is bush really a born again christian or just an asshole pretending to be?

i can't make up my mind

The first without the second.

I think he's a user and he is using people of faith
for political purposes . they trust him and he abuses
that trust .

He is. Just watch "When God Entered the White House," "With God On Our Side." You'll see that they're just using it.

:shrug:

... but I do think there's a difference. Whereas someone using the protestation of faith to get votes and public popularity is certainly sleazy and it means he's capable of subterfuge to get what he wants, it could mean, at worst, that he tends to the sociopathic in personality, and at best that he's a just another sleazy politician.

Now, if on the other hand, he really is a true believer, his public statements about god telling him to strike Iraq, that god works through him, etc., are very troublesome--they indicate someone who's truly delusional. I think most of us, even without psychiatric training, can see that hearing voices telling one what to do is indicative of the onset of psychosis.

So, if I had to choose between a conniving, corrupt, manipulative Bush and a Bush that was barking mad, I'd definitely choose the former.

Cheers.

cheers indeed...hic...

imposter!

Anyone who refuses to listen to his own congregation regarding the invasion of Iraq cannot claim to be a man of God.

Seriously.

The Bushes are assigned religions according to the Family's political objectives.

Just because he says he is doesnt neccesarily mean that he is.
These fundie morons cant figure that out. He's the proverbial "Wolf in Sheeps Clothing."
Fuck bu$h!

Perhaps he thinks he is a Christian, but his actions, while consistent with being an asshole, are at odds with the tenets of Christianity.

He's an asshole; and he doesn't even try very hard at pretending.

as him saying that he is doing things because God told him and what he is doing is God's will, I have been surprised on several occasions that he wasn't struck dead by lightning on the spot!

I've met some like him. Arrogant ass before, arrogant ass after.

Being a born again Christian dry drunk who can't be told when he's wrong certainly reminds me of other born again Christian dry drunks I've known.

If not, it's the second.


Keith’s Barbeque Central

He doesn't know right from wrong either.

A good defense when he goes to trial.

B'al T'shuva Lubavticher - I have a Beard, but I sneak Bacon Wrapped Shrimps.
<>

:smoke:

He saw where the Christian right was a large voting block, but In *'s short-sighted way, never realized what the price would be. I think this will bring him down. No one before him was willing to sell out to this crowd.

Now he might, but for a long time he didn't.

I mean, Clinton did! But he didn't get any brownie points, did he.

The New Republic citing how the Clinton's attended weekly as did Jimmy Carter who was also a Sunday School teacher, even while serving as President. That is a man of faith.

And a wicked asshole.

Let's see, his story is: he woke up hung over the morning after his 40th birthday in 1988 and decided to quick drinking right then. He then took spiritual guidance from the Grahams (Billy and son Franklin, long-term Rasputins for Presidents), opening his heart to Christ.

This transformation is awfully convenient, and sounds constructed. Could it be that what really happened back then is Papa Bush put the smackdown on sonny boy's personal excesses, so as to begin grooming him for the throne?

Corrobarating circumstantial evidence: The other baby Bush brothers (Neil and Jeb especially) are all known to have been heavily into the banking plunder of that period. Maybe W was too. They all had a need for some spiritual character cover, just in case they ever faced subpeonas and such.

Each of the Bush sons has a adopted a different Christian sect. Jeb's even a Catholic. Looks to me like a family that knows to cover the bases!

---

ON EDIT: However, we should keep in mind that even hypocritically adopted religious beliefs, repeated to others often enough, have a way of turning real in people's minds. There's the matter that if he's faking it, there will still be enough true believers around him that he can't let the facade fall too obviously. And the more millions of gullible people believe he's some kind of savior of America, the more he may end up falling for it himself. And the more crimes he and his crew commit, the more they're going to feel a need for divine backing in their own minds. Human psychology is funny that way.

Nevertheless, I'm going to place an uncertain bet, which will never be provable, that W's Jesus-and-Apocalypse talk has always been and remains a calculated stance to make his shit smell good on Main Street, rope in the fundamentalists, and project a "mad dog" image to the secularists and to other countries (as in, "oh god, this maniac really believes this shit, what a scary guy!").

---

THIRD MUSING: Certainly I don't buy the psycho-historical line that his messianism is what led us into Iraq (i.e., he had to be greater than his daddy and "God told him" to topple Saddam, otherwise the invasion would have never happened).

This excuses the long-term machinery of imperialism.

The U.S. started planning a Middle Eastern invasion and building the capabilities for an expeditionary force after the mid-1970s oil crisis (under Kissinger). You can draw a line from the Rapid Reaction force (yes, the Carter Doctrine: deal with the reality that imperialism is a bipartisan venture) through the Iran/Iraq involvements and massive Saudi arms deals of the 1980s, the "Clean Break" document of the neocons in 1986, the "dominate-the-world, full-spectrum, two-front" Defense Policy Guidelines of Wolfowitz and Cheney in the 1990s, the suckering of Saddam into Kuwait, the Gulf War, the 1990s ideological search for a new enemy ("Clash of the Civilizations,") the Project for a New American Century, the immediate planning for an Iraq invasion from the first day of the Bush Admin, the post-9/11 conspiracy theory that Saddam backed Osama, and finally, Baghdad in 2003.

