. If I am not mistaken, the "evidence" gathered by many reflect that "Jeff Gannon' is approximately 4 years old, that is when "Jeff Gannon" first appeared in society. If Gannon is Guckert, then yes, he would be 47. If Gannon is Gosch he would be younger.

The problem is everyone assumed once the high school photo appeared and the known Guckert shared facial similarities with Gannon, then the case was closed on trying to determine if he was Guckert or who "Gannon" really is.

There are people that dispute the identification from the photos we have, they were disputed in wrinkles, but a mass chorus of "it is Guckert" rose and then "sabotage" was had on the threads and they were locked. There are facial similarites, yet their are differences and the differences are not as a result of age. They inherent.

Jeff Gannon' is approximately 4 years old, that is when "Jeff Gannon" first appeared in society.

And that merh is the truth !
great post.

what is important is finding all the children even the grown ones.
Truth is our friend.

gannon/guckert/gosch reporting watch I.N.N.World Report on FreeSpeechTV or on the web site. They cover PNAC and all !
http://www.innworldreport.net/index.htm


http://www.seo-blog.org/5755_omfg_rageagainstthegop_mac ...

who Jeff Gannon really is remains a mystery, his story about being in the military as "Guckert" is not true. And when all this attention has been focused on him, have you noticed there has never been any interviews with family members. Even in the Jackson case, they interviewed his father and his siblings. I have not seen one article about someone coming forth and saying I went to school with this guy, etc.

she hadn't seen him in 20 years! I can't find a picture of him in the frat either.

can we find a photo a YOU in college? And why would he contact the mother of a kid he never met??

jezzus folks, get a grip!

any of his family come forward to identify him? He has NO cousins, aunts uncles siblings? All we have is a fraternity that says somewhere that he was a member? Has anyone contacted the other brothers in this frat?


Send me a link directly to the photo of him at the fraternity then. And where is his college records? For God's sake I have been out of college for a million years and I can still send $5.00 to get a copy of my records.

in this thread. Why should he bother to spend the effort to disuade the tinfoil hat crowd?? They'd just claim any new evidence was faked as well. Reasonable people already know this is BS.


BTW, the fact that he hasn't paraded his parents before the press is hardly "hiding them" :eyes:


bye bye

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Maraya1969... something's funny about your title combined with the body of your post.

:yourock:

:hug:

:yourock: It's amazing to see this get airtime! YEAH!

There is so much stuff that is legitimate and DUers want to peddle THIS?

Welcome to permanent minority status.

Johnny Gosch was kidnapped, that WAS a conspiracy. Call it stupid if you will. However, there are lots of kids/people today that appreciate some light being shed upon the horrors that are taking place against our children - (Jeff Gannon/James Guckert/Johnny Gosch) aside.

and not a typical kidnaping/murder done by a single sicko?

And, he told her all about it, that's how.

that not everybody believes her account, including Johnny's father?

But, I don't personally see why the woman would lie about such a thing.

woman who has endured so much pain, but she strikes me as insane. Her stories are classically paranoid and delusional.

My mother is a paranoid schizophrenic/bi-polar combo. Generally when people are delusional to the extent you claim, they're unable to function. This woman appears totally sane.

The fact is that there are sex slaves in this country and elsewhere. As much as we'd like to ignore this fact, it is a fact. Someone, somewhere is a victim of this industry whether we'd like to pretend it doesn't exist or not.

here or anywhere else. That's ridiculous.

And you are wrong that paranoid people are universally unable to function. I'm sorry about your mom, but there are certainly many levels of mental illness, and many degrees of functionality.

such and such, she would be beyond the "functional" stage.

I know a woman who holds a job and has raised her family and is still very involved with caring for her grandson.

She hears voices. They tell her very interesting things. She discusses what they tell her, if asked. You would not know she's schizophrenic, but if you probe a little, you find she lives in an alternate reality. She is not in any way unable to function.

licence, and is able to care for grandchildren as well, but she does not hold onto the same delusions for years and travel around the world promoting said delusions.

One can "function" to a certain extent, but not in the manner you suggest. I imagine the husband would have aired any such dirty laundry anyhow.

if you choose to believe that all mentally ill people respond and react the same way, you're free to do so. I don't think it's very rational.

In the end, the simple fact that Jeff Gannon is 12 years older than Johnny Gosch is enough for me to call this whole sordid episode a case of mass delusion on behalf of some portion of DU.

