question - when the kid in my reading class

whose dad has been in jail most of this kid's life and who has explained to me quite clearly that he doesn't give a damn about school starts ragging (as he does daily) on the gay kid in the same class, calling him a "faggot" and a "pussy" and finally getting up (remember, I'm not supposed to touch the child, and he certainly doesn't listen to my repeated commands to get back to work) and punching the other student repeatedly, what words am I supposed to use to get this kid to quit beating up the gay kid since I can't actually do anything physical to stop the fight? Lest I be accused of abusing him, I mean.

There are sexual harassment laws for this. :)

Remember that he's on top of my gay student, hitting him. Should I ask him nicely to hie himself to the office, or should I put it more nicely?

Also, you should know that my principal isn't going to be filing any harassment charges in an instance like this.

a disruptive child. If the kid will not go to the office on their own then the office will send someone to escort him (like a school officer). The school officer should be called in the case of fighting too.

detention, suspension, expulsion...

and if any kid gets physical you have a duty to separate and restrain them if possible.

but at the very least get help!

peace

am I not being abusive in some way? It gets dicey - I'm a white teacher in an all African-American school.

you need to get them from the principal.

peace

Using mild violence (if that is even what you would call restraining the kid) to prevent greater violence is morally acceptable.

Of course this is coming from someone who believes that there is such a thing as a just war. :)


How's it going uly?

Of course this is coming from someone who believes that there is such a thing as a just war. :)

Hey, Nederland! How are things with you? Fatherhood still softening you up? :D

Check my responses below - I'm not morally conflicted, just making a point in my usual snarky way. ;-)

My daughter's birthday is today. She just turned two.

I was just taking in a few of the threads going around talking about spanking and its given me much to think about. I haven't spanked her yet, and I have no intention of doing so in the future, but the whole issue has me thinking. If I really believe that in certain cases acts of violence can be morally acceptable, why my outright rejection of something as common as spanking? I wonder what enjoys greater numbers at DU, people who believe that war is sometime acceptable or people that believe that spanking is sometimes acceptable? Are the two linked?

Perhaps I should do a poll...

Sorry to ramble off topic, but thanks for asking.

I'd like to know what you decide upon. I suppose I come at the question from the opposite point of view, although I don't categorically oppose violence given certain circumstances.

Seriously. Dial 911 and report an assault in progress.

the kid will be back in class and nothing will have changed, except that he has one more thing on his rap sheet. At 14 years old.

Contact GLAAD, the ACLU or PFLAG. Ask them for their help in stopping anti-gay violence in your classroom.


GLAAD (Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation):
http://www.glaad.org/

ACLU:
http://www.aclu.org/

PFLAG (Parents & Friends of Lesbians and Gays):
http://www.pflag.org/

What are you proposing should be done?

This isn't some passive-aggressive argument for corporal punishment, is it? A couple of swats on the ass are going to fix 14 years of misguided parenting and education?

If you haven't done more than you have, you've failed the young person who is the victim of the violence. As tempting as it may be, having you beat the offending kid up isn't going to help .... not to mention that the next kid will either be able to kick your ass, or will stick a knife in you back. Call the police -- what you are seeing is a violent crime.

that I'm being somewhat sarcastic here. I've restrained (not beaten) students dozens of times this year to keep them from hurting themselves or other students or faculty.

We have police on campus, and we have called them. The child comes right back.

your part. That obviously can be frustrating. When I worked with child abuse, I knew that no matter how good of a job I did, other people might see things differently, or close their eyes and not see very much at all. So I only took responsibility for my work.

Sometimes that was hard to accept. I remember one time talking to one of the very good supervisors I had about this. He told me that one thing he found was that most kids can deal with shit better, so long as they know that at least one adult is there for them.

It's similar to kids who are stuck between a screwed up custody battle,where the court isn't able to resolve all the issues well. Most kids can hang in there, if they know that the parent that doesn't have custody is there for them still. Not having a parent there, the being rejected, is what is hardest.

