Has anyone had their silver/mercury fillings/amalgams taken out? Worth it?

Did you feel a difference in your health? Was it painful during and after? What did you do for chelation to get the mercury out of your body? Would you do it again, or just leave them in? Any feedback, reccommendations would be greatly appreciated, as I have read so much, but have had very few conversations with anyone that has dealt with, what I believe, is going to be quite an issue, eventually. There are countries that forbid such fillings and have programs for safe removal, while the US flipping ADA and every insurance plan, still contends that one of the most toxic substances on the planet is just fine...in our mouths. Thanks so much for your reponses.

I'd be interested to see what people say about it, too.

ience is always valuable. kick

have a link that may or may not help you decide.... my former dentist did train with this man whom some will label a quack, others a saint.

www.hugnet.com

Then there are papers that cannot be brushed off.

1: J Alzheimers Dis. 2003 Jun;5(3):189-95. Related Articles, Links

Apolipoprotein E genotyping as a potential biomarker for mercury neurotoxicity.

Godfrey ME, Wojcik DP, Krone CA.

Bay of Plenty Environmental Health Clinic, Tauranga, New Zealand. godfrey@wave.co.nz

Apolipoprotein-E (apo-E) genotyping has been investigated as an indicator of susceptibility to heavy metal (i.e., lead) neurotoxicity. Moreover, the apo-E epsilon (epsilon)4 allele is a major risk factor for neurodegenerative conditions, including Alzheimer's disease (AD). A theoretical biochemical basis for this risk factor is discussed herein, supported by data from 400 patients with presumptive mercury-related neuro-psychiatric symptoms and in whom apo-E determinations were made. A statistically relevant shift toward the at-risk apo-E epsilon4 groups was found in the patients p<0.001). The patients possessed a mean of 13.7 dental amalgam fillings and 31.5 amalgam surfaces. This far exceeds the number capable of producing the maximum identified tolerable daily intake of mercury from amalgam. The clinical diagnosis and proof of chronic low-level mercury toxicity has been difficult due to the non-specific nature of the symptoms and signs. Dental amalgam is the greatest source of mercury in the general population and brain, blood and urine mercury levels increase correspondingly with the number of amalgams and amalgam surfaces in the mouth. Confirmation of an elevated body burden of mercury can be made by measuring urinary mercury, after provocation with 2,3,-dimercapto-propane sulfonate (DMPS) and this was measured in 150 patients. Apo-E genotyping warrants investigation as a clinically useful biomarker for those at increased risk of neuropathology, including AD, when subjected to long-term mercury exposures. Additionally, when clinical findings suggest adverse effects of chronic mercury exposure, a DMPS urine mercury challenge appears to be a simple, inexpensive procedure that provides objective confirmatory evidence. An opportunity could now exist for primary health practitioners to help identify those at greater risk and possibly forestall subsequent neurological deterioration.

PMID: 12897404

when my fillings got old, they were replaced. The new dentist said my old retired dentist had done a good job with the fillings. No, I didn't feel any difference in my health because of the change.

We had country water and no fluoride. Lots of fillings when I was a kid because of candy, questionable juvenile dental hygiene, etc.

Had them all replaced when I was 35. No great health change. I was already a healthy eater so I didn't do any mercury purge.

My dentist was Dr. Darlene Bassett, of New Orleans, an amazing person. I eventually moved to New York. Dr. Basset went on to become the director of the Louisiana Dental Association, or whatever it's called. Don't know if she still is.

Do it again? Of course. My old ones were old and crumbling, they HAD to be redone. We just decided to do them all and get it over with. The ones I have today are still marveled at by my new (well, newer) dentist.

negative effects after the removal?

The whole thing was a very positive experience. And, besides, I got rid of those awful black things.

My sibs and I had mouthfuls of the things from standard dental practice when we were kids. (All but one of us are now in our 50s.) I really had no idea about the depths of the controversy until fairly recently, and so have felt no urgency about having it all done at once. Fillings get old and begin to crumble around the edges (that doesn't sound so good, does it?) so they need to be replaced -- or the tooth cracks and needs a crown.

The dentist I've been seeing for the past twenty years began using the newer white product exclusively a number of years ago, and as a result I don't have very many silver amalgam fillings left. I just took a look in my bathroom mirror and could only see them in my remaining 3 wisdom teeth, but there could be a few more. He doesn't seem to be doing anything very extraordinary about the drilled-out bits, just keeps suctioning everything away so I don't swallow it.

It's the expense, as much as anything, that has kept me from doing anything drastic; that and the somewhat unproven nature of the claims as I first heard about them. By the time I realized the old fillings could possibly really be a problem I was already well on the way of the gradual replacement I mentioned. The one time I asked about it, my dentist said he never uses silver amalgam at all -- and I think (but don't recall exactly) he as much as said no one else does either.

I will be switching dentists soon, though, and will be sure to ask up front about materials, just to be sure.

Bottom line: I haven't lost any sleep over the issue, but I am taking care of it. And I'm glad my kids have had better dentistry (including fluoride) than my sibs and I did.

Good luck to you -- just find someone you trust with your mouth is all and work out a plan with them.

Hekate

On Edit: You did ask how we felt before/after the procedure. No difference for me, but then I wasn't expecting anything. Dentistry is unpleasant -- I carried over a lot of fear and pain from my childhood dental experiences, so in my adult life I've concentrated on finding dentists who are not only competent but believers in novocaine. My teeth don't seem related to my health problems, but my emotional state affects my teeth -- i.e. jaw clenching and the like.

when kids, used mercury. The joke is we ate very little sugar, but had tons of fillings, and as soon as new teeth grew in, they filled them, so essentially only my four front teeth are without fillings, the rest have old, large silver ones, and a number of old crowns and a broken tooth. I am super sensitive to begin with, but the last few years, allergies, insomina and fatigue, for no other reason, I can find. I eat very healthy, no drugs, no smoke, no alcohol, exercise. Cannot use a cell phone, or microwave, and all of this metal in there, without my permission and huge $$$$ to change. Yes, the research has revealed major expense and no insurance, I have found yet covers it. So I am going to make appeals to excellent dentists, do a little at a time, there must be a possibilty of trade/sliding scale, it feels important. Thanks for sharing, I really appreciate it.

the dentist,s have suffered? What is also sad, is that my uncle, who did some of the dental work over the years, when we were teenagers,... recently passed away, fairly young, and I keep thinking it might have had something to do with all of the exposure. It is so recent that anyone is starting to understand that toxic substances are best left out of bodies. Good that your children will not have to deal with this.
Take care and thanks again.

Oh, one of the best things I have found if you have TMJ, or are stressed, find a good massage therapist that has studied Cranio-Sacral techniques. It is very relaxing, and there are techniques you can learn to help release the pressure.

but honestly, I did it for cosmetic reasons and wasn't even thinking about the mercury thing! Good point, though, about the mercury. Of course, it was entirely painless to swap fillings, no problems whatsoever, and the new plastic fillings are not only completely invisible but also chew and wear as well as the old ones. The only drawback is the expense. Go for it! You're worth it!

or just Evolve Already! Thanks for the support. Good for you, It is better to Look and Feel Good:)

have the dentist do it in layers or you'll end up with an air gap near the nerve and thus hot/cold sensitivity.

removal of fillings because of concern of mercury amalgam is unnecessary; scientific research shows no link between fillings and Alzheimer's, etc.

http://www.ada.org/prof/resources/positions/statements/amalgam.asp
http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/mercury.html

the links between mercury and illnesses. The ADA admits that mercury vapors are released when chewing, grinding teeth, etc. It claims only small amount, but think about it. If small amount is released many, many times over the course of the day and night, there is constant low-level exposure to mercury. Believe me, over years this does add up if mercury is recycled daily through the body. Add this exposure to the mercury pollutants in the air, earth and water and you can be sickened easily without having a clue as to why.