But I've known enough mentally ill people to know that one can't "imagine" such a thing as Ms. Gosch and retain that for years while being functional.

that any delusion, maintained long enough, is the truth?

Then Stephen King really DID kill John Lennon. A local crazy has been saying that for over 20 years.

imagine such outlandish things, don't maintain the same delusions for years on end and function entirely normally. Were Ms. Gosch as delusional as you say, it would be MOST apparent to her loved ones, X husband included. Additionally I believe that if Ms. Gosch "imagined" her son sat at her kitchen table with her for hours spilling the beans, she'd have plenty of other delusions in her repertoire.

other delusions she may or may not have. I've only read and seen her speak on this particular issue.

Nor do I have any real idea how truly functional she is. Again, I've only read or seen things about her regarding this particular case.

But her account of meeting with her son just doesn't pass the smell test. He shows up out of the blue years after being kidnaped, but doesn't tell anybody, doesn't try to find out more about where he is (say, by noting what make/model car he was driving) or anything else.

A few years later, she mentions that he showed up and had a nice conversation with her, then disappeared again. That does not strike me as likely. In fact, it strikes me as SO unlikely that one must consider other reasons for her holding this belief.

but it happens all to often.

Ms. Gosch said she plead with her son to come forward, but he feared for his life, and the life of his family .. so he went back into hiding.

It doesn't sound all that absurd to me. Additionally, with the contention between she and her X he surely would mention if she had a history of mental illness? She would have some record of such a history "somewhere."

but why would anyone have access to her medical and/or legal records?She's a private citizen.

Nor do I think it's unlikely that an ex-husband wouldn't mention it publicly - he could just be a kind man.

I just don't buy the story that her long-missing son shows up one night with a fantastic story, and she tells nobody. She doesn't call the police, she doesn't try to keep him, she just lets him go and then waits a few years before telling anyone.

Would ANY mother in such a case just let her son disappear again?

children were at risk. That's what he told her.

Read this exerpt from Noreen Gosch's book, she sounds rightly troubled, but certainly not insane:

http://www.johnnygosch.com/listing/chap.pdf

That your facts are not straight.

Jeff Gannon is not 12 years older than Johnny Gosch.

"Jeff Gannon" does not exist, "he" is a fiction.

And there is no "mass delusion" on behalf of some portion of DU.

Some portion of DU subscribers raised some questions and considered some possibilities. That is the opposite of "delusion" and in no way sordid.

You also have your facts wrong on Noreen Gosch, whom you have insulted on this thread, and on Johnny's father, about whom you appear to know nothing.

If you're going to present a credible challenge, it might be a good idea to start with facts. That would raise the level of this discussion, should you be interested in doing so.

James Guckert, who is widely known as Jeff Gannon, is 12 years older than Gosch. Is that better?

You are picking nits.

And how do you know it is a FACT that Noreen Gosch is not deluded about the so-called visit her son made years ago?

As to Johnny's father, I read in the articles about this case that he does not believe Johnny visited his mother. Do you have a link to refute that?

If you're so interested in raising the level of discussion, please provide your OWN evidence for your assertions, or refute mine with evidence, but picking nits like this isn't working.

Who is Jeff Guckert? Until you can determine that, you don't know how old he is. The dkos timeline is full of assumptions so you might not want to rely on that.

Noreen Gosch testified under oath when directly asked about that visit. In fact, that was the occasion of her coming forward, something she says she had been asked not to do by her son. You might go read the transcripts.

Since we have no sworn statements from the father, why do you credit his statements? And what do you know about him and his involvement during the investigation of Johnny's disappearance?

And, in fact, I am not nit picking at all but pointing out unfounded and very broad assumptions that you're tossing around to discredit people. Works for me.

Much of the information you're looking for has already been discussed at length and can be found at Demopedia. Happy hunting.

presume I have not read the material, and if I would only do so, I would be convinced of the rightness of your position.

I assure you it is not true.

Do you have anything that refutes my assertion that the father does not believe the mother's account?

Noreen's account. I have read allegations that say he did, but I have yet to see a transcript of an interview or his testimony in court that prove your assertions.

Further, has Johnnie, Sr., made any statements recently? Has he denied that Gannon is his son or that their are no similiarites or possibility that Gannon could be his son.

Where are statements from Gannon's mother, brother and sister-in-law that say he is really Guckert?

