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Kire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-05 10:24 PM
Original message
Sociopaths Have High Self-Esteem
Edited on Wed Apr-27-05 10:28 PM by Kire
Thanks, lady!

http://tinyurl.com/9zecr

Edit: I am talking about what the guest on the Daily Show said just now. The link points to her latest book.
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Birthmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-05 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
1. We sure do!
Sorry.
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Kire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-05 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. putting you on ignore
just to be safe
:freak:
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Birthmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-05 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. You wish
I'm gonna wear a hat with big, fluffy, multi-colored feathers all over it. Let's see you ignore THAT! :D
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Athame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #1
10. Sorry
a sociopath would never say that. }(
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Birthmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 03:53 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. You mean...
Sociopaths aren't people that are really, really nuts about being social? ;)
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Stand and Fight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-05 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
2. What are you talking about? n/t
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Kire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-05 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. edited
apologies
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Stand and Fight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-05 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Thanks a bunch.
You had me very confused for a second there! Now I'm tracking all over the place.
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smirkymonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-05 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
5. Also the author of "The War Against Boys" - how feminism
is harming our young men. :puke: :puke: :puke:

The freepers are out in full force on Amazon - trashing the well thought out reviews dismissing this book as more republican claptrap.

:puke:
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Kire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. ?
Edited on Thu Apr-28-05 01:23 AM by Kire
what's so "well thought out" about them? IOW, why do you hold them in such high esteem?
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smirkymonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #11
20. I was talking about the people who were trashing the book.
The came up with some good point as to why this book is crap.
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Kire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #20
27. what were the good points?
why were they good?

/good is a synonym for high esteem/
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dweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-05 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
6. and then there's
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Ron Green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-05 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
9. I do believe, though, that when you separate "self esteem" from
"self respect," you see the difference. I used to work with a population whose members had tons of self esteem, and their behavior was consistently anti-social. What they did not have was self respect, earned through personal accountability and caring for others. We would explore the differences between the two terms as part of our learning.
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BrendaStarr Donating Member (491 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. The "Self Esteem" of psycopaths has been found to be a false one
Just look at Dubya.

Plenty of swaggering, but really underneath he has the need to take more and more from people to make himself feel better.

Leave it to a freeper to play up the phony self esteem for the real thing.
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Ron Green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #13
25. That's the very point we were making in working with sociopaths.
The "self esteem" they exhibited was based upon a false sense of self, and therefore a false measure. We had to examine the nature of the Self, or rather the difference between the ego self and the True Self, or Higher Self, or what you wish to call it. Of course, this raises the issue of a consciousness outside of the individual, and is therefore risky territory.

Bush shows the same "esteem" characteristics of the sociopathic individuals I've worked with, in that he does not admit to mistakes and is in no way self-reflective in a humble way. His "self esteem" is considerable (after all, he's the President of the United States, right?), but I would put his self-respect at just about zero.
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Bouncy Ball Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. That "tons of self esteem"
is a *false* sense of self-esteem and many people with mental health issues do have that.

But it's not TRUE self-esteem.
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Save The World Donating Member (105 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 05:14 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. Heh.
You just don't like dodge ball.

If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball.

:-)
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Bouncy Ball Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. My comment about self-esteem had absolutely nothing
to do with dodge ball. I could have left her comments about dodge ball completely out of this discussion and been perfectly happy.
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 12:35 AM
Response to Original message
12. One last question for Mr. Bush
Sir, can you name any mistakes you've made in your first term?

"Nope, not a one. Well, I regret the mistakes that other people have made, but me? Nope, I can't think of any at all."
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shockra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 05:04 AM
Response to Original message
16. 1 in 20 people are sociopaths.
I remember a doc on Oprah saying that a few months ago. I caught the end of a show discussing Scott Peterson which I thought would be total crap. But wow, that expert had some scary things to say.

I know that I've met a few, but apparently I've met a few more than I thought.
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 05:20 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. Does anyone know what to call someone who cares deeply
Edited on Thu Apr-28-05 05:22 AM by BlueIris
for himself, and in that sense has real emotions, but literally does not care if others live or die? Is that sociopathy or something else? Yes, I could try to research it myself, but I'm feeling such warmth toward my fellow DUers, I just wanted to see what you all thought first.
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jackelope72 Donating Member (726 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. Sounds like Narcissistic (sp?) Personality Disorder to me.
My little sister is NPD, big time. Absolutely hellish to live with.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
21. I disagree. There is a difference between arrogance and self-esteem.
Sociopaths are over-confident (arrogant) and never look within themselves to ascertain what truly motivates their actions or whether their actions reflect the nature of what kind of person they want to be e.g. they actually avoid inner reflection.

Those with healthy self-esteem are frequently reflective.
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Kire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. I didn't say they had "healthy self-esteem"
I said they had "high self-esteem".
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WyLoochka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
23. "Other Esteem" is what is
missing in sociopaths. Flamebait I realize, but I think the decades of concentration on going all out to boost "self esteem" with the concomitant neglect of "other esteem" has been misguided, to say the least.

I have a close relative who is a very mean bully and I'm sick of hearing the excuse "it's because he has such low "self esteem." That is just pure bs, he esteems himself highly - he has no "other esteem" and that is what causes the problems.
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Ron Green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. This points to the nature of the Self as something entirely contained
within an individual vs. a self that is shared. As I mentioned in a post above, I've found it useful to differentiate between "self esteem" (the measure of the self) and "self respect" (deeply regarding or looking at the self.) The inescapable conclusion from this sort of work is that, to truly regard the self and its implications, we must include others and their concerns as part of our true self, and therefore we are connected at some levels and identical in some ways with others.

So just as self respect is a true attainment resulting from respect for others, "self esteem," as I have worked with it, is a feel-good construct that carries no responsibility to others or to society. It may get you through the night, but it won't get you through your life very well.
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mahatmakanejeeves Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
24. on the bright side
at least I'm not a sociopath.
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