European dentists have mostly stopped the use of mercury fillings.

The WHO has determined that there is NO safe level of mercury. It does horrible things to the body and environment. Here's a video which shows the effect of mercury on neurons trying to form in the brain of snails from the University of Calgary. Terrifying.
http://www.virtustate.com/stories/storyReader$1352

I suffer from mercury poisoning due to low-level chronic exposure from age 6-20 due to my father's occupation. I know of what I speak through hundreds of hours of research in this field.It has devastated my health and taken years to get a correct diagnosis. My case is more severe than some, but mercury does cause major/minor health problems that are often never connected to exposure. Our government has had studies showing this, but quickly kept hiding these and had more research done until they had results they wanted. WHY? Because there is so much of it in environment now that it would be impossible to remove and the costs would be astronomical to their corporate buddies.

PA alone releases 9500# per year into the environment. One drop renders the fish in a 10 acre lake unsafe for consumption. How many drops are in 9700#?!

If there is no danger from mercury in vaccines, why did the Patriot Act contain a provision that protects the drug companies from liability from the damage done from thimerasol (a mercury preservative used in vaccines)?

I have a nephew age 7 1/2 months with global birth defects. He has spent his entire short life suffering. His mother was exposed inutero. Doctors were baffled as to the cause of such terrible defects until they found out about my sister's exposure before birth and through major developmental years. Check out Minamata, Japan health problems from the spill in the 1950's. There are still devastating effects showing up all these years later. Mercury is mercury. Second deadliest toxin on Earth. Only plutonium/radiation exposure is worse.

ANY continuous exposure to any level of mercury can be/is dangerous. Some people are more sensitive, thus the health effects may not cause serious problems for all, but more for some.

I have hundreds of links available if you don't want to believe me, but the link in my sig has more at the site for those concerned about the effects on our health for a good start on researching this problem.

Thanks for linking to it.

I came into this thread curious and alarmed, and left laughing at everyone who's been duped.

and do not believe the ADA statment on mercury fillings - it is a liability issue that is their concern. Dentists are forbidden to even discuss the mercury issue with their patient. They will be thrown out of the ADA.
Quietly some are leaving the silver fillings out of their practices out of concern for their employees.
Dentists have a high rate of suicide and dementia as they age.

Do some more investigating before you accept the ADA statement at face value.

Also - you may want to read the charters and statments of purpose of medical associations. Most are primarily established for the economic and business concerns of their members. They are NOT scientific organizations and their position papers serve that interest.

Had several silver amalgam filling from my youth. Several dentists over the last 20 years or so have had to replace some of them due to their deterioration. Have asked a couple of dentists whether I should have them all replace. They both said that replacing them would be a waste of time/money unless they were damaged.

About 10 years ago I was beginning to have neurological related health problems, mainly within the back of my neck and head area. After reading about them in the alternative press, I became convinced that the toxicity of my fillings were at least an aggravating cause.
Had about 20 fillings removed and replaced with white composite fillings. Did not have any reactions, but my health issues quickly improved.

The ADA says that the amalgum fillings are safe, and forbids dentists to remove them for the concern about mercury poisoning. However, patients can get the fillings removed because they are old. Patients should INSIST on the replacements being the much nicer looking "white composite fillings", 'because the silver fillings are unattractive'.
;)

Best of luck to you and follow your insticts.

I was getting very sick. Thyroid had quit. Adrenals very sluggish. Chronic fatigue. Arthritis. Brain fog. Couldn't walk a block. Etc. Traced by hair and urine analysis to mercury poisoning. Had 28 fillings replaced over six months. Chelation -- first oral tablets, then cilnatro tincture, then DMSA and Alpha Lipoic Acid. Body burden of mercury down 90% in just over two years. Feeling WAY better.

The post above on the APO-E blood proteins is important. About 20% of the population is APO-E2 and won't have any problems with mercury. APO-E2 is a natural chelator. About 60% of the population is APO-E3 which provides a small amount of protection, and they will get sick in their 40s-50s. About 20% of the population is APO-E4 which provides no chelation protection against mercury, and they will be sick in childhood with exposure to mercury. I am APO-E3 and, as expected, got sick in my 40s.

Mercury poisoning disrupts several crucial biological systems, which will take a while to bounce back once mercury is gone. So be patient, stick with your program! Good luck!

It's a very nasty monomer (an estogen mimic) that leaches out of many dental sealants. It's toxic in the microgram range- and some of the newer research indicates toxicity in the very low microgram range.

So, unless you know what's in your new composite, you could be jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.

Obviously, I'm not going to convince anyone here of anything, since people here will believe whatever sources back up their initial inclinations on this topic. Thus, some people here may want to skip this post and move along. Since I seem to be the only one here to be able to write from my vantage point, from my side of the drill, I'll stick to my own experiences.

A certain amount of American concern started with the report on dental amalgam on "60 Minutes". I still get patients that refer to that broadcast. I usually tell them a lot of people saw that program, but didn't see the "Dateline NBC" report that contradicted that report, indicting "60 Minutes" in the process. They didn't see the dentist that was claiming amalgam was causing lupus, leukemia, and whatever else and the patients who were suckered into replacing amalgams to stop their problems. Well, the problems didn't stop and things got legal for the dentist. And, of course, NBC treated him like the stereotypical repairman they usually show busted for unethical charges.

However, my local NBC affiliate got wind of Dateline doing a dental amalgam piece and decided to do a local tie-in for the 11pm broadcast. They didn't realize Dateline was doing a defense of amalgam and so they prepared a piece with a local dentist who was anti-amalgam and treated old amalgam like he was handling nuclear waste. The live, in-studio reporter shown before and after airing the taped piece, improvising since they only then realized their slant to the story was refuted by their own network only a few minutes earlier, looked like a fool. And the dentist on the taped piece? Well, my view of him angered me since I know he would be representative of how viewers would then consider many dentists.

He looked GREEDY! A charletan! A huckster! Pushing snake oil for the masses!

That bastard! My job is hard enough. Except when I get someone out of pain or do strictly cosmetic treatment, my work is 100% hated. And that's fine, I accept I have no fan club members. But I don't need a dental composite restoration pimp, working in unison with a local affiliate looking for cheap ratings, calling my profession's ethics into question.

Unfortunately, at this point, I think this is what gets to the core of this controversy. From the "60 Minutes" dentist, to "60 Minutes" themselves, to "Dateline NBC", to the local dentist, to the local affiliate. It's all about MONEY (surprise, surprise). Okay, I guess they're all bastards.

Unfortunately, I see all over this profession. Last year, I saw on the news, obviously picked up from the wires, about (sarcasm on) the latest and greatest dental widget that YOUR dentist MUST HAVE NOW or else your dentist sucks! (sarcasm off). It was a laser tooth decay detector. OOH! LASER! (think Homer's "DONUT!") Well, I tried it. Saw it at the one of the many dental conventions happened around that time. It's interesting, a fun little toy that might have a WOW factor with patients, but not essential for finding decay. But isn't it interesting that this story got on the news at the time of, as I said, many dental conventions going on then, when many dentists buy many new toys. Hmmm?