Just wondering? :shrug:

I know diagnosed schizophrenics who function just fine in their own way and others who don't function well at all. This illness is various.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

I agree. My heart goes out to her, but her son was probably killed shortly after he disappeared, may he rest in peace.

it wouldn't be the first parent in denial *cough* Shiavos *cough*

nt

Let's tell the Shiavos that Gannon is REALLY Terri, that's she's been hidden by the CIA all these years. That'll kill two birds with one stone!

And you will see that you are doing the woman a grave disservice.

She explicitly says that she does not know if Guckert is her son!

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

doesn't write down the make, model and license plate of the car he arrived in? I'm not a cop but if I was I would say this doesn't pass the smell test. Maybe Norreen should show she can pass a lie detector test. The web designer who created his escort site in 1999 said Gannon looked 40. He was only off by 2 years. Gannon is not in his 30s.

The Absolutely Essential J.D. Guckert Timeline

June 1975: Graduates from Conneaut Lake High School.

1975-June 1980: Attends West Chester College (now West Chester University) and joins TKE fraternity. He is given #248 on the chapter member scroll.

August 1, 1980: Is awarded Instruction I teaching certficate in social studies by PA (PA Department of Education).

1980-mid-1980's: Works for landscape architect Herb Plankinton, meets Randy McFarland, future owner of Karmak.

1984: Lists "N.K.S. Distributors" as his employer in the TKE alumni directory.

1986-1987: Plays for a bar's team in the City of Brotherly Love Softball League (Philadelphia Gay News)

1991-1994: Earns income, fails to pay Delaware state income taxes.

October 18, 1996: Tax judgment filed for failure to pay Delaware state income tax over a multi-year period.

April 10, 1997:Bedrock Corp. incorporates in Delaware.

June 26, 1997: Car accident occurs that will result in lawsuit two years later, with Guckert and Diamond State Distributors listed as defendants. (Case No. 99C-06-215).

Late 1997: Viva Vino Imports hires Guckert as office manager.

March 1999: Gives notice at Viva Vino, continues working with old accounts there for a year or so.

April 1999: Starts working for Karmak as office manager.

August 31, 1999: First invoice for porn site. Name used is "Jeff." (Warning: link not work safe.)

September 27, 1999: GOPUSA.com registered (whois)

November 10, 1999: Guckert listed as "new" on a Philadelpha escort service, using the pseudonym "Lou".

February 23, 2000: Guckert's underwear photo uploaded to personal page at AOL.

March 30, 2000: Last of invoices for porn site design. (Warning: link not work-safe.)

May 11, 2000: Guckert's militaryescortsm4m.com domain registered (whois).

August 9, 2001: BEDROCKcorp@aol.com PayPal account created. Two verified buyers since then. (PayPal).

August 25, 2001: Date on customer review with nude photo. (Warning: Link not work-safe.)

October 31, 2001: usmcpt.com first recorded as live. One photo is named "jeff.jpg" (Warning: link not work safe.)

December 2001: Guckert gives notice at Karmak, says he's moving to Washington, D.C., to pursue political interests.

January 2002: Quitting Karmak, Mr. Guckert goes to Washington.

January 25, 2002: theconservativeguy.com domain registered (whois).

March 11, 2002: Paypal account for conservativeguy.com created (Paypal).

May 11, 2002: studfiles.com profile last modified.

May 11, 2002: workingboys.net profile last modified. (WARNING: link not work-safe.)

June 17, 2002: jeffgannon.com domain registered (whois).

July 16, 2002: Posts page about attending Pledge of Allegiance rally.

July 19, 2002: jdg17@aol.com paypal account registered (paypal).

November 12, 2002: Customer testimonial posted describing $200/hour rate and penis size.

November 12, 2002: Opinion piece by "Jeff Gannon" published in the Conservative Monitor.

November 20, 2002: "Jeff Gannon" article posted to opinioneditorials.com.

December 18, 2002: Article published under moniker "The Conservative Guy."

December 18, 2002: First posts to Boot To the Skull as "Jeff Gannon" but uses "theconservativeguy" as a file name. Note that this link will give you a page from the wrong date half the time.)

December 23, 2002: Guckert makes first webcast.

January 13, 2003: Guckert attends State Dept. briefing.

Jan 15, 2003: Byline "Jeff Gannon" first appears on gopusa.com web site (site since scrubbed).

February 2003: Guckert on CSPAN in White House.

February 2003-January 2005: Lots of documented over-the-top biased questions; hundreds of crappy "Talon News" articles posted.