It's been a very consistent march to this moment. I don't think the motivations are religious, but religion is an essential, indispensable tool of manipulation without which it would not have been possible.

Since when is being a born again Christian and beng an asshole mutually exclusive?

No offense to born again christians, since every group, Jews, Xians, Athiests, Buddhists, Left right, can all be assholes.

but i been drinkin'

everywhere. * doesn't, he spreads his shit everywhere and then tells people don't step in the shit and by the way the liberals, muslims, freedom haters or whatever did it.

He is a little man, who has a problem with dope/booze/blow.

His Daddy was a very important man who never thought much of junior. As his life threatened to blow apart on him due to substance abuse, in desperation he called on the Lord Jesus to help him out and it worked; he managed to stay clean long enough to muffle the addictions that he still harbors.

So for him, Jesus must be real because he's not putting his paycheck up his nose anymore. Additionally, Jesus must want him to rule the planet. Otherwise, he'd have a bottle of Ripple in his hand right now.

It's not a deep relationship, but then he's not a deep person.

On a related note: Rejecting Jesus' Extreme Makeover

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0417-30.htm

I generally don't like the Hitler analogies, but this one is apt.

Unless you've read different books from me. He was a believer in Eugenics, the survival of the "fittest." He tried a little bit to get the churches on his side, but they were mostly not on board. In fact, he decided at one point to remove crosses from school houses and was met with great resistance from the people and backed down. What we've got now is the American Taliban and Osama-like christo facists.

and i suspect that hitler may have been a bit of a believer in 'something' because of the nazi obsession with cultism and ancient aryan/hindu mythology, as well as chrisitanity.

the nazis really did seek the holy grail, the sword that peirced christ's side, and various other relics and totems. they were into occultism.

of it. I think Bush is the same. I actually agreed with you if you noticed that I used the word "pretender".

for governor of Texas, Karl Rove asked Bush Sr. if he would cozy up to the evangelicals as a way to get votes. Daddy Bush wasn't into that kind of deception. However, W said he could do that and so Rove began his George W phenomenon.

for maximum exploitation. and by god it worked out swimmingly

And his administration has yet to create one net new job when population growth is factored in; in fact, since 2000 most new jobs have gone to immigrants "NATION’S IMMIGRANTS ACCOUNT FOR BULK OF LABOR FORCE GROWTH SINCE 2000 WHILE NATIVE-BORN WORKERS EXPERIENCE HEAVY DECLINES"
http://www.nupr.neu.edu/01-04/immigration_jan.html

and "Job Drought Continues"
http://www.vdare.com/roberts/050404_drought.htm

and "More Bad News On The Jobs Front
http://www.vdare.com/roberts/050308_jobs.htm

This administration's handling of the economy is a disgrace. All that's left is for these supply-side idiots to do what Nixon did and say 'We're all Keynesians now' ! Then maybe they'll do some real tax cuts for the people who need it...I can dream, can't I ?

Could be this blind.

Didn't the methodist church throw him out for his pro-death-penalty
stance? Just what church is he a member of?

the born lucky crowd, not born again.

but hasn't the wit to know he's a fake.

reporter asked when you and your father arent talking politics what do you talk about

pussy.....said bush

is that a born again.

this is the man that sits at the dinner table with a wife and two daughters, looking them in the eye. born again, i think not

And the fools are eating it up!

He left is his SHOE... it's a sign!

He believes nothing and takes the stand his handlers think is appropriate.

Murder, theft, thuggery, rape, torture, terrorism, hate, bullying,
repression and all bush's turds litter the planet... clearly an asshole.

I saw a clip of him attending a church service, he was patting his wife's bottom while he was still in church. Tell me that he found the sermon uplifting.

Only attends church for photo ops.

The Clinton's were very active in church, yet they were considered the devils. Hmmmm....

too bad he doesn't have a prayer closet

And, a person is "born again" if they claim to be. I do not believe there are any regulatory boards which govern that sort of thing.

Being and asshole, and being born-again are not mutually exclusive. There are born-again assholes. Science has proven this.

Bush had to explain away all of his bad behavior in his youth if he wanted a political career. What better way then to say that he had become a Christian and put all of his wicked ways behind him. Plus he gets the fundie vote. Double play.

the lord forgives it all the moment you are re born. even the lowliest junkie at he bottom of the well can find redemption and forgiveness.

it works like a charm to the suckers.

doing a really convincing job of it.

on second thought, he could just be a really self rightous dumb a-hole that uses his beliefs to justify his actions and to avoid thinking of issues too deeply

he (and rove) saw the evangelicals his dad was missing out on and looked to take advantage of them.

If he thought that what he is doing is part of Christ teachings, he is very wrong, thats why I think the closest he ever came to being religious is at the bottom of a beer bottles, he is just using the raptured obsessed morons for political gain. Plus what he does, with most of the idiots that isn't what Christ had in mind.

if there is one.

(__o__) that answer your question?

:rofl:

Welcome to DU!
:hi: :hi: :hi: :hi:

...jaaptb one. From what I've seen of him.