Want another one? Okay. Ever see that show "Extreme Makeover"? Ever see the dentist Dr. Bill Dorfman there with the ZOOM tooth whitening system and maybe other Discus Dental products. Why Discus Dental? Because Dr. Dorfman is the founder of Discus Dental, makers of ZOOM. I'm not saying there's anything wrong or unethical about Dr. Dorfman or Discus. Just that you might have been watching an infomercial and not even realized it.

I'm sure people at DU can Google all the "scientific" studies they want on amalgam. Research like that is a good quality of DU. Unfortunately, from where I sit, there seems to be reasons based on money to fortify the positions on both sides. If dental amalgam is "safe", some lawsuits can be avoided (Anybody know any parents of autistic children that had the MMR vaccine with thimerosal that now want to sue the makers of thimerosal? I do. And they had twins. Yep, both of them.) and insurance companies can say they are justified in providing inferior or nonexistant coverage on composites on posterior teeth. If dental amalgam is "not safe", then 3M and a whole slew of other companies get a windfall selling much more expensive composite restoration materials. Not to mention doctor folks like myself who will be doing a whole lot more pricey restorations, new and replacement.

Tin hat? You bet! But until I see some peer reviewed data without corporate money behind it, that's my attire.

Personally, I'm more concerned with thimerosal and fish than I am about dental amalgam, as thimerosal is injected into the blood stream and mercury in swordfish is already bound to organic matter when it gets to the GI tract.

What do I do? I'll do both. If the patient has a preference, then 95% of the time it doesn't matter from my end to achieve the result needed. If a patient requests changing from amalgam to composite, I'll lay out the pros and cons, both from literature and my own experience. People get very disappointed when I get to the cons of composite, but some still go for it.

If they say it's for health reasons, I'll explicitly tell them nothing is proven and no guarantees are made. Very, very rarely, I'll get a request from a physician to make the changes. After I talk to the physician, it's obvious they're on a fishing expedition, so I'll tell them send the request in writing.

I know in the future we may find out something definitive one way or the other about amalgam, but I also wonder if we'll find out something about composite as well. Simply put, composites do not last as long as amalgam. Therefore, something with the composites may be breaking down to contribute to the shortened life span.

I also wonder about the other materials involved with composite restorations. Many composites required an acid etching (think Naval Jelly on your tooth) prior to bonding the composite. This may have an effect long term, but no data now about it.

A good friend of mine, one of the best endodontists in the country (and has the C.V., teaching credentials, and frequent flyer miles to give lectures to other endodontists and G.P.'s to prove it) has found a disproportionately high number of people needing endo treatment (root canal) on posterior teeth with composites. Not so much with amalgams. Personally, I've found a little too much post-op sensitivity in a few composites in a certain group that doesn't happen in other groups. Women age 15-25. Sounds weird, doesn't it?
Of course, this is anecdotal evidence. YMMV.

Maybe the future will bring research that, right now, would seem more appropriate to be heard in Woody Allen's "Sleeper" rather than a peer-reviewed journal.

(This post is not a substitute for professional dental diagnosis and treatment. For questions related to your personal dental condition, please see your dentist.)

:applause:

I recently had a couple amalgam fillings replaced - and the dentist only uses composites. I asked how long they expected them to last. They didn't really try to answer - kind of dodged.

Also - I noticed the resin smell. I would think that dentists would want to ventilate that - I thought resin fumes have been linked to cancer.

I'm anti-mercury - and I think that people need to do what they can to reduce their exposure - but unfortunately - that doesn't mean the replacement is going to be a good one. :(

I wasn't sure how my post would be taken even though I tried to stay neutral and just put in items that might not be otherwise considered. Your comments are very much appreciated.

Forgive me for not siting a link for the statistic that your dentist "dodged" on (It's a stat that just sits in the dental part of my brain, probably in the same part that reminds me raisins are the worst food for your teeth), but I'll say the average lifespan for composites are 6-8 years while amalgams are 15 years. Newer materials may last a little longer. While this difference may one day be explained by other factors about composites (weakening of bond over time, lower compressive strength, etc.) and amalgams (the corrosion that amalgams get over time actually helps create a seal around the edges that resists decay), one factor may very well be a difference in molecular stability of the materials under conditions similar to the oral cavity. Time may tell.

Ventilation is a significant concern in dental offices, but usually in non-treatment areas. Specifically, the darkroom and lab. There would also be a concern for the acrylics that are more commonly used for provisional restorations (temp crowns), not fillings. Dentists should be very concerned about ventilation due to the risks of long term exposure, not just the short term patient exposure. I don't think I'd be as worried about it in your case, but ultimately, the MSDS can be looked at.

I agree people should reduce their exposure to mercury (I think everyone is "anti-mercury" and not pro-mercury, in the same way I don't think anyone is really pro-abortion), especialy in the form dentists used to use (just mercury alone that the dentist would measure and mix with pellets to form the amalgam filling material), and that we may get a better restorative material in the future with the esthetics and lack of mercury of composites with the ease of use and handling of amalgam. However, despite the ubiquitousness of dental amalgam that exists over an extended period of time without a definitive connection to disease (a la smoking), I think at this point I'll worry about other issues. Which reminds me, between this thread and my regular patients, I haven't done my usual favorite Monday activity: checking out The Top 10 Conservative Idiots :)

are more "anti-mercury" than others. And some people (on this site) have called me a loon and other such things because I'm more obsessed than others.

For instance - one person recently stated, "I'm just saying the effects on the parts per trillion level are way overstated." Which of course led me to research...


"For humans, it is 1.8 parts per trillion (in the air - the EPA says is "safe").

The Agency for Toxic Substance and Disease Registry in the Department of Health and Human Services says that based on the latest studies, people can consume as much as 0.3 micrograms of mercury per kilogram of their body weight without health risks. Its previous standard _ and the standard still used by the EPA _ had been 0.1 microgram."

http://healthandenergy.com/coal.htm



Another source states:

"Estimates of the amount of mercury released from dental amalgams range from 3 to 17 micrograms per day (µg/day). The mercury from dental amalgam may contribute from 0 to more than 75% of your total daily mercury exposure, depending on the number of amalgam fillings you have, the amount of fish consumed, the levels of mercury (mostly as methylmercury) in those fish, and exposure from other less common sources such as mercury spills, religious practices, or herbal remedies that contain mercury."

http://allergies.about.com/library/blchem-mercury3.htm



This site has a movie on mercury brain degeneration (they also focus on amalgams more than most):

http://commons.ucalgary.ca/mercury/



Another site I check periodically is:

http://www.mercuryexposure.org/index.php?page_id=29


:)

I have a mouth full of dental work. I started changing all my amalgams to composites too. Now I have 4 root canals and
gold caps! (and some gold caps without root canals too.
none of the composites lasted.

mimi

Eventually as you get older if you eat cold or hot food then the metal expands and the fillings you got as a child or teen will need to come out and be replaced. The new replacements will be low/no mercury. I had it done. It makes no difference in health, and it is quite expensive, so don't do it "just because" of some hysteria. Wait until it's medically necessary. You can have it done by an English-speaking dentist in Mexico, there is no need to spend several hundred dollars a tooth on fillings in the U.S. because of hysteria. Take your time and shop around.

It doesn't make any difference in your overall feelings of health. However, if you have one or more that is already cracked or starting to separate, then it makes a lot of difference in the cold sensitivity. If you have any mouth pain, it's definitely time to get it done. If the filling in question is stable and causing no problem and has no decay under it, leave it alone. Drilling out a mercury filling will likely cause as much health issues as leaving it be.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

I know I'm going to sound like a dentist protecting his turf, but I'll jump in anyway.