January 26, 2005: The Question. The beginning of the end.

she doesn't tell anyone about it for a couple years.

There is so much that is legitimate related to this case. With a proper investigation, it could lead to the exposure of various nefarious programs and crime networks connected to those currently in power. If you weren't so afraid of the conspiracy "perception", you might actually begin to understand whom you're fighting.

"Only the small secrets need to be protected. The big ones are kept secret by public incredulity." Marshall McLuhan

Yes, we better stop talking, because some may view our ideas as "conspiracy crap".

Such "conspiracy crap" ideas like stolen elections. Foolish "conspiracy crap" ideas like deliberately placing voting machines to disadvantage democratic neighborhoods.

"Conspiracy crap" theories such as thinking that the bush admin manufactured fake WMD stories to justify the invasion of Iraq. "Conspiracy crap" such as thinking the connection of Bin Laden to Iraq was bullshit.

We better just shut up about "conspiracy crap" like the idea that the Shiavo talking-points were generated by the GOP.

Let's just not investigate, discuss, analyze or research anything anymore. Because it could be nothing but "conspiracy crap". At least that certainly is what we are told by certain quarters.

Gannon was trained by the CIA to be a male escort spy?

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. By all means, pursue this, but I need a LOT more before I buy any of this stuff.

"Gannon was trained by the CIA to be a male escort spy"

Precicesly where in the video did Andy or Noreen make this assertion?

They didn't follow up on it, thank God.

I would think that it would be fairly easy to find out whether Guckert had a childhood on record. Friends. School yearbook.

The intro stated that "some say".

Perhaps they will give you the source of the assertion. It was not made on the program by Andy or Noreen.

and when the story depends on the ravings of a mentally disturbed mother and requires you to believe that somehow all the records showing that Gannon was in college when the missing kid was 10 we faked by a huge CIA conspiracy, then yes, give it up. At that point you've entered the realm of drug-dealing Englush queens, vast alien bases manned by intelligent lizard, man-made earthquakes causing tidal waves, and the other crap that relegates people like the Larouches to the fringe.

but you nailed it doll...gee like i just posted on another thread..think about it..if Columbus didn't take risks..with his conspiracy theorys..we would all still be in spain...because the world was flat remember?

and if the wright brothers didn't think flying was possible and take a chance with a theory..we would not be flying in jets and landing on the moon..and speaking of the moon...ohh i am sure you get my point!


fly....a lady who has spent 33yrs of her life in the air..or was that a conspiracy theory..i will never tell!

You are proving my point. Let's not talk about this loony crap so we can focus on real matters that are in the record: like lying about WMD to start an unnecessary war, etc.

This Gosch stuff will discredit our legitimate complaints.

:kick:

It's like reading one of the wingnut militia conspiracies about Clinton. It's WAAAAAY out there. Did I hear this correctly: he was brainwashed by the CIA?

I can't believe MSNBC ran this story.

Just a guess.

By going way out there with this nutty Gannon story, also maybe it takes the pressure off the real story that he's a fake, planted newsman.

But look how people here cooperate!

But I agree, let's call Noreen Gosch AND Jeff Gannon and tell them how wrong they are for not dismissing this looney leftwing garbage out of hand?

What?

Neither of them have done that? Even when directly questioned?

Oops.

Seriously, how gutless do we have to be, to be afraid to shine some light on children being abuducted into pedophilia rings? This isn't a partisan issue. And it's much bigger than DU, a party, or even Johnny Gosch, doncha think?

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

For the sake of the progressive cause -- DON'T RUN WITH THIS STORY!

various aspects of this story, is the only thing that can save a "progressive" or any other kind of democratic movement in this country. Know your enemy, know his weapons, or be defeated.

The same words were posted many, many times regarding election fraud.

I have been on many different types of boards, and the one type of post that always disturbs me, no matter the subject, is the post that wants a certain subject to NOT be discussed.

There will always be people who hold differing views on subjects.

the true believers have found "the truth" and no evidence will disuade them.

AMEN!!!

She is just repeating what she was told by her son. That is the one part of the story that is probably true.

Mrs. Gosch's account. Johnny Gosch's father is one of them.

to hide from the truth. Just ask Noreen. Can you give me a reason why Gannon will not simply discredit this mythical information by providing a DNA sample?

if I claim that you are Goerring's love child with Mata Hari, will you run down to the nearest testing center to provide DNA to disprove my theory?