(Too bad there wasn't a gym in your area that taught boxing or some other self-defense courses. It's sad it comes to that, but at times it's an option.)

Why, when physical intervention is mentioned, do some people think it means BEATING?

like you would if adults were fighting.

Ask them nicely to sit down and read?

what would you like to do?

do I have DU's permission to physically touch the student?

Adults and children who fight can be physically seperated to protect one or both people involved. That's not the same as actively hitting someone.

After you seperate the kids, you don't grab a paddle to wack em one.

:shrug:

involved a "do not touch" order, no matter what. Thus the teacher walking around, lamely pleading with the child to stop.

I thought you were trying to compare it to spanking. Nevermind. :)

red herring.

like i said above you need to get help from more experienced teachers and you must keep your admins informed.

i am sure they will tell you to remove the bully from the class room if the behavior persists.

peace

remember the handcuffed child was only five years old, it's ridiculous that the only thing several trained educators could think of to do was to call the cops. There's a difference between a five year old and a teenager physically assaulting a teacher or student.

My mom taught at a reform school for teenage boys for many years and had to deal with shit like this a lot more than she wanted to. Teachers there had a button they could press to summon a guard if something was happening, which she had to use more than once. But she was also able to handle a lot of problems with the kids on her own as well.

but don't handcuff him.

Oh, wait a minute, he's a lot older than 5. Maybe he is old enough for cuffs.

Have another student tape the altercation.
This seems to be the only way to protect yourself anymore.
(although some still wouldn't believe what they were seeing-you would still have a defense)

:)

:evilgrin:

make a NO PUT DOWNS rule for your class and strickly enforce it.

#1: Does your room have an intercom? If so, can you call security?

#2: What the hell is admin doing about this? If they aren't doing anything, can you go further up the chain?

#3: Has the other kid's parent called the cops?

#4: Have you talked to the social worker?

#1. Yes and yes. 3 out of 5 times they actually answer. Half of those times someone is actually available to come.

#2. Nothing and no - good way to lose my job.

#3. No - the neighborhood culture is simply to fight back harder.

#4. Yup.

Since it's clear to anyone who isn't over-dosing on PC that he ALREADY controls the classroom.

Principal won't back you up, you're afraid of stepping in and stopping an ASSAULT yourself, lest you be sued for "abusing" him (what, no "Good Samaritan" laws in your state?) and to top things off, you're convinced in the futility of doing anything because the Poor Dear will just be back in few days with "another entry on his rap sheet" (and probably a hard-on to give you Pay-Back, too.)

So what, you're just gonna let it go on? What happens when the Gay kid go home some night, convinces hisself that nobody cares, and hangs himself from the fire escape?

Yeah, that'd solve your problem alrighty.

Quit tomorrow, and do all those kids a favour.

Ulysses, I've read your posts for a long time, but this just makes ME wanna go stick my head in the oven. You've lost control and seem clueless in how to regain it.

As I said, read my post #12.

I haven't lost control of my classroom. Actually, I have one of the best-behaved special ed classes in my school. I just want to know what the armchair behavior specialists on DU would have me do in this daily situation.

And pulling him out. and pulling him out.

Anything in the rules say you can't slip a Cosh to the other kid to help him "equalize things"
(now *I'M* being sarcastic)

since October.

As an aside, this generally takes about 15 minutes out of my 75 minute reading class. Then we get statistics about black kids who can't read.

student's behavior on more than one occasion?

:shrug:

Edited to add: Whoops, I mis-read the thread, thought that's what you've been doing.

So the folks who said "yank him out of class" were correct?

I'd like to know what to do if I can never, ever touch a student.

Honestly, I'd like to know the right answer so I can get an A on the next test. :)

but it wasn't a test.

but has anyone ever suggested that it's improper for a teacher to touch a student under any circumstances?

Removing the kid from class.