Whenever, I've talked to foreign trained dentists that moved to the U.S. (often I'll see them working in dental labs here unless they get into an international program at a U.S. dental school to get a dental license) about the dentistry differences here and there, they remark it's not the education that's different. Same books, same cadavers, et cetera. The biggest difference is the materials. The newer, supposedly better materials can't be afforded there.

If you're going abroad for treatment, at the very least, please, PLEASE check infection control procedures. Heightened infection control in dentistry in the U.S. is relatively new (you can thank Ed Bradley for that (not "60 Minutes")). Please make sure their autoclaves (or whatever they use) is up-to-date on testing.

I've heard of patients getting infected with HIV by a dentist in Florida so I don't think staying in the U.S. guarantees anything except you'll pay more. Be that as it may, my dentist had the most up-to-date controls. Keep in mind, many foreigners are probably more afraid of getting HIV from an American, considering our infection rate, than we are of getting HIV from an American-trained Mexican dentist. But I do agree that people should be careful. I've heard of people getting their dental work in Eastern Europe. That worries me, perhaps irrationally, because I've heard stories of medically-caused HIV infection there.

Absolutely, a big different used is the materials. Many if not most of the dentists across the border are still using some of the older materials. My dentist did discuss materials with me, and people should never hurry through the process of getting to know a dentist.

You have to be willing to ask questions and not necessarily go with the cheapest or first quote you get. Same as the U.S. though. A friend got crowns in rural Mississippi in 2003 for $300 apiece. You better believe his dentist isn't using the latest materials either.

Sometimes it is less important to have the very latest material than just to go ahead and get the filling and to stop the decay. We all have different financial resources. The ideal would be to get all care close to home, but the reality is that I live in a wealthy area where I'd be paying $1,500 per tooth for crowns and a fair fraction of that for an up-to-the-minute composite filling. On my low income, it made more sense to go abroad and get the work done. Allowing decay to continue is also a risk of infection and even supposedly of heart disease.

That said, I super appreciate reading all your information and input! The more information, the better for all of us.

Oh, and the other reason the Mexican dentist may cost less is less staff. He did the cleaning himself instead of having someone else do it, for example. He took his own X-rays. Very different from my experience in the U.S. where you have all these different people all around you. Not saying it's bad to have specialists for various jobs, of course it is a good thing, but sometimes you have to save the money where you can and this may be where some overhead is saved.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

...about finding a new dentist. That is, what questions should I be asking him/her on the phone and in the first visit? It really has been about 20 years since I've had to do this. Fortunately, I have the names of three local dentists that three of my friends swear by.

Your comments and info have been very interesting and helpful, and I appreciate your stepping into the fray like this.

The reason I'm switching dentists after all this time is that Dr K has moved completely into cosmetic dentistry, imo, and it's like he's gotten religion when he talks about rebuilding all the teeth in someone's mouth so their perfect bite will last a century. He wants to do this to me, to the tune of 50 grand. It took my breath away, let me tell you; even more so when I kept subsequently being reminded by Mrs K that if I'd only say yes, whatever problem it was I was bringing in would be fixed for good by this magic.

My husband and I stuck with him even after he decided he couldn't deal with insurance companies' delays anymore (Mrs K, who runs the office, will file the paperwork for you, but you have to bring a credit card and pay up front, then wait for your pitiful reimbursement).

Back in the old days he straightened my kids' teeth in gradeschool using gnathodontics (removable appliances), and in the case of my daughter, it made a huge difference in her eventual appearance. When my teenaged son broke all his front teeth in a bike accident, Dr K rebuilt his mouth after the major surgeries were done by the plastic surgeon and the oral surgeon. As a result of my childhood experiences, I've always gone to dentists rather robotically -- that is, I'm committed to keeping my teeth, so I always keep my appointments; but I used to lie like a board in the chair, wincing at every sound and motion even when full of anesthetic. I'm so much better now, thanks to him.

Because I felt he was worth it, my husband was okay with our paying a hefty premium to stay with him after he quit working with insurance companies -- although it became an annual conversation with us when it was time to make our medical choices for the next year. Maybe that was a mistake -- it might have been his way of winnowing his clientele, and it was probably what led him to so dramatically misjudge our resources.

In the past year I think I've gone through every stage of grieving over the death of this relationship, from denial to anger to acceptance. In the past few months, I've just been waiting for the reminder postcard, and now that I have it I'll make that appointment -- with someone else.

Anyhow, thanks for listening. If you ever doubt how important your chosen profession is, or wonder if anyone genuinely appreciates what you do, just look over what I've written.

Hekate

The stuff I could write about finding a dentist, and the practice thereof, could fill a book. Or at least a primetime soap opera.

"...and now it's time for another exciting episode of 'As The Drill Turns'"

Yeah, I see stuff like "cosmetic dentistry", "laser dentistry", "mercury free dentistry" and such along with "Saturday appointments available" and "credit cards accepted". It's advertising, a way to make more money than the other dentist down the street. Unfortunately, I also see the continuing education courses that tell dentists how to push this stuff.

Now, don't get me wrong. I definitely think there a need for dentists to take continuing ed courses on business and marketing. A dental practice is a business, after all, with responsibilities to employees and local and state authorities. After dental school, we get thrown to the wolves, knowing dentistry but zip about the other parts of the practice. While I believe dentist should stay independent business-wise (I'd hate to think of the Wal-Marting of medicine), unfortunately, I think this leaves dentists prey to marketing folks.

Here's something you may not know: I'm sure you've heard of Scientology. Well, they have a division, Hollander Consulting, that does consulting for dentists. They're coming at us from everywhere.

I recently went to a continuing ed course, primarily for dental material review, but as usual, they talked about a wide variety of subjects. One of the subjects was digital photography. Not radiology, not x-ray. This was photography, with the digital Canon camera. Again, I believe there's a place for this, for records, for communicating with dental labs, for showing patients before and after photos, et cetera. But this lecturer (also big on "cosmetic dentistry") went a little farther. After finishing a case, he'd take the after photo and while the assistant was finishing up, he'd run to his private office, open up Photo Shop (or whatever), and make an 8"x10" picture of "after" with a little "before" in the corner. And he'd hang it up in the hallway for the patient, and pretty much everyone else, to see. "See, don't you look great now?"

Now, you might be wondering how the dentist got away with it. I mean, isn't there patient privacy rules, HIPAA laws, and such. Well, when the patient was filling out the patient info and health history form, in the fine print was a line about a photo release for purposes of advertising. Pretty sleazy, huh?

And this was the lecturer! The guy put forth as the example, the standard bearer.

Looking at your post, it seemed the biggest problem was financial, insurance and otherwise. Unfortunately, insurance is a headache from my end, too. I am a "participating provider" in a few plans, which can cap what I charge if, in the insurance company's sole opinion, my regular fee is too high for them (and that opinion varies greatly from insurance company to insurance company). This may have been part of your old dentist's "winnowing" process (not justifying it, just giving background). I still take "assignment of benefits" (where insurance sends the check to me at the patient's option) which many of those consultants tell dentists to stop and get total payment up front. I also wait for insurance to pay their end before billing the patient for the balance if the estimated patient balance is low enough (say less than $100). This kills my accounts receivable, but I hope some patients appreciate it (I know many think it's an entitlement. Oh, well. I don't expect sympathy.)

I also do something that is increasingly rare, extend credit to patients. I know some dentists will use third parties like CareCredit, but I do that in-house. Basically, I'll allow people, once treatment is satisfactorily completed, to make even payments over about six months if they need it. No late fees yet, no interest.