I think you would not. Why? Because it's not your responsibility to disprove every whackjob theory that shows up on the internet.

Others are not obligated to provide evidence that YOU might find useful.

Also, I have no reason to believe Gannon or others WANT this story discredited yet. Gannon seems to love the attention, and the powers that be probably enjoy watching such lunacy from the left.

I have figured out that in life it is often simpler to just go with the truth and if a DNA sample is what is required of me to prove or disprove something I have no problem doing that.

TRUTH is ALWAYS the best route. I have no problem defending it and no problem giving it. Anyone that knows me can attest to the fact I am an open book. If someone asks an opinion, I give mine freely, but I always tell them it's just an opinion.

Circumstances in my life have made me realize life is too short for disinformation. In fact, my entire family avoids disinformation because of what we've been through. Believe me, your government, at EVERY level, lies to you on a regular basis. One of their lies caused a great deal of pain for my family. It was a conspiracy, and it did reach the highest level of government.

Remember the AIDS epidemic. How long do you think our government KNEW it was spreading to the straight community before they decided to USE the test they had developed to detect it? Let me just tell you that three members of my family DIED of AIDS because out government thought it was best to "protect" it's citizens by telling them this was a "homosexual" problem. When the deaths became overwhelming and families started to sue the blood banks after finding out the test had been sitting in locked cabinets for a VERY long time, our government finally admitted to the public the disease was spreading. MANY people died before that test was put into regular use! The bottom line is that the blood banks claimed it was about cost, but it was clear that government felt the need to "protect" us from the knowledge that the disease was spreading. They thought it would cause panic because they didn't know for sure if blood was the only way it was spread!

Question your government! They ALWAYS think us "regular people" can't handle the truth. We are just so unable to deal with things rationally, you know?

There's just a part of my truth for you.

and no matter how little it is based on, you would go out of your way to prove any and every silly charge made about you, just in the name of truth?

If people who don't know you at all make up a crazy story about you, you feel it is your obligation to disprove it, in the name of truth?

You're a rare fellow.

I think it is just difficult for people to see through all the lies that have been put in their way. It usually takes a HUGE tragedy, and the unraveling of the mystery behind why that tragedy was allowed to occur, in an age where the sharing of LEGITIMATE information could have avoided that tragedy, for people to make the choices in their lives to count for something.

It is also quite clear to me tragedies of this nature are occurring at a lot faster rate than ever before. I think it's time some folks started realizing there is a message in those tragedies, regardless of whether or not there is a higher power behind them!

The truth does indeed "set you free." It's time our government and "we the people" live by those words and use the lessons the truth teaches us.

this is about whether a person is obligated to go out of his way to disprove somebody else's cockamamie theory.

There's a local man here who has insisted for well over 20 years that Stephen King killed John Lennon. The quality if his evidence is about as good as the evidence that Gannon = Gosch.

Should Stephen King turn himself in for a full investigation as to whether he killed Lennon? Should he make himself available to investigators and turn over all his private records so that they can determine whether or not he killed Lennon? Is it his obligation to do so?

the issue in this thread. ONE man claiming ONE thing without much proof is NOT the same as MANY people with MUCH real and proven evidence "investigating" the "possibility" that there is a connection. (The Franklin cover-up DID occur and it IS documented, you have fallen victim to the cover-up if you believe otherwise)

No ONE has said they have "proof positive" that Gannon IS Gosch or that he is a CIA/Monarch project/psy-ops agent. EVERYONE is perfectly willing to admit, they don't know the TRUTH. Everyone but Gannon that is. He claims he knows the truth, but continues to withhold evidence of that truth.

I'm done discussing this issue with you, BTW. I know what you feel. I just don't agree with it. (Remember what I said about me an my opinions?) I am a mother of two children and I feel this information is a danger to this country to withhold, even if the information is as simple as ONE male prostitute who has pictorial evidence against some powerful individuals and is using it to blackmail them. That is ALSO a possibility within this story AND it has serious ramifications about how an individual within our government votes and acts while in the service of his/her country!

The issue needs to be investigated fully and the truth needs to come out.

but nice change of tack.

At first, it's all about the moral obligation to get to the truth. Well, somebody believes King killed Lennon. Does King have the moral obligation to indulge the nutjob and prove that he did not in fact kill Lennon?