Man, this teacher is a tough grader. Even the right answers are wrong, unless they come from him! :D

I've removed him nearly every day for most of the year. I have had to maintain physical contact in order to do so. I'm told this is an unqualified bad thing. What would you have me do?

helpfulness of the advice while sitting in front of your computer?

:eyes:

But why?

Now the whole class must be punished! :D

from your class.

The gay kid gets beaten half to death and has to live with mental scars and humiliation for the rest of his life, the asshole student gets expelled and eventually imprisoned for murder later in life and you go on teaching until it happens again.

I'm sorry if you were looking for a "life is fair" type response, but it isn't. You can't touch minors. That's the law unfortunately. That's why I can't ever be a teacher - I have no tolerance for products of horrid parenting/shitty living environments and was a victim of bullying myself. Kids are cruel and shitty to each other. Columbine has taught kids not one goddamned thing. I personally don't care if anyone thinks that's "blanketing", it's true.

But there has to be some way to mitigate it. Perhaps bribery? Give the little fucker something he wants in exchange for sleeping through the class period?

a different class so you won't have that conflict on a daily basis.

the out of control kid.

spends hours de-escalating the situation? :shrug:

an education you are a heartless "police state enabler" and possibly a racist.

It's not what I thought, but it's what I'm told.

...on one of my students.

The police should then take the offender into custody (W/HANDCUFFS), assault charges should be filed, and this offender should be held in custody until prosecuted for the offense as a hate crime... sentencing to be passed upon conviction.

The school should also institute & enforce an anti-violence policy.


Edited to add: And give the gay kid the phone number of the ACLU.

The OP needs to stop thinking of this as a "school" issue. Time to bring in outside help -- not for the violent kid, but for the victim.

How is PFLAG - of which I'm a member - going to keep this kid from getting beaten up?

BTW, I'm aware of the resources. A friend of ours is an attorney for the state ACLU and a lesbian - I helped her put together this site when she was finishing her law degree.

But whatever. You've made it clear that you're just stirring up shit to make a point. Of course you have access to outside resources. Of course you've removed the kid from class. Of course you've taken the steps many of the posters in this thread have suggested.

But acknowledging that would mean you'd have to get over whatever it is that prompted your indignation. And where's the fun in that?

G'night, Ulysses. I hope that, if there really is a young gay person in your class in need of adult help, that you're not just playing games with him, too.

Glad you got my point, though.

... perhaps your friend, who is an attorney for the ACLU? Wouldn't your friend be able to provide guidance on action that can be taken to protect the gay kid, as well as action that can be taken against the offender? Is this classified as a HATE Crime in your state? If so, what have you done in that respect?

if he's physically abusing another student.

Failing that, I'd call the police.

And then the teacher is a "police state enabler".

The principal called the police on one of her students who was hitting others when the mother refused to come down.

I don't think they handcuffed the kid, but they took him downtown.

I think it is becoming more common probably...don't know if it's the answer but if a teacher is afraid to physically separate children for fear of abuse allegations, what should be done?

http://www.behavioradvisor.com

Also, where the hell is your support staff? Aren't you supposed to have a special ed services provider in your room?

Edited to add: This is your first year, too, isn't it? Mine has been a slap of reality. At least my students beat each other up in the halls and outside of the school instead of in my room.

I teach a self-contained LD class, but our reading classes are mixed up among the whole special ed staff, so I have a big percentage of behavior disorder kids mixed in with LD and mildly intellectually disabled.

This is your first year, correct?

Yikes.

Try that site (linked above). Dr. Mac is pretty damn good.

Side note: shouldn't those reading classes begin in the 3rd grade instead of 9th?

I think you should contact the organizations another poster listed. These organizations can give you facts to back you up when you talk with the administration. These fights could escalate and get the principal and school in trouble. It is in their interests to help you.

