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question for centrists: should progressives leave the party?

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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-05 10:17 PM
Original message
question for centrists: should progressives leave the party?
I know I've asked this in various forms, but I never seem to get a straight answer. Instead, we get insinuations spread out over time.

YOUR organization has NEVER been the Democratic party

So, an answer this time? Any chance?
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feelthebreeze Donating Member (570 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-05 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
1. huh?...
You had better start with what your definitions are for: 1) centrist and 2)progressives.
3)Then point us to who the "we" are in this sentence. "Instead, we get insinuations spread out over time."
4) and finally some back up to the phrase "YOUR organization has NEVER been the Democratic party"...
Whose organization? And what do you define as the "Democratic Party", when it encompasses such a large assortment of approaches.

Tough to give answers or continue a debate to such a broad brush stroke.
Whose answer are you seeking? Who is holding out on you?
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-05 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. oh, for fuck's sake.
We all know who we mean when we talk about progressives and centrists. Enough of the demands for definitions.

YOUR organization has NEVER been the Democratic party" is a quote from wyldwolf, in GD-P. Current thread.
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feelthebreeze Donating Member (570 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-05 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. Okay, your well thought out comment gives sooooo much more insight
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DaveinMD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-05 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
2. no one should leave the party
except for Zell Miller. Progressives and Centrists should work together to beat Republicans.
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-05 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. then why are party centrists
trying to drive out party progressives?
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DaveinMD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-05 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. I don't see that happening
I see much the opposite happen on this website everyday.
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-05 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. poor you.
Persecuted by the all-powerful DU activist elites in our basements, while Al From and Will Marshall concoct their next diatribe against progressives. Whatever shall you do?
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-05 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
3. Speaking of 'progressive'...
...this is a good read from Bill Moyers:




Published on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 by CommonDreams.org
This is Your Story - The Progressive Story of America. Pass It On.
by Bill Moyers

Text of speech to the Take Back America conference
sponsored by the Campaign for America’s Future
June 4, 2003
Washington, DC

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0610-11.htm

"...It is the most radical assault on the notion of one nation, indivisible, that has occurred in our lifetime. I'll be frank with you: I simply don't understand it – or the malice in which it is steeped. Many people are nostalgic for a golden age. These people seem to long for the Gilded Age. That I can grasp. They measure America only by their place on the material spectrum and they bask in the company of the new corporate aristocracy, as privileged a class as we have seen since the plantation owners of antebellum America and the court of Louis IV. What I can't explain is the rage of the counter-revolutionaries to dismantle every last brick of the social contract. At this advanced age I simply have to accept the fact that the tension between haves and have-nots is built into human psychology and society itself – it's ever with us. However, I'm just as puzzled as to why, with right wing wrecking crews blasting away at social benefits once considered invulnerable, Democrats are fearful of being branded "class warriors" in a war the other side started and is determined to win. I don't get why conceding your opponent's premises and fighting on his turf isn't the sure-fire prescription for irrelevance and ultimately obsolescence. But I confess as well that I don't know how to resolve the social issues that have driven wedges into your ranks. And I don't know how to reconfigure democratic politics to fit into an age of soundbites and polling dominated by a media oligarchy whose corporate journalists are neutered and whose right-wing publicists have no shame.

What I do know is this: While the social dislocations and meanness that galvanized progressives in the 19th century are resurgent so is the vision of justice, fairness, and equality. That's a powerful combination if only there are people around to fight for it. The battle to renew democracy has enormous resources to call upon - and great precedents for inspiration. Consider the experience of James Bryce, who published "The Great Commonwealth" back in 1895 at the height of the First Gilded Age. Americans, Bryce said, "were hopeful and philanthropic." He saw first-hand the ills of that "dark and unlovely age," but he went on to say: " A hundred times I have been disheartened by the facts I was stating: a hundred times has the recollection of the abounding strength and vitality of the nation chased away those tremors."

What will it take to get back in the fight? Understanding the real interests and deep opinions of the American people is the first thing. And what are those? That a Social Security card is not a private portfolio statement but a membership ticket in a society where we all contribute to a common treasury so that none need face the indignities of poverty in old age without that help. That tax evasion is not a form of conserving investment capital but a brazen abandonment of responsibility to the country. That income inequality is not a sign of freedom-of-opportunity at work, because if it persists and grows, then unless you believe that some people are naturally born to ride and some to wear saddles, it's a sign that opportunity is less than equal. That self-interest is a great motivator for production and progress, but is amoral unless contained within the framework of community. That the rich have the right to buy more cars than anyone else, more homes, vacations, gadgets and gizmos, but they do not have the right to buy more democracy than anyone else. That public services, when privatized, serve only those who can afford them and weaken the sense that we all rise and fall together as "one nation, indivisible." That concentration in the production of goods may sometimes be useful and efficient, but monopoly over the dissemination of ideas is evil. That prosperity requires good wages and benefits for workers. And that our nation can no more survive as half democracy and half oligarchy than it could survive "half slave and half free" – and that keeping it from becoming all oligarchy is steady work – our work.

Ideas have power – as long as they are not frozen in doctrine. But ideas need legs. The eight-hour day, the minimum wage, the conservation of natural resources and the protection of our air, water, and land, women's rights and civil rights, free trade unions, Social Security and a civil service based on merit – all these were launched as citizen's movements and won the endorsement of the political class only after long struggles and in the face of bitter opposition and sneering attacks. It's just a fact: Democracy doesn't work without citizen activism and participation, starting at the community. Trickle down politics doesn't work much better than trickle down economics. It's also a fact that civilization happens because we don't leave things to other people. What's right and good doesn't come naturally. You have to stand up and fight for it – as if the cause depends on you, because it does. Allow yourself that conceit - to believe that the flame of democracy will never go out as long as there's one candle in your hand..."

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JanMichael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-05 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
6. Yes! Get the fuck OUT!
BTW I do consider my views "centrist" it's just that our society has people so very, very, confused about what being a human being is really about...
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-05 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
8. I'm hanging in there and hoping Howard Dean can make
a difference and take us back to where we were when we were the party of labor and the common person. If not, I'm outta here. Some environmentalism and real feminism wouldn't hurt either.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-05 10:44 PM
Response to Original message
9. Only the whiny ones. n/t
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-05 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. lord, is that a relief.
:eyes: Thanks for the straight answer.
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KG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-05 10:44 PM
Response to Original message
11. still looking for your fair share of abuse, bro?
:hi:

something in particular set you off? :)
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-05 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. yeah - it's Friday.
:D :hi: I can't let y'all have all the fun while I'm in class!
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Moderator DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-05 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
15. Locking.
Please don't do this.

Thanks for your consideration.
DU Mod

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