Gannon/Guckert has no obligation to prove anything to your satisfaction regarding the Gosch case. It's an outlandish theory with zero evidence. Zero. Do you understand that? The whole case is based on rampant speculation. There is not a single lick of evidence that Gannon = Gosch.

So why is he obligated to disprove that theory? Famous figures could spend multiple lifetimes trying to disprove everything some whackjob says about them. Are they obligated to do so?

He won't deny it. Just as he won't confirm that he is indeed James Guckert. The closest he has come is to say that James Guckert is the name on his driver's license. However, in the journalists' panel on C-SPAN yesterday, he was consistently referred to as Jeff Gannon.

He has had ample opportunity to deny the Gosch connection, but he has chosen not to, has even fanned the flames, daring investigators to continue the investigation.

And, in my opinion, from the panel interview yesterday, there is no way that JG is 47 years old. I hope someone who knows/knew the real James Guckert will come forward as a result of this exposure. There is much more to come on this story.

to not "provide" a DNA sample at the suggestion of a mob.

I guess THAT'S true too.

Gannon IS a prostitute. Gannon, as a prostitute, COULD have damaging information against individuals that literally hold American's lives in their hands!

It does NOT matter WHAT the damaging information is. WE all KNOW that damaging information could be as simple as a love affair with another man who happens to reside in the White House if you are a fundie. THAT would not worry me as long as Gannon did NOT use that information to bribe his lover because I have no issue with homosexuality. However, THAT would bother a fundie because they believe it is an evil equivalent to murder!

I make NO claims that the information about the Gosch/Gannon connection is "fact" and, from what I can tell, neither does any OTHER DUer. It is the INVESTIGATION that needs to be addressed. IF there is a connection an INVESTIGATION will uncover it. However, if your government has it's way, right now. There will be NO INVESTIGATION.

Noreen Gosch IS NOT claiming that Gannon is her son! She is only asking that Gannon is investigated because there are similarities that she recognizes in photos of him. Noreen is NOT a stupid woman. She is well aware of the fact that NONE of those similarities PROVES Gannon is her son. Noreen is VERY aware that Gannon may not be her son. She is always very careful to point out SHE DOES NOT KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION.

NOTICE I use words like COULD, not DOES. I am, just like any other "rational" person, concerned that there will be NO investigation! I am not claiming to have uncovered "the facts!" Do any of those here that think we should leave this subject BURIED understand that BLACKMAIL is one of the most powerful tools that anyone could use against you?

It's the INVESTIGATION that must not be allowed to go away!

came across as sane and sober citizens who have noticed something odd and want to check it out. Nothing wrong with that, think of it as "Neighbourhood Watch". They made no outlandish claims and merely suggested that a dna test or even a denial from Gannon would settle the matter.

The host was clearly nervous. Perhaps it was his first day, or perhaps he sensed that this could be big.

Was the host an ex cop? Is that why he said that Gannon struck him as someone who wanted to talk?

There is a big difference between people who postulate a "conspiracy" theory and have nothing to back it up, but yet claim it is true, and those who say

"Here's an interesting theory, we have some evidence to support it, we don't know if its true yet but we think its worth investigating further".

Believe it or not, the second method is the is the scientific method.

I agree with your sentiments.

said gannon /guckert is johnny..just that there are some striking coinsidences..and we would probably not be even looking at this if the media did their job..like investigative reporting on gannon...so how after post 9/11 did he get in the white house that close to the president for 2 years with no credentials to be there??

where are you media..why are you not doing your job...well if they won't look under every rock for an answer.."we the people " have an obligation under our constitution to do so..
it may cause a bunch of theorys..but isn't that how most investigations start with theories?? isn't that how you develop a story??
a good investigation looks at all angles..or its crap and not worth a piece of paper!

when investigators look for a murderer..don't they start out with a list of possible suspects and put theories together and scenarios and see what is most likely and then go from there...they connect dots..and when too many coincidences occur that are beyond possibility to be just coincidences..well then the playing field becomes more focused...

every scientist begins with a theory..then they must prove it right or wrong...

i have not seen anyone who has looked into this seriously say..this is johnny ..without a doubt..i have seen people who would like to ignore all the coinsidences say without a doubt he isn't but i have not seen anyone who is really serious about looking into this theory that he is or isn't johnny..i have seen them investigate..and throw out as many hypothisis..but nothing definitive..no one could do that..

there is nothing wrong with beginning with a theory..many of our most incredible life saving medicines started with a theory.
many murders have been solved with theorys..
our country was found by a theory..that the earth was not flat...
and if people are afraid to look into theorys..well we might as well give up as a nation of forward looking people..because no new medicines will be found, no new industries will be found, no space travel can be found, we might as well dry up and give up.

fly

:hi:

For example, whoda thunk that the Reagan white house staff would have been entertained by young male prostitutes?

psychic warrior...david morehouse...remote viewing by our government?? these are the guys who saw the russian embassy was bugged inside the beams of the new russian embassy built while reagan was pres??

ohh they saw lots with remote viewing..you just might want to look up remote viewing and david morehouse and phy ops..

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0312964137/102-0204884-2604176



look up "stargate" cia ops..

Remote Viewing - David Morehouse - Remote Viewing - David Morehouse - Seeing Is Believing In 1988, David Morehouse found himself in the shrouded world of the US military’s top-secret Stargate ...
http://www.toolsforwellness.com/42729.html


David Morehouse - Former CIA Remote Viewer -audio interviews and ... - ... Remote Viewing with Former CIA Remote Viewer Dr David Morehouse ... David Morehouse brings forth an incredible tale of an amazing journey and profound ...
http://www.newsforthesoul.com/morehouse.htm


might give you a little insight why nancy reagan believed in other "sources"..

fly

it would be Gannon.

My dinosaur computer can't download real player!

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Can we all move on now?

What exactly is meant by this?

think anybody who disagrees with them is a CIA plant.

:)

Is he Jaimie Gumm, or Jayme Gumm, or John Grant????

THEY DON'T WANT YOU TO FIND OUT !!!!

Same initials. Come on MAN, SAME INITIALS! What more proof would you want!?!?

i am curious...see i was a delegate to the dem convention...and i was a flight attendant for 33 yrs with a pretty responsible job...

i lived in the mid west when all these kids were getting kidnapped..and my son just happened to be going to the second school in the nation to start a child indentification program and john walsh came to my sons school when this was all going on right after a little girl in my sons school just happened to get away from a kidnapping ...the year johnny was kidnapped and alot of kids were disappearing...now..call me silly but if this does nothing but brings light to a horrific story and keeps one kid from having this fate today..what was lost?

how bizzare is it to bring light to a time that was hidden behind closed doors?? and hushed up??

why? because it makes you uncomfortable??
remember when child abuse ( beatings and sexual was a hidden thing..and now we talk about it so we can stop the cycle..is this something we should keep in the closet??

shouldn't every american know that kids were dissappearing in the mid west in the 80's and it was kept hushed up??
tell me how do we protect our kids when we keep these kinds of secrets??

look into the case right now ongoing in france where they just built a 1.3 million dollar court room just for a case like this..and the elite were involved.." eyes wide shut" ring a bell?? well this is the real thing..and a shirnk was hired for the judge before the case began because its going to be that gruesome..and a shrink has also been hired for the jury who will hear the testimony...

so what we lilly clean americans should not discuss this case or the entire thing ..because someone might make fun of us..well bring it on..if thats what it takes to keep just one kid in this country safe...let em laugh at me...

remember wayne gacy dressed as a clown..but he was evil..

if i am afraid of someone ridiculing me for exposing a malicous injustice perpetrated on children..well then shame on me..then i was and am a pretty crappy mom!

fly

I saw most of it at work but recorded it at home but found out I set my vcr for the wrong time zone!

Thanks!

Who's your mother? And may we speak with her?

For those who can't use Real Media

http://home.comcast.net/~crackodawn37/MSNBC_04805.wmv

FWIW, I don't believe that Gannon is Gosch, simply because I think he's much older than 34 years.

Every one seemed pretty damn reasonable except for that MC guy. I don't know who he is, what his shtick is, but clearly if I did I wouldn't think he was such an idiot.

Andy and Noreen seemed way level-headed and made good, sound points.

Regardless of what you think of the merits of the Guckert/Gosch connection, if it helps to put the fact that a prostitute (essentially a criminal) and propagandist was working out of the White House Press Room in the minds of the people who only watch the MSM, I'm all for that.

CM an excuse not to explore the realities of Gannon/Guckert. That is a very bad thing.