Years ago when two students got in a fight right outside my classroom, the vice-principal expelled the attacker (there were witnesses including me) for a couple of days and when the attacker came by to school, he was placed in a different class. That would be the easiest solution.

Anyway, best of luck to you.

I don't have one, but I am not a teacher.

Curious, because I know you pretty well.

has been to physically remove him from the classroom, many times. Usually he gets put in the classroom next door (that teacher and I work well together with different kids), but the result is a continual drain on my teaching time for kids who are already well behind grade level and a constant level of stress for my gay student.

I know how difficult it is for you. That is why I asked.

:hi:

I like the challenge where I am now, and they need teachers. Some of the stuff in GD lately has just pissed me off.

):

on getting pissed over some of these posts lately.

:hi:

It gets easier to deal with once you accept that it's all our fault. :eyes:

for telling my principal 'I didn't give birth to this child!' Actually, I raised my voice a bit.

I did learn not to yell at the principal. But I still think they sometimes treat us like we are these kids' parents and not just their teachers. :mad:

On a CHILD?

<urp>

Oh, 'scuse me, I was chanelling something accidentally.

If you see a crime against a child in progress you are required as a mandated reporter to report it.

you oughta get out of teaching, you don't belong there.

Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

What teacher wouldn't call the police?

Hi -
does the bully have anyone older that he seems to trust? Any one he likes the music, movies,.. anyone he goes "home" to?

besides his mom and I'm not sure of the trust there.

ok- well, do you know anything that interests him. he have anything like stickers, t-shirts.. anything you've ever asked him? other than about the bullying?

ages...

The bully is in 7th grade, the bullied in 8th.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

First, is the gay kid out to his parents. If he is, suggest he get a restraining order against the thug. Then the school has to choose between the two and a parent with a lawyer and restraining order generally wins the squeaky wheel game.

Second, is it possible to move the thug to a different class? If so, do it with or without the restraining order.

Third, If the first two are for some reason impossible, then write the thug up every single time he starts in on the gay kid. Eventually his mom will get tired of him being sent home and demand he be put in another class or she will get him to stop acting up.

The community is homophobic in the extreme.

On the second, yes, but it takes an act of Christ himself.

On the third, I do write him up, continually. The stack is an inch thick. He doesn't get sent home.

One the restraining order, I would suggest leaving the gayness of the kid out of it for the courts. It seems the only relevent fact here is that kid A is being violent toward kid B. The reason for the violence is hardly relevent. But the parents would likely find out the reason for the violence which was why I asked if he was out to them.

As to two, You really might want to push that. If it isn't dumping the bully on another teacher I am unsure of what the problem would be. If there is a conflict in scheduling to move the bully, maybe you could move the victim. I honestly fear for him. This reminds me of middle school for me all too well.

As to three, do you have some method of having him kept for the period when he gets a referral? As disfunctional as my school is, we do have that. I forgot you were special ed when I mentioned the sent home part. He probably has used up his suspension days by now. But if you get him sent out for the period, at least you don't have to deal with him.

You sound like you are in a dreadful situation. I am wondering if your school assigns mentors to first year teachers. If they do, then please use that program. If they don't, then ask your union for a mentor. Many unions have started to provide that kind of service for members. A good mentor can be a God send.

It's unreal. I wouldn't have believed it had I not spent the time there that I have. I don't know that I could even get the kid's mom to go to court for something like this.

It would be dumping, essentially, and they'd just put him back with the teacher who already has the kid for the rest of the day. Office politics comes into play. We're down to 17 days, then the bullied kid gets to graduate to high school. I'll miss him - he's a good guy.

He's definitely used up his suspension days. :) The only person who would keep him during this period would be my program administrator ("head of sped"), and she's usually got 5-7 other behavior cases she's carting around, half of them shrieking obscenities at her. Some days she does keep him.

I do have a mentor - a retired assistant principal - and even she doesn't know what to do with this kid. I've tried all the behavior interventions that I know and made up some besides.