Unfortunately, some folks take advantage of that and try to ditch their responsibility. I'm not talking about people who get on hard times. Those folks will talk to us, keeping the lines of communication open. However, some folks, once work is done and they start getting bills from us, turn a deaf ear. I don't mean not sending in payments, I mean not even talking to us. That's when we have to start our collection routine (and people here are free to critique it). Once the account is past due and we've heard nothing, they get a first collection letter, very polite. After two weeks and nothing, a phone call (which usually is left on the patient's answering machine). Another two weeks and nothing heard, the second letter, somewhat stronger than the first. Another two weeks and nothing heard, the second phone call. Two weeks, third letter. Two weeks, third phone call. After two more weeks, the final letter. And then two more weeks. Four letters, three phone calls, the regular monthly billing statements and no communication from the patient. This is when I get to review all the collection attempts and lack of response. Unfortunately this is when they usually get sent to the collection agency. I don’t like this, but I can’t imagine a regular credit company being that patient.

Does this leave me open to risk? Yep. As of today (opening the collection file), people who have been sent to the agency owe me $11,995.50. Awful lot of money to me.

Now some of these people haven't completely disappeared. One of them, who owes $1,366.40, I know exactly where he is. After I finished work on his wife, he decided to kill her. Okay, ALLEDGEDLY killed her. Sitting in jail right now. Collection agency told me this would be uncollectable. I kinda figured on that, as we were following the story in the newspaper, but I was rather surprised when a family member of the guy called up, not to settle the balance, but to cancel this guy's six-month cleaning appointment. So, let's see now, killed his wife (allegedly) but had enough manners to give me 48 hour cancellation notice. Go figure.

I guess, even though I'm in my 30's, my collection procedures make me a dinosaur. But I do okay. And I can sleep at night.

Financial arrangements are something you’ll need to talk about with the staff at the new dentist’s office and find what’s acceptable for you. But don’t be afraid to check out multiple dentists. Ultimately, you should be comfortable with your choice and that may take some looking.

Obviously if it was me, I’d be looking for things I can’t adequately explain here. But here are some items you should be able to find out on your own. You might not be able to limit your search for these items to just phone calls though.

-advertising. Does the dentist do a lot of external marketing? Radio ads? Cable TV ads? A big yellow pages ad? WHY? The most referrals I get is still word of mouth. Why does this dentist need to attract so many patients outside the practice? Practice just starting? Dental mill? Large turnover of patients? And how is the dentist paying for all that advertising?

-referrals from other patients. Referrals from friends are great, but also consider the quality of the referral. If the person is a lawyer or clergyperson, chances are the dentist was on his/her best behavior. But if the dentist did well with parents AND children (where there’s little profit), I’d put more stock in that.

-referrals from the dentist to specialists. Who does the dentist refer to for specialty work? He/She may do some of it themselves, but the more they try to keep work in-house, the more worried I get. Jack of all trades, master of none. Why do they need to keep all they money-generating work away from highly trained specialists…oh, never mind.

-patient chair. Is the chair comfortable? I don’t mean is it new or old. Old chairs can be reupholstered. But is it a nice pseudo-leather chair that you can sink into or is it hard as a rock? Just an indication of the dentist’s concern for your comfort. (If the chair is cloth, walk out. It can’t be properly disinfected between patients.)

-toothbrush. Did you get a new toothbrush after your cleaning? Many do, but did you get a brush brand you’ve heard of before? If it’s a cheap no-name, it’ll probably do okay, but I start wonder what else is the dentist cheap about?

-assistant. How does the dentist get along with the chairside assistant? Maybe you heard of the Ann Landers advice (or was it Dear Abby?) that told people on a first date in a restaurant to be mindful of how your date treats the waitress, because that’s how he’d eventually treat you. Well, similar line of thought. If the assistants looks like they want to bring in an uzi…

-staff. What does the staff think of the dentist? Would they (or their spouses) have work done by that dentist? Good question to ask if you see them outside the office. (But if the staff is prepared with business cards and practice discount coupons, forget it. They were already taught what to do here.)

-sterilization. Ask to check out the spore test results for sterilization. But give them a heads up. Not too many people ask, and with all the paperwork dental offices do, it may not be something readily available in the 5 seconds at the end of a cleaning. You should know, but you don’t need a “PITA” label from the staff.

-treatment scheduling. Can you just do a single filling first and let you get comfortable with the dentist or will the dentist throw a tantrum if he can’t do multiple restoration right off the bat?

-temp crown. If the person you got a referral from had a crown done by that dentist, how did the temporary crown do before the permanent crown was put in? I don’t mean did it break (that could be the patient biting too hard on something). I mean did the temp crown stay in or did it fall out one, two, three times before the permanent one got put in. Yes, permanent crowns get permanent cement, but also it should have a certain inherent retentive quality based on what the dentist did to the tooth underneath, the design of it. The temp crown can be a harbinger of that.

-one day crown. Does the dentist have one of those machines that mills a permanent crown while you wait. At this time I’d stay away from it. There’s basically one company making them. It’s very new, and I’d like to see how the restorations from it do over the long haul. Unfortunately, the machine’s very expensive. About 90 grand. That’s not something that would be ditched if it was substandard and I’d hate to be married to that if it becomes a lemon. Besides, I like having the opportunity for human feedback at a dental lab for current work and learn about upcoming technology that wouldn’t necessarily fit that machine.

-dental mills. Just stay away. I’d want my work to be done by the guy/girl in charge, not by somebody getting a crappy percentage of collections. That person may eventually become a good dentist, but I don’t need to take the risk.

-composite restorations. In keeping with the thread's topic, what does the new dentist use. For my money, I'd want him to be comfortable with both, not one or the other. Lets me know the patient gets the choice on filling materials (most of the time anyway, once in a while, one material or the other is preferred) and that the dentist is comfortable with his technique for filling posterior teeth, especially since doing composites on posterior teeth is much more technique sensitive.

Good luck!

People still get silver fillings???? thats crazy.

Like most people now in their mid-late 40's I had old silver amalgam fillings in most of my molars. too much candy, not enough dental knowledge as a kid in the 60's and 70's. I didnt even know what dental floss was.

I had my first cracked silver filling replaced with the new white resin composite type filling in 1989. This new filling hurt like hell and turns out it was a first technology resin and was too flexible and pressed the nerve. Had it replaced with a different white resin compound and no problems with it over the last 16 years. About 7 years ago my dentist found another cracked filling and I told him to go ahead and replace all the old silver fillings (just get it over with, I HATE that drill). about 12 fillings total.

no notable change in overall health effects. The new fillings are less susceptible to heat and cold than the old silver fillings. they are also stronger since they actually bind to the tooth like glue unlike the silver fillings which are more like a stone set in a place setting.

All in all I'm very happy with the new fillings. I can look in my mouth and pretend I never had cavities (all white)

Yes, people still get "silver fillings". In my experience, the number one reason people choose amalgam over composite is one of cost. Not just a typical out-of pocket expense, but also the uncertainty of insurance coverage. Most insurance plans have an 80%-20% split for fillings, but many plans don't fully cover that split if composite is used on posterior teeth.

I'm glad you are "happy with the new fillings", but for people who have trouble making ends meet, using the word "crazy" may not be the best choice.

