Should U.S. Troops be Pulled out of Iraq Now?

after listening to some of our soldiers that have served over there.

men and women. We've killed enough of our own impressed soldiers. We've maimed enough on both sides. We should stop now.

...is considered a moderate viewpoint.

It is the code words for imperialism. Only the US "the Great White Hope", the "Christian Shepherds" know how best to handle these "darkies" problems. They are no more than children and need our guidance to "fix" their troubles. And if we have to slaughter a huge number of them in the process, well, it's for their own good...

You said it well!

means putting permanent garrisons in the 14 permanent military bases that are being built.

Can anyone verify this very important information?

I think some sort of presense should be in Iraq to assist with the rebuilding of the country (which personally I think we should pay for), but not US Troops. First because we're over extended and these troops, especially the National Guard, are needed back home. Second because US Troops are no longer trusted over in Iraq.

But by turning this over to the UN (and much of the profits we were going to steal from the oil), they can send UN Peacekeeping troops (and we're talking a couple thousand) to help with the reconstruction of the country

It's hard to know.

I've yet to hold an elected position

western humanitarian workers being there until the area is safer. Has there been anymore news about abducted Jeffrey Akes that anyone has heard?

...being covered more in the MSM.

What's up with that?

in what way? If it doesn't involve Brittney or Jacko, and doesn't present * in a good light, they'll never show it.

Let Bush and his buddies pay for fixing it.

get the hell out of there!

The bush/CHENEY administration lacks the moral capacity to do anything but harm.

We have to finish the mission.

Destroying the WMD?
Breaking the alliance of Osama and Sadam?
Stopping terrorism?

Oh, wait. There are no WMD. No alliance. More "terrorists" now than ever.

Or, perhaps it's building "democracy"? A "democracy" enforced by 150,000 occupying troops?

Perhaps you could tell us about "The Mission".

I realize this will fall on deaf ears. You've no doubt already decided that I've been brainwashed by the corporate media, and no matter what happens in Iraq (on Lebanon, etc), that Bush's war is nothing more than an imperalist nightmare.

Or maybe not. Maybe you recognize that this thing is bigger than George Bush, and Karl Rove. Sure, they sold this war all wrong. They f'ed up with the WMds. Bush has made a lot of mistakes. But here's my point:

Saddam's out of power, the Iraqi elections are a success, and it looks as if democratic fires are being lit through the Middle East. We should've gone with the democracy plan in the beginning, but here we are.

Not to mention the 100,000+ dead Iraqis so that we could "spread democracy". Sounds an awful lot like how we "spread democracy" in Vietnam, Guatamala, Honduras, Angola, Chile, Congo, and many, many, more countries that we "democratized".

Note: The Iraqi people want us the hell out of their country by a wide margin. Is that how democracy works? I think not.

...fate.

No?

hundreds of thousands of people all over the world, wherever there is a government we believe to be undemocratic or corrupt or "evil"? And obviously we have to leave that up to our glorious leader to decide. And if he feels like he has to lie to us to get us to do all of this killing, well, his intension's are good, eh?

Why are our troops still needed in Iraq?

Wouldn't that be killing two birds with one stone? Giving gainful employment for Iraqi's and getting Iraqi fixed. We could help "oversee" some of it with a fraction of the U.S. manpower

A couple of highly experienced U.S. engineers and a 1000 gainfully employed Iraqis.

Why not?

At the beginning, that would have been a good strategy. Unfortunately, the Bush administration had faith in the miracle of corporate colonization. They wanted Starbucks and Sprint to rebuild Iraq instead of the locals.


Too late now. The Bush administration was laid bare for their general lack of concern for the well being of the Iraqi populace. Now anyone who collaborates is targeted for killing by nationalists.

The biggest "problem" right now is American presence in Iraq. Like it or not, we have to get out of the way and let the Iraqis get to work killing each other for who will govern the country. The only difference will be the number of dead Americans.

into bloodbath at the present, but not forever. No matter what we do - EXCEPT stay there for years...will revert to civil war at some point.

in your home?

If you can't understand that, you're risking committing far greater atrocities than those that were used to justify war to begin with.

America does not go abroad in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own.

John Quincy Adams (1767 - 1848)

Exactly what constitutes a success for Iraqi elections. The candidates were ANONYMOUS!!!!!!

How can you hold an election in which no one knows what or who they're voting for????

I'm familiar with the Mill Maher approach. Yes, lets hope it works. But the violence and casualties continue to GET WORSE!!!! Iraq is NOT getting safer. It is getting more dangerous!!!!! It's more dangerous than Vietnam ever was. At least then, the US had pretty good control over Saigon where westerners could wander in relative safety.

This "war" is already lost. The only question is how many Americans will die. Iraq is doomed to a civil war. And WE cannot fight it for them.

because there is no "mission" to finish except establish a permanent US presence in Iraq. That is all it was ever about. Oh yeah, and that oil helped.

why is it not obvious to everyone?

I was trying to be ,well, undisruptive it the word.

We have ravaged Iraq and now need to stay there to "spread democracy"?

How do you give what you don't have?

(Okay, putting on my fire retardant gear.)

is reading this poll and understanding that she's on a differen't thought pattern than her people she is suppose to be representing.