I wish I had better advice for you and for him. But I honestly gave you all the advice I have. I can only hope that both you and the victim are strong enough to make it through this year (yes I have 17 days left too). Your post brings back all I hated about myself and my middle school when I was 14. Even 23 years later that doesn't change. In any case, if I get any other ideas I will post them but frankly I can't think of any. I hope you have a better second year. You surely deserve it.

I've got a number of strategies in place, and they work for most of my kids. Don't worry about me - as fucked up as this year has been, I've had a better one than several veteran teachers in the same school.

I do worry about my student, primarily because he can't even be out to himself (to my knowledge) in his environment. High school will be interesting for him, but he's a likeable kid and has made a lot of academic progress this year. I hope he does well.

Thanks. :)

And I am glad you are keeping it in perspective. I did have one additional though, for next year for the kid. If I recall, you are in Atlanta. In many big cities there is a form of open enrollment, in that if the kid can get to a school he can attend that school. It might be worth a bus ride for him to get away from that other kid (who otherwise would presumedly be in the same classes all over again).

I will be OK. It is just that when I read about the kind of situation that you describe it often takes me back. I get melancholy for a little bit, and then am fine. Keep on keeping on. Good fights often last a very long time and rarely are easy.

It's unlikely that they'd be in the same class in high school here (yeah, in Atlanta).

All peace to you, my friend. Good fights do last a long time, yes.

I leave you, and him, with this for the night.

There is a light at the end of the tunnel that is middle school. One day, you will be out in a real world that has places that values you for who you are and not who you hang with. A world in which the people who call people faggot and pussy are the ones that no one likes. That world is closer than you think. You have just a few more years. And then, you will forget this horrible time and place. The light is there. Just go toward it young man.

and a smiley sticker. Then take your other kids out of the room, let him trash the joint and an understanding asst principal will come in and deal with him.

Whatever you do, don't handcuff him.

;-)

My problem child this week is the kid I think I told you about whose family lost everything in a fire two weeks ago. He has been understandably non-compliant and downright rude. Yesterday another teacher brought him a huge box to take home that was full of toys for him and his 5 siblings. He opened the box, pulled out a Barbie doll and said 'my sisters don't play with dolls, they are tomboys'. Nearly every day since the fire, he has taken home donations from the school or agencies we have contacted. And every day, he finds something wrong with whatever he is given.

So today, I had a long talk with him and explained that it makes people feel good to help others and they aren't giving him stuff because they pity him or feel sorry for him and his family. So can he just say thank you so the person giving him stuff feels good? Then he hugged me. I asked him if he felt like he needs lots of hugs these days. He said yes so I said well you know you can hug me anytime you want. He must have hugged me ten times before he went home.

I know your kids are older but it sometimes help when I can get the problem kid to feel some empathy. Maybe the gay basher can be helped to understand how much he is hurting the kid he is bashing.

Another idea - the last time I dealt with a gay basher I told him that I had read somewhere that people who bash gays are sometimes gay themselves and are afraid that other people will find out. It worked on a 10 year old. And it doesn't involve touching the kid.

You sound like a really great teacher!! My first impulse would be to go with the gay bashing theory, hell bring in some reading on how homophobes are often insecure about their own sexuality …or even point that out loudly during one of these altercations… but no, this would probably further degrade a child who has some real self esteem issues; the bully that is. That said; my humble opinion is that you have two kids in serious trouble here. One who is at risk for suicide and life long emotional scars, not to mention the fact that he has a right to be safe at school and every teacher and administrator should be held accountable for this. Second the bully child is obviously suffering emotionally and I’m sure his mum is having a hard time just putting food on the table. Neither he nor society will be better off if he gets expelled, has a rap sheet, and gets into the criminal system. What he needs is attention. He’s screaming out to find it and you need to make an effort, and considering you are probably just as overtaxed and stressed as his mum, need to find someone in the community that can give him some real support and get him involved in something. Someone had the suggestion of boxing, the idea is not to reward or bribe him, but divert his energy. If you really are worried… and you should be… take him down to the gym, hell take them both.. or the whole damn class teach them about the difference between strength and violence. Just my 1 cent

I am serious.
:grr:

I worked with a brilliant professor (whose name I long since forgot) on a project with problem schools. His approach was amazingly simple and highly effective.
Involve the parents.