Silver amalgam may be perfectly safe but not for me. I dont like putting mercury in my mouth if I dont have to. I cant believe the composites cost more simply due to labor or materials. They probably cost more because the company AND the dentistry profession can simply get more, much like what the rest of the medical profession does with drugs, surgeries, etc. No doubt the company that sells the composite material to the dentists can and does charge much more for it, not because it actually costs them more to make it than silver amalgam costs, but because they can. Is a dentist's net profit the exact same for a composite filling as an amalgam filling? maybe, but I doubt it. From what I can tell based on personal experience and conversations with my dentist the labor is the same. Composite is considered "cosmetic" which makes it a new profit center. Insurance should cover it the same as silver and someday they probably will.

The longevity of the composite fillings seems good. 7 to 16 years so far for me and no problems at all. my silver fillings lasted from 10 to 30 years so time will tell as to the longevity difference. I definately prefer the way the composite feels in my mouth and the decreased sensitivity to cold temperatures.

also, X-rays. My dentist insists on X-ray'ing my entire mouth every year. no-thanks. "but your insurance covers it" he says. "it's perfectly safe"... may be, but why is that techician hiding behind that wall and why am I wearing this heavy lead sheet??? I told him once every two years is fine by me. we compromised on every 18 months.

Dont get me wrong, I have tremendous respect for dentists. but I'm just your average ignorant patient at the mercy of medical professionals. I trust my Dentist and Optomotrist more than any other medical professional (at least they seem to earn their money). My grandmother lost all her teeth to periodontal disease before she was 30 and my dad has had horrible problems with this disease. Needless to say, I am very concerned and am very discriminating when it comes to dentists. When I find a good one I stick to him/her like glue.

for any of you out there in the Sacramento, CA area I heartily recommend Dr. Calvin Garland. One of the very best dentists I've dealt with.

...the cost of a triple spill amalgam capsule (1.6 gm). This doesn't include the cost of etchants and bonding agents that would be necessary with composite. Composite R&D is ongoing while amalgam technology has been relatively stagnant for decades. But you're happy with your fillings, so I guess that's what counts. Good luck with them.

The "silver fillings" today generally don't have cold sensitivity when used with an appropriate base or liner. I would hope your composite fillings, particularly the deeper ones, would also have a liner or base to prevent trauma to the nerve. Vitrebond by 3M is very common under composites, even though the 9 gram jar of powder and 5.5 mL bottle of liquid costs $168.99 from Sullivan-Schein.

I seriously doubt your dentist wanted to x-ray your "entire mouth" (ADA Code #D0210) every year, but simply wanted 2-4 bitewing radiographs (ADA Code #D0272, #D0274), unless you have an unusual condition he was attempting to monitor.

As for your line, "Composite is considered "cosmetic" which makes it a new profit center. Insurance should cover it the same as silver and someday they probably will." If "Composite is considered "cosmetic"", that is exactly why insurance WON'T cover it.




"Insurance should cover it the same as silver and someday they probably will."...so you're saying insurance will probably do something to improve assisting patients?

:rofl:

When Lazik finally was approved in the US the eye centers were ripping US patients to the tune of $2K to $3K PER EYE. Meanwhile you could get it done in Canada for about $500 per eye (which is what my brother did). Excuses/reasons included the larger number of expensive machines needing to be paid off in the US, the higher quality of the proceedure in the US, etc. Apparently in Canada everyone shares the same machine in a town or city?? In any event, I have a healthy distrust of the American medical system when it comes to $$. A friend recently traveled to Argentina for ankle replacement surgery and state of the art clinics in Sri Lanka, etc. are doing quality work for 1/4 or less cost.

my point.. I believe your 6 times cost figure for composite over amalgam is accurate. and I also believe there is a component of the usual US medical system gouging going on here. the dentist is forced to pass on the costs.

my point about cosmetic is that it should not be considered cosmetic and should be covered.

you are probably right about my x-rays. I have an (irrational??) fear of getting radiated every year. I will quiz my dentist at my next check up about them (as well as composite vs. amalgam).

were a great deal less. My concern, is I have a heard a number of people, with so many large fillings, say it is best to have only one done every 6-8 weeks, again confusing as clearly many people on this post had a lot done at once and were fine.

I am going to look into Canada too, good idea. Canada is not too thrilled with mercury, it is a very smart country. I love it there, and they are anti-war which rocks.
Also have a fantatic health care plan, beats the hell out of the US system, which is non-existent unless you have major coverage.

Thanks and also do you know that there are digital, much less radiation, x-rays for dental purposes? Stick by your instincts. Yes, they may say it is just a little radiation, but I would listen to what you feel to be true. See if you can find a dentist that offers this near you, next time you need them.

kicking

I have a digital radiograph (x-ray) system. The diagnotic quality is okay, but simply not as good as film (think NTSC television vs. movie theater film). The claims of 90% less radiation just aren't true. Again, this is Money talking. Maybe closer to 30%-40%. The claims of 90% are against older types of film, new film already uses less.

The best benefit for digital is patient education. It is easier to explain the radiographic point of interest blown up on a computer screen than on a tiny little film.

However, most importantly, digital x-ray images can be ALTERED FOR UNETHICAL PURPOSES!!! The digital radiograph companies (Schick, Lightyear, etc.) try to put in security safeguards, but let's face it, they can be hacked. A number of years ago, the Journal of Endodontics (a peer-reviewed journal for the profession) had an article about this.

...just another thing to think about before going to sleep tonight.

at night:) kick

now i remember I had all the fillings on one side done at once and the other side done a week or two later. That way I didnt end up with my entire mouth numbed up at once. Then about a month later I had the composite fillings "fine tuned" so to speak. My dentist had me bite down on this colored piece of thin plastic like material and using the color transfer onto my teeth he ground down some of the high spots on the composite fillings to get a perfect bite fit between the upper and lower teeth. worked like a charm. been very happy with the result.

I'd say about 90% of post-op complications are due to restoration occlusion. Once in a blue moon, I get patients that tell me they're having cold sensitivity with new fillings and then look at me like I'm a freak for suggesting adjusting the bite first. Then after explaining about temporary nerve trauma from malocclusion and then adjusting the bite, I suddenly become a miracle worker.

I'm glad he didn't numb up your entire mouth at once. Wouldn't want you to overdose on the local.

read this? I did, several years ago... I pay the diff for my composites.... gladly.

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0895296497.01._PIdp-schmoo2,TopRight,7,-26_PE32_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0895296497/qid=1115082683/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/104-5680766-8315902?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
Reviewer: eyal - newman (tel-aviv, israel) - See all my reviews
(TOP 1000 REVIEWER)
this is a very good book that is dealing with the treatment of chelation-therapy in degenerative-neurologic diseases,such as altzheimer,parkinson,dementia,etc....the explanation on the mechanisms of how the toxic metals get absorbed in the brain, and make their damage is very much acurate and interesting.there are healing nutrition recipes, plus suplements and the chelation-therapy,-all explain very clearly,and there are a few real case histories that gives you (the reader) something to think. it is a very interesting and practical book on the subject, and the chapter that dealing with altzheimer is particularly amazing. i recommand that book very much.


Then there's this:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=1292449
1: Adv Dent Res. 1992 Sep;6:110-3. Related Articles, Links

Side-effects: mercury contribution to body burden from dental amalgam.

Reinhardt JW.

Department of Operative Dentistry, University of Iowa College of Dentistry, Iowa City 52242.

