is what Lynndie England did worse than blowing children to pieces

with daisy cutters and cluster bombs?

just thought I'd ask.

~~~~~~~~
BTW, this whole fucking war is illegal:

Statement by U.S. Supreme Court Justice Robert L. Jackson
Chief U.S. Prosecutor
at the Nuremberg Tribunals
August 12, 1945
on War Trials Agreement; August 12, 1945

There are some things I would like to say, particularly to the American people, about the agreement we have just signed.
For the first time, four of the most powerful nations have agreed not only upon the principles of liability for war crimes of persecution, but also upon the principle of individual responsibility for the crime of attacking the international peace.

Repeatedly, nations have united in abstract declarations that the launching of aggressive war is illegal. They have condemned it by treaty. But now we have the concrete application of these abstractions in a way which ought to make clear to the world that those who lead their nations into aggressive war face individual accountability for such acts.
<snip>

"We must make clear to the Germans that the wrong for which
their fallen leaders are on trial is not that they lost the
war, but that they started it. And we must not allow
ourselves to be drawn into a trial of the causes of the war,
for our position is that no grievances or policies will
justify resort to aggressive war. It is utterly renounced
and condemned as an instrument of policy."
<snip>

U.S. Supreme Court Justice Robert L. Jackson
Chief U.S. Prosecutor
at the Nuremberg Tribunals
August 12, 1945

READ THE ENTIRE STATEMENT HERE:
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/imt/jack02.htm

Just thought I'd ask.

They're both about the same in my book.
The torturers and murderers can fight it out amongst themselves.

"is what Lynndie England did worse than blowing children to pieces with daisy cutters and cluster bombs"

Perhaps you'd care to enlighten us as to why you feel the need to compare torture to murder.
Or would you rather continue to snark at responders without ever making a point?

I am not trying to start a flame war.

Did you read mine? I agree with you.
But people are allowed to be outraged by torture AND murder by individuals or governments.
It's not an either/or issue for most.
I despise ollie north, but by doing so I don't absolve the administration that was ultimately responsible for those crimes.

I could have worded the question in a better way.
searching...

Such as how do we expect justice to prevail when we put one disturbed person on trial yet order others to bomb people into oblivion?

My mom was a WWII refuge. The horror never goes away for the victims that live.
It actually physically hurts me to see this. I no longer have a tv so that I can have more control over what gets through to me. I am unable to get it out of my head sometimes. It's not healthy but it is the price you pay for feeling.
See my post further down.
You're just fine, really.

I have a few friends who are Vietnam vets one of whom I roomed with about a year after he returned. We spent many late night hours talking and he revealed quite a bit to me, bless him. I've never been able to forget those discussions. Sometimes since the Iraq invasion it all seems to converge in my consciousness.
There will have to be generations of healing ahead of us. We will heal though.

as long for this country to develop a conscience as it did after Mei Lai. I'm not sure it ever did.

because it last much longer... sometimes and sometimes for life :cry:

peace

I am challenging people to think about this whole war as a crime.
England and others are but a small part of a larger picture.
Anyone who has read some of my posts in the past knows I am OUTRAGED over the torture and want some real answers. There are secret prisons we know NOTHING about. 60 Minutes did a story last night on sanctioned sexual tortue at Gitmo.

Congress persons have seen photos much worse than we have seen.
What are they doing about it. Are they guilty of covering up war crimes too?

And then what happened in Fallujah? Who