Discuss the problem with them, work on a solution with them. If they refuse to cooperate...expell the kid.

Don't pussyfoot around. A school's task is to educate a child. A child's behavior is an issue for the parents.
Too many parents see the school as a place where they can drop of their kid and not worry about it. Wrong! Make them sacrifice a little of their precious time and watch how fast the results come in.

Good luck.

Remember, dad is locked up, I think on a drug charge. (I'll rant about the WoD later.)

I think mom does what she can, but she works. With a lot of our parents, even when we have a working phone number, they won't pick up when they realize it's a school-related number. And it's not my call to expell the kid.

It is not your problem and they don't pay you enough to make it your problem.

Are you getting any support from the school's management in this matter (since it is not your call to properly punish the kid)?

We'll see next year, since the state is likely going to clean house shortly.

Since you have no other means to exercise your authority, you have to demand back-up.
This kid already knows that you are powerless and it sounds like he is taking full advantage of this knowledge.

Again, you are a teacher, not a social worker. His attitude interferes not only with his own education but also with the education of the other kids in your group. Those other kids are entitled to their fair share of you and with one kid demanding all the attention, they are not getting it.

It is unacceptable if you do not get whatever support you need to solve this problem. Obviously you already exhausted your options.

white people? What about the slower kids, he start w/them?
Did he ever have detention?
And do all of the teachers ever have meetings where you can vet this w/ the others in case they have similiar problem/ perhaps someone else could break through? I know you teachers hardly have the time for meetings but some kids that you could handle, they can't.. and vice versa. I thought maybe he had a thing against women, and gays.. but is it others too?
Can you ask him where he learned to speak/ act like that, or is just sooo homophobic there that the kids pick it up everywhere?

He acts the same way (or worse) to the African-American teachers in the school. He's looking for someone to get back at, essentially, and the gay kid is the easiest target. Kind of ironic, because my gay student easily outweighs the bully by 70 pounds. He just doesn't fight.

that his fate does not have to be the fate of his father.. regardless of why he's in jail. The mother cd be kind of entraining him.. "you 're no good, just like your father." But then again, seems like he really wants someone to physically touch him.. I know taboo..
but the bullies I knew were either beat or ignored, nothing in between. If either was going on for him, it's years to unlearn, unless you find a way to cinvince him that what he feels he is going to end up like, doesn't have to be.
Do you know how long till his father gets out? Or have you met him/or asked the bully what he feels about his dad coming home?

He *wants* to be like his father, and has told me he wants to live with him when he gets out.

He's an attention kid at the end of the day, yes.

if this year you've only got that many days, is there any sign that you see right before he goes on the attack? if there is one, there's a couple of seconds before that that gets reacted on. Is there a diversion you cd create if you saw that occurring? it cd be anything loud really. if it's before class, and you catch it beforehand, could you call out his name and tell him you need to speak w/him?
Do you think he realizes that when the said father gets out, it might not be the fairy tale he's thinking? He'd say he didn't care , and that you're wrong.. but imagine that moment when he sees this just ain't so.. he's going to be a statistic. unless the dad is really devoted..
but for 17 days.. I'd go w/ a diversion unless it's physical and too late, and I'd probably jump in between them. He isn't a knife carrier, is he?

(I have a paraprofessional), but it's a matter of reaction time and whether or not I'm actually engaged in trying to help another child learn to read instead of keeping an eye on the one at all times. He's not the only behavior kid we have in the class, so things will occasionally happen while we're dealing with something else. Diversions don't work.