The purpose of this paper is to examine and report on studies that relate mercury levels in human tissues to the presence of dental amalgams, giving special attention to autopsy studies. Until recently, there have been few published studies examining the relationship between dental amalgams and tissue mercury levels. Improved and highly sensitive tissue analysis techniques have made it possible to measure elements in the concentration range of parts per billion. The fact that mercury can be absorbed and reach toxic levels in human tissues makes any and all exposure to that element of scientific interest. Dental amalgams have long been believed to be of little significance as contributors to the overall body burden of mercury, because the elemental form of mercury is rapidly consumed in the setting reaction of the restoration. Studies showing measurable elemental mercury vapor release from dental amalgams have raised renewed concern about amalgam safety. Mercury vapor absorption occurs through the lungs, with about 80% of the inhaled vapor being absorbed by the lungs and rapidly entering the bloodstream. Following distribution by blood circulation, mercury can enter and remain in certain tissues for longer periods of time, since the half-life of excretion is prolonged. Two of the primary target organs of concern are the central nervous system and kidneys.

Publication Types:

* Review
* Review, Tutorial


PMID: 1292449

After all, the book you suggest may have valid data in it. I haven't read it, so I can't be pro or con. However, it would be interesting to know if the author's work on the subject has been published in a peer-reviewed professional journal, or if they gravitate toward sensationalistic work for the general public. Don't know.

The other item appears to be 13 years old and consists of a review of even older studies. Due to the ongoing controversy that hardly has reached a definitive conclusion, I'd prefer to review more recent, first-hand studies.

and am very happy I did. I must confess that I didn't know about the mercury concern, and I did it out of pure vanity, but now that you have informed me of the concerns, I am very glad I did it! Also, no problems with the changeover, but no distinct or noticeable differences in my health: before vs. after. No pain before, and nothing memorable afterwards (meaning RIGHT after the procedure), at least that a couple of Tylenol wouldn't fix. No hot or cold spots before OR after, no pain at all now (several years hence). Only discomfort was perhaps immediately after the dental procedure to change them out, and that was only minor at worst.

feel better.

to have it done by a dentist who believes in this and will do it properly. there are those who will do it ( maybe grudgingly) but i have heard all kinds of stories from people who have not had it done correctly. that is where any problem comes in
but it can be an amazing experience and is well worth it for anyone IF done by "mercury free" dentist with care and experience and follow up

i had mine replaced and removed about 4 yrs ago because of mercury toxicity that is definitely impacting my health
the system absolutely doesnt want people to believe the extent of the damage that amalgams (and root canals etc) are doing to our collective health but it is very real and i personally know quite a few people who are thrilled and thankful to have that poison out of their mouths. but its not just the mercury that is toxic but infections under a root canal or pulled tooth etc that can cause real health problems. i had an infected root canal that had to get cleaned out too

not everyone though is made sick by these things but for those of us who have other problems going on (bad diet or major stress) then this toxicity in our mouths - directly next to sinuses and brain - can be a real health issue

and i have also personally seen the amalgam material that is sold to dentists contained in a pkg with a warning to the dentists about storing it in a biohazard container. as usual the manufacturers know the truth but wont share it. much like tobacco companies. they dont want anything to do with the whole truth because if people were truly informed that would turn the world upside down

if anyones considering having this kind of dental work done please investigate and ask questions and make sure the dentist believes in this and knows what theyre doing. as with other forms of alternative medicine, there are those who get the big picture and practice it and others who will spot fix or dont have a sound medical approach

ok getting off soap box....

...for reasons that are you probably wouldn't think of right off the bat.

I don't think we would agree on your point of it being necessary to find a "mercury free" dentist (I've talked to too many of those dentists behind the scenes. Some nice. Some use it as an advertising gimmick. Some use it to "justify" charging more.) but that's beside the point.

Let me use an example that would separate the mercury issue from what I'm getting at. With patients that, for example, need new dentures, I can tell at the first visit about 99% of the time, just from LISTENING to the patient, how things are going to turn out. If this patient will be satisfied with how they like their new dentures when the process is over.

There are patients who look at dentures with an outlook of doom & gloom, "I hate everything here", "life screwed me over", "your goggles are ugly, too", and I know they'll hate the work no matter how good it is. And then there are those patients who view this as a opportunity to improve their current condition, whether these dentures are new or replacement, are have a certain motivation to improve. Those people will love their dentures.

Ultimately, you had a goal. We don't have to agree on the scientific justification for that goal. Just that this goal would get you through treatment with a positive outlook and an appreciation when you got to the finish line. That's an incredibly helpful part of dentistry.

... I had about 75% removal. I was fortunate that it was mostly in one wisdom tooth that needed to come out anyway because of decay, so, hopefully, there was no drilling into the silver and thus no release of mercury vapor (not sure of this). I have read that a typical pattern is worsening of health problems during the first week because of the removal process (release of mercury vapor). The end of the 2nd week will often bring an improvement in health problems because the mercury is no longer in the mouth. These are statistical averages. I have just completed the first week and I do notice a worsening in energy level. It will be interesting to see what happens next. It's possible that nothing will change, or maybe it will.

a good doctor/dentist that can advise? Let me know how you are doing?

I am taking this one step at a time and will see how I feel in the weeks ahead. There may be side effect with chelating. My doctor recommends DMPS, but some people react very badly to it. I might go with DMSA, but only if I really need it. Thanks for your concern.

s.

I am so moved by DU, the level of genuine expression, truth is very special. Thank you everyone.

Over the years, I have been called a "canary" because of high sensitivity in many forms, which can be a gift and also a challenge. As my dearest friend calls it, "insulation", some have more than others. I tend to see in terms of whole system thinking, meaning that I do not believe that using toxic substances leads to health...if a toxic substance is being manufactured, that means that there is a long chain of exposure....which even if it is more functional...it is still a steady source of exposure, which makes no sense.

I really appreciate everyone's experience and know that what is true for one, is a unique trajectory.

Many countries in Europe have stopped using mercury, Canada has a growing movement. Generally, they have a better position on what is healthy, there is less business involved.

Anyone else, would love to hear from you.

that's a kick!

as they need to be replaced. The neatest thing? They replace them with a white material and I love looking in my mouth and seeing less silver.

porcelain.

He said he feels great -- more energetic. He is convinced that the old fillings made him sick.

I've had mine replaced slowly. Can't tell any difference.

I am a singer, and when I sing I open my mouth up good and wide! So in the mid-80s (was working more then, and could afford it) I had them all changed to plastic.

No real change in health (I was always lucky to have good health) but they look great and are less likely to cause pain with hot/cold liquids, etc. at least in my own experience.

The plastic fillings lasted at least 20 years, recently I had to have a couple re-done, but would have with the metal fillings probably also because they don't last forever either.

The dentist asked if I still wanted the plastic and I said ABSOLUTELY!

If you can, go for it.

All this is sooo interesting and I learned a lot. Thanks everyone for your contributions. Since we are getting "alternative" here in DU general discussion, let me say that allergies and energetic reactions are addressed well by NAET and NAET type techniques. This is somewhat explained at www.naet.com ........at first glance this looks like quackery, but no, somehow, some way, some mechanism, it works well. Of course you have to be able to come to terms with lots of anecdotal evidence, and only one published study on a similar technique.

So what did I do about mercury? I muscle tested weak to it, and I was "cleared" of the energetic reaction with a simple acupressure technique. That might not be enough for everyone, but it was enough for me. I still have a mouthful of amalgams in my mouth. I would prefer not having them, but it's not high on my list of priorities to get it all removed.

for the fillings. Thank you, and I am going to see about that, as a measure until I can replace the fillings.

kicking

For anyone unfamiliar with this technique, it is really amazing and very powerful. I have had excellent results with muscle testing.