Dear Senator Clinton,

Sorry I can’t contribute more to your campaign, but times are rough. Several years ago I was making fifty thousand plus dollars a year. Now (thanks to the Bush Economic Disaster) I’m making a lousy eleven dollars an hour working for a cheap labor con and doing the same kind of work. I have watched my health insurance costs go through the roof and my hourly wage and benefits dropping. Employers use to offer pension plans, but that’s a thing of the past. Instead they replaced it with the wonderful 401K plans. Trust me. It’s pretty damn hard to contribute to a 401K plan making only eleven dollars an hour. I have sat and watched my investments dwindle and spin in muck for the past five years. Now the cheap labor cons in Washington want to do away with social security. Could it be that the cheap labor cons are salivating over the prospect of millions and millions of desperate baby boomers willing to work as cheap labor? Whatever progress the working class has gained over the past one hundred years is going down the toilet. Its past time for democratic party to stand up and fight for the working class!!!

This endless oil war in Iraq has gone on far enough! We have lost one thousand fifteen hundred and fifty-three soldiers in Iraq for what? At first we were told it was because Saddam was a treat to America with his weapons of mass destruction. First few days of the war I knew that Iraq didn’t have weapons of mass destruction. What is the reason for having WMD’s in the first place, if you’re not going to use them against an invading army? That should have been a wake up call to the wilfully ignorant, but no politicians chose to believe even a more ridiculous lie when the filthy Bush administration said that Saddam must have moved them. Why would, he had moved them? Was he saving them for a rainy day? All I ask is that the democrats in Washington use some common sense when dealing with Bush. Now the democrats are saying that we can’t pull out of Iraq. We made this mess and now we have to clean it up. I ask you to please use some freakin’ common sense! Look at this mess in Iraq from a common man points of view. Let’s say that my neighbor and I don’t get along. I throw a bottle of orange juice through his window and climb in after it. I tell him that I’m going in to clean it up, but I go to his fridge and drink his beer. I then force his wife take off all her clothes and make her to pose in different positions while taking pictures of her. I shoot his children, and then get to work cleaning out his wallet. He tells you to get the hell out, and you say I can't leave yet, I haven't cleaned up the orange juice yet, while you proceed to punch him in the face. Get the idea???

I’m sick and tired of democrats voting in favor of Bush’s nominees. I’m watching this Bolton nomination just to see how many democrats will bend over. I’m also appalled how many democrats voted for that bankruptcy bill. What the hell were they thinking about?

I know I don’t have the influence that a powerful lobbyist might have, but anyway here is my lousy ten bucks that I pledged for your campaign over the telephone. I know it’s not much, but it’s all I can afford.

My name &
Address

...voting to "stay and fix" is NOT a moderate viewpoint among Dems.

Please, Hillary - wake up and smell the coffee - or endure a legacy as one who could have, but chose not to, represent her people.

For the one-billionth time, the Clintons are not and NEVER have been liberals. They were moderate, globalist/corpratists.

Then why do we need the the troops there. If its "Mission Accomplished", and all is good and rosy then troops shouldnt be needed? Right?

Bring em on home!

Shouldn't we let the winners run the country instead of us?

we stayed and stayed, more people died, more money went into the nothingness of the war hole, and nothing got better until we finally pulled out.

It will be the same with Iraq.

"We get out and pay reparations." But otherwise, right on!

a batch of pretty lies for continued occupation and wholesale slaughter. What "We" think doesn't matter anyway it is what the Iraqi people think and by an 8 to 2 margin they want the US troops out yesterday. They know it is corporate colonization. Only the true believers in the US and the sorely misguided on the moderate left think there is any shred of legitimacy for US in Iraq.

us to clean up Iraq? Or more to the point finish building our Military Bases? I am so over the "clean up our mess" campign

The Kurds are our natural allies. Our presence would be accepted there so long as we're willing to endorse an independent Kurdistan.

That will piss the shit out of Turkey. But if you're willing to do the "RIGHT" thing, you should be willing to piss of a psuedo-allie.

The Kurds deserve their own nation.

March the war criminal to Hague. Starting with junior.

Bring the troops home.

Amazing how in the US we needed to know the results 1 hour after the last poll closed. In Iraq, a two week wait while ballots cast for anonymous candidates are "counted" behind closed doors is perfectly acceptable.

This is Vietnam all over again. The only difference is that we're staging fake elections to empower our local dictator.

The ultimate irony is that whoever the US supports will be seen as a foreign puppet. The best thing the US can do is WITHDRAW so that those who have western ideas can stand on their own without being labeled Bush puppets.

As long as we are there, the fundamentalists will be identified as "nationalists" by the Iraqi people. Ergo, they will receive their support.

When we do end up withdrawing (inevitable). There will be a civil war. The Kurds and the Shi-ites will carve up Sunni territory. Those sunnis will flee to the likes of Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. The cycle of violence will continue.


At a core fundamental level, we must accept that there are some problems you simply cannot fix.

Exactly. Our hands are dirty - let's clean then by getting out.

I say we pull a shit load of Iraqi soldiers out of the country, train them so they are ready to defend Iraq, put them back in Iraq and then get the hell out. We can't just pull out with the Iraq forces not ready to defend the new (lame but better than Saddam Gov.) If we did Iraq would explode in to violence again and Saddam's party would take back over. George Bush has fucked us over! We lose no matter what we do but we have to at least follow through with training the security forces. If we don't we will look like scum bags (beyond what we already do) and the Curds and Iraqi people in the north and south who are moderate and good people will then be screwed and thrust back into war again. WE CAN'T DO THAT TO THEM!!! I know you all want to get us out now but this is complicated becuase many Iraqi people are DEPENDING ON US!!! It's just not as simple as you all think it is. JESUS!!

wholeheartedly.

It was always about power and control by the powerful and control freaks. The human beings in that country were worth less than a box of puppies abandoned on the steps of starved mountain lions.

WE DON'T DO BODY COUNTS OF CIVILIANS!!!!