I wind up between him and other students a lot. No knives to date.

give him an assignment first thing he gets in there/ Wd he finish it/work on it? any type of work that you give him that doesn't frustrate him(bully)completely, but does keep him engaged?

I was picked on all through school, being female, 6" taller then most of my peers, and kind of geeky. One day in 6th grade I finally snapped when someone behind me threw a baseball glove at me. I turned around and punched the biggest boy in the face. I hit his arm and he hit himself! We were both sent to the office, where I was sternly told not to do that again, and the bully was sent home with a black eye. Amazingly enough, his whole crowd stopped picking on me, and would move to the other side of the hallway even when we were in high school.

Perhaps the other boy should learn to defend himself. After all, it doesn't look like the adults can help.

I was the ONLY African-American kid in my school at the time. Surprisingly, few people gave me a hard time. But this one racist @#&* used to intimidate me all of the time. Although I was bigger than this kid, I was still scared of him. One day one of the teachers took me aside and explained to me that if I didn't do something sooner or later there would be more people picking on me. He suggested that the next time the kid did anything to me, I should just go nuts and start punching him. He also explained that if I told anyone about this conversation that he would deny it.

Sure enough next week the kid got in my face calling me a n****r. I let loose and started punching his face. He was so surprised he did not punch back, only trying to cover his face. After about 30 seconds (which in a fight is an eternity) two teachers pulled me off of him. We both got one day of out of school suspension. That was the only fight I have ever been in ever.

For the next three and a half years he never made eye contact with me again, let alone speak to me. And no one ever said the n-word in presence.

you've made me like you after all this time. :)

Problem being that the bully in question pretty regularly gets the crap beaten out of him by other kids and it doesn't change anything for him. I've been tempted to have that conversation with my bullied kid. Maybe I will anyway.

Most people will learn their lesson after the first time. Does he just have a learning or is he developmentally disabled? Or perhaps he has some MH issues that need to be adressed. Although kids are overmedicated these days, I suppose it may be necessary for some if they pose a risk to themselves or others.

where this jackass is now?
probably has some kind of shrub sticker on something.
glad to hear you listened, and I bet you were scared and exhilarated.
I have no idea why people feel the need to pump this shit into impressionable minds, let alone feel justified themselves.
one of my bullies threw a golf ball at my eye in fourth grade. just insane.

And he still has a mullet.

in kindergarten. I teach the same thing Ulysses does, but my kids are a couple years younger. We deal with far more gay bashing than I like to admit. It's really sad.

holy shit-
that's just insane. I thought it was just the kid who ate the glue.. that young? makes me wonder..

after the whole Tinky Winky is gay deal.

and I really don't think you're one of them.

The admin has a responsibility to protect the bullied kid and keep the other children in an enviornment where they can learn. They're opening themselves up to a whole world of legal trouble, bad enough with the bullying and even worse if the kid were to commit suicide as a result. Cover your ass in paperwork and keep your own copies so nobody rolls the blame to you if something like this happens.

The parents of the bullied kid should be lighting a fire under somebody's ass to keep that other kid well away from thier kid. They have an obligation to move him to another school, get admin to move the other kid, give him permission (and training if needed) to defend himself if nobody at the school is solving this problem. Whatever it takes, they need to be defending thier kid. (BTW, is this kid abused? It seems odd that he isn't fighting back when attacked by a much smaller agressor.)

The mother of the bully is probably a lost cause. If she were worth a damn as a mother, her kid would be getting some help for his behavior problem. He probably learned his biases at home.

If you can't convince bullied kid's parents to advocate for him, he'll probably go through the same thing in high school, maybe worse since he probably won't have the size advantage anymore and he's got a reputation as an easy target. To avoid that he's going to need to fight back or make friends nobody wants to tangle with.