Your chiropractor can treat you for mercury, amalgam, AND whatever apiloprotein (see above)type you are--probably. What's so weird is you don't even really need vials-- just pieces of paper with the words on them. Kinda challenges one's views of reality. I've started doing distance treatments myself. I hope the treatments for mercury and amalgam help you!! Maybe ask him to try some combinations with specific teeth (and the apiloproteins of course)!!

These type techniques are very alternative here, but in some places, they are *almost* mainstream. Obviously I was very skeptical at first, but willing for my daughter to try anything rather than slip into complete chemical sensitivity. Now I do muscle testing and clearing for my family and friends. That keeps me busy and is my major interest-- mainly intellectually. I have a complete library of energetic books now. My family laughs because my favorite book is named "Amazing and Wonderful Mind Machines You Can Build." I am always quoting that thing. I also love "The Field" by Lynne McTaggart.

Yes, Mercury is toxic--in solution. But, try getting that shiny metal do dissolve!

You need very strong acid. Some other conditions not found in your molars.

Industrial processes release mercurous or mercuric chloride (or sulfate or whatever)--that's very bad. But it's a very different chemical. Banning elemental mercury because these chemicals are bad is like banning ordinary table salt because Chlorine is a poisonous gas and Sodium will burn your skin if you touch it.

Truly, really, really, there are horrid environmental hazards out there. Elemental mercury in silver amalgams and thermometers and electric switches isn't one of them.

Histrionics based on ignorance of basic chemistry only hurts the cause.

No chronic health problems either.

NBD. Not terribly invasive. They were replaced with something that looks like enamel (probably plastic).

The thing is, mine were deteriorating, I would pull a piece of silvery stuff out of my mouth now and then.

Anyway, the mercury stuff they used when I had them put in probably isn't good for you, so why not have them replaced? (Unless you don't have dental insurance or aren't making good moola.)

I actually chewed ice for the first time last year. 'Twas wicked cool and didn't hurt.

that refuses to use them. Eventually, I'd like to get an overhaul and have the old fillings replaced.

possible mercury poisoning from silver amalgam fillings. Mercury in fish products like Tuna and Swordfish is a much larger problem. Coal fired power plants in the US, China and elsewhere are dumping huge amounts of mercury into the oceans and it builds up in the large fish at the top of the food chain. I used to eat a lot of Tuna and am pissed as hell that there's no warning on those little cans.

I believe there is a large genetic component to dental problems, especially gum disease. When I was a kid growing up in the country in the 60's and 70's dental care was rudimentary in my house. No flouride water, no dental floss. My parents never talked about gum disease, just cavities. This lack of education from my parents is surprising since my dad and my grandmother on his side had terrible dental problems. My grandmother lost all her teeth before age 30 and my dad had to go thru that horrible operation where they cut your gums away from the tooth due to periodontal disease. And he was only 33.

and now there is evidence to link gum disease with heart disease and stroke. This is a serious problem. Something to do with bacterial products of gum disease entering the bloodstream and associated inflammation responses in arterial walls. Google it and inform yourselves. I say it is serious because my grandmother died of a stroke at age 66 and my dad had major heart bypass surgery a few years back in his early 60's. Niether smoked or drank a drop. Coincidence?? other factors?? I dont know.

also, dont chew gum. This sounds silly but it is important. Chewing gum is very bad for the bond between the tooth root and the jawbone. The forces on the bond between bone and tooth are incredible during chewing and your teeth need a break to recover between meals. Chewing gum doesnt allow this period for recovery.

Dental floss. do it!! every day. Thanks to my excellent dentist (and hygenist... very important to find a good hygenist!!) I've managed to completely eliminate bleeding from brushing and flossing and some of my pockets have actually diminished. I want to keep my teeth till the end and given my family history this is going to be tough.

use a tongue scraper... I didnt even know there was such a thing until my hygenist turned me on to it. Most bad breath come from food particles and bacteria that sticks to the upper surface of your tongue. Dont believe me?? get one of these little plastic things, scrape your tongue and prepare to be disgusted. I couldnt believe it the first time I used one. Better than trying to brush your tongue. I know this sounds ridiculous but try it.

sorry to get preachy but this is important stuff. Especially in light of continuing research on the link to heart disease..

The idea is that any sensitivity to any of the metals, and there are several in each filling, causes the gums to retract, leading to all kinds of vulnerability. I know just by my own sensitivity to metal, jewelry, and by looking at my teeth, wherever there is a metal crown or filling, that tooth has major gum recession. I am going to try this product, it looks pretty good, as a way of countering the bacteria that leads to gum disease, and work on getting the metal out too.

http://www.oramd.com/receding-gums/cure-gum-receding.htm


kick

My dentist recommended that I have mine replaced, but when I looked into the cost I simply could not afford it. Now I may have to think twice about it for the sake of my health.

I have not let dentists put any amalgam in my mouth for at least the last 10 years, but I do have some old fillings I have not yet replaced. I can't really afford to do the whole thing, as I have a lot of fillings. My mother did her whole mouth, and I know plenty of naturopaths who would advise it. Some dentists will argue with you that amalgam lasts longer than resin composite. If so, find another dentist. After all, they should be putting customer first. I've never found the argument that mercury lasts longer entirely compelling. Plus its an outdated argument, as composites are increasingly plenty sturdy.

.

had it done as blood test showed high levels. Will email to see if any progress (husband has Parkinson's as well and thinking about it)

edited to say.. friend is prominant radiology oncologist.. has cutting edge information to fight Parkinson's and the best neurologists and movement disorder specialist told him fillings need to go.

i believe that all kinds of modern diseases incl parkinsons and cancers and alzheimers and autism etc etc are due to so many chemicals and metals in our world
(i use the word modern loosely as our society has been polluted with metals and other poisons for 100 yrs or more depending on toxin)

and i definitely believe in amalgams playing a key role in some illnesses. as i mention in an above post this stuff is placed in our mouths - right next to our brains - with no warning or information as to what its done to some people over the many years it has been used. and the dental association lobbying like mad (no pun intended) just like all major corporations

its very sad that so many have had to go through such health trauma just to scratch the surface of the truth... thank you again for sharing this
i am interested to hear how this progresses because i think its crucial in many cases but it has to be done properly. unfortunately not every health practitioner who says they handle removal and chelation do it properly

very best wishes

eta: the above health conditions i mention are complicated and serious in their genesis. i do not say that its only because of amalgams etc that people are getting so sick with so many different illnesses. i do believe it is sometimes one of the contributing factors and in some cases it is the trigger. and some people arent affected at all at least not until much later in life. there are many contributing factors and if one gets sick then pollutants likely play some part (along with diet or stress or lifestyle etc)

is usually requested by any neurologist for Parkinson's. Often elevated mercury is present.

This is something I found re autism that was interesting:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,20909-1594016,00.html

for parkinsons
thats quite a development

thanks for the link

Very worth it. The Mercury is highly concentrated and highly toxic. There is plenty of evidence.

How are you doing? Hope you are getting plenty of support, love and care.

:grouphug:

That is a whole other story... did you read my post in Andy's thread about me? I explained it all there. But love and support is solid and that includes my friends at DU, like you:) Thank you:D

such a lovely person, you, is experiencing this. Follow your instincts, get good advice from a number of sources, and take really good care of yourself, you deserve it. There is an enormous power in many people sending good wishes, it has been documented, I see you healthy, and happy. Ask the angels to help you in every way, insist.
:hug:

Am bribing the angels with my erotic stories in exchange for time: miles to go before I sleep:)

Edit, I found the post... #65
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3584768&mesg_id=3590879