When the truth about Gannon comes out, who's gonna believe it?

gannon?? what is 4 months not long enough?? or two years while he sat in the white house not long enough?? when is long enough for any of the so called msm and government to look into gannon?? so what we think they will miraculously start tommorrow?? ohhpleaseeee...how long do we wait till hell freezes over??

gee my son was in kindergarten when the kidnappings were going on in the mid west..k.c. nebraska iowa...we started programs then fingerprinting kids..we were second in the nation to start any program to protect the kids...my son is now graduated college , played 4 yrs of minor lge baseball and now has a real job ( ahh) and i am still waiting for an investigation by msm and this government for all the kids who were kidnapped and disappeared...so tell us please..how long do we wait now for a real investigation by msm and this government??

my guess is ..hell is beginning to freeze!!

fly

What a boob.

He sucks shit, doesn't he?

ISN'T true to put the accusations to rest. If it is, I can see them avoiding it indefinately.

its called the Constitution.

I theorize that you are the Lindbergh Baby. Please report for testing.

See how that works? People aren't obligated to disprove zany conspiracy theories about themselves that crop up on the internet.

But most people would actually want to dispel untrue rumors about themselves, I would think.
That doesn't seem to be the case here. Why is that?

Guckert/Gannon doesn't CARE whether these stories are propagated or not. They keep him in the limelight.

Furthermore, the people he works for LOVE stories like this getting airplay. It allows them to make the left look like lunatics.

Its amazing how people can be active, eager participants in their own downfall.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

:applause:

And too bad DU got smeared. Period.

Because - that prick of an announcer won. And there's nothing anyone can do in hindsite but wring their hands and say, "we lost".

period.

What did we lose? And who are we?

Gannon could resolve all of the issues if he would

1) Tell everyone how an uneducated, unexperienced, man that operated and advertised on "male escort" websites, obtained access to the White House. He has not answered the question, he has provided "explanations" that are unbelievable and everyone that works in the media knows that.

If anyone lost, it was the Press Corps that had the man on their panel yesterday. They did not ask him the real questions. They tip toed around the issues and they missed out on the opportunity to resolve the issue. The mere fact that they included him on their panel and that they wholly failed to ask him "real" questions harmed their credibility. They lost.

I haven't seen it and spent hours last night trying to watch it and doing a search for it to no avail.

Thanks in advance! :)

possible Plame connection. Although I do hope they look into GH Bushes kiddie prostitution ring.

this would be a bad move... kiddie prostitution across state lines is a Federal Crime with very serious federal time.

I have to wonder, have they finally miscalculated and are they loosing control of everything?

I watched the video and thought Andy came off as thoughtful and careful not to step over the line. Noreen Gosch also came off as credible.

As for the host, former detective Deitl, well, I thought he was grasping at straws. It sounds like this is going to be an ongoing investigation so who knows, maybe he'll come up with something.

My basic take on this whole issue is that there's simply not enough evidence at this point to make the case. It's opened the door into alot of dark, ugly places and some accusations against highly placed people that strain credibility to say the least.

I think that the people who have been investigating this should continue to do so. Maybe there should be a special place on DU for conspiracy theories and investigations into same so that people who are into these theories can share information but so that it's seperate from the more political type postings.

A good reminder how fucked we got.

just as soon as the audio for the new lyrics of Beck's Loser is finished. It could be as big as JibJab.

Maybe he's still moonlighting.

Seriously, isn't taking DNA samples without the person's permission illegal?

stamp. A good detective has many other ways. Jeff has probably quit turning tricks, or is very careful who he licks these days, LOL!

I missed it. Thanks.

"The Franklin Cover-Up: Child Abuse, Satanism, and Murder in Nebraska" by John DeCamp.

Basically, a witness, who was an alleged child abuse victim, named Thompson in 1990 in testimony given to an investigator working for the Nebraska State Legislature.

The witness claimed that Thompson was the director of a snuff film produced at the Bohemian Grove (or a place very much like the Bohemian Grove.)

Then recently all the Gannon/Gosch speculation started and Thompson suicides himself, or is suicided depending on what theory you like.

in the Pointblank article from last Friday, not just Paul Bonacci:

http://www.pointblank-dm.com/cover.shtml

"I think it's kind of strange that Hunter Thompson would commit suicide at this time," says Gunderson. "Several kids told us that he directed snuff films. I think it's a strong possibility that he was murdered and I strongly suspect that it's all connected."

I don't agree with the conclusions that Gannon/Guckert can possibly be Gosch because of the huge age difference but I have to admire the ability to explore a hypothesis and even get some media attention. Good job. No reporter ever learned truth by being afraid to investigate a few unknowns.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72