BTW, how many kids are in this class?

is that true?

if so, man you got screwed! but that wouldn't be unusual for a special ed teacher. self-contained special ed classes often end up being the "dumping ground" for all the students other teachers "can't handle." without consideration for placements that fit the needs of the students, or consideration for the liklihood of the teacher being able to actually teach, much less control, the classroom!

who is making the child that "doesn't give a damn about school" attend daily? i mean, i know it's the law and all, but often, by age 14, special ed kids who don't want to be in school can avoid it often.

the best you can probably do, if you are not getting any help from your admin (also not surprising for special ed) is seat the gay student in a way as to best be a non-threatening "buffer" between he and the aggressive/abusive student.

all your special ed students are in your class because they have special needs. you're going to have to find the way to be in control of your class. you're going have to "tune in" so to speak, with your violent student as much as you do with the victim of his anger.

5 years old is too young to handcuff. 14 years old is too young to write off. at least in my opinion.

which is a distinction I'm going to quit making because it and private schools are completely different beasts.

Nah, not screwed. I signed up for this. :crazy:

necessary and prudent.

Because the gay (?) kid's parent's might sue either you or the school if you don't, depending on what the law allows, since this is an established pattern.

I would physcially stop the student from hitting the other student, i would then get the biggest student in the class to sit by this thug to stop him, I will also tell this thug and tell the rest of the class that

"A Lot of people who show anger to homosexuals are just repressing thier true feelings"

...then get the principal and the guidance couselors and whoever the fuck else's job it is to interface between the school and the parents of disruptive kids into your classroom. Tell them to bring the necessary paperwork for suspending a student with them when they come. Videotape the behavior if you must.

If the parent(s) and/or guardian(s) of this bully care at all about their kid, perhaps having him suspended or expelled will turn things around for him. If they don't care at all, just do what you have to do to legally remove him from your classroom, permanently. It's a win-win situation, either way.

Life is too short for you, the gay kid, and most of all the bully to be wasting your collective time in that situation as-is.

Haul him down to the office. It works. I've seen a good PE coach have a kid in each hand.

You don't teach 5 year olds Uly, not the same thing as letting a little kid go wild in a classroom and then having the cops handcuff her. That video was absolutely the dumbest thing I've ever seen. I still can't figure it out.

Have you put the question to your colleagues & Administration? What's their plan? Why do you ask a bunch of strangers online when you obviously know all the answers beforehand?

Would it be OK if the kid being beaten was not gay?

Once he started beating the other child, it is your duty to restrain him, send another classmate to get assistance, call the police, and have him detained by public safety officers. At this point, the system takes over and should send him to alternative school. No school system would deny that you should restrain a violent child who is threatening the well being of another classmate.

nothing to stop it), I would contact the police and a good attorney. Assaulting someone is a crime the last I heard.

On edit: There was a study which revealed that most school shooters were horribly bullied. Standing by while a kid is verbally and physically assaulted is inexcusable. Is this post on the level? Even our local school board (as bad as it is) has a bully policy which specifically states how to deal with both physical and verbal bullying.

If you are just sitting there lamely pleading for a boy to "please stop beating the gay kid" then I have to say I question your ability to be in a classroom. I certainly don't want my kids in your classroom. Common sense and the law dictate that you MUST protect the kid being beaten: if you cannot or are afraid of doing it, the least you should do is yell for help and call the principal immediately and yell for security.

Your response would get you sued if the boy being beaten were my kid. Sorry to be harsh, but I think you are really abdicating your responsibility to assure the safety of your students by standing there doing pleading with a violent kid.

who is doing harm to another student. Also, in NY, there is a zero tolerance policy: anyone involved in a fight gets suspended for 5 days (I think it's 5.) Unfortunately, most administrators suspend the kid being beaten too.

Tell this kid that those who are the deepest in the closet are those who take their frustration out on others they percieve as gay. It is projecting kid, and boy oh boy, you are shining away. And say this in front of the whole class

If nothing else, he might just stop to keep others from thinking that he is gay. Worth a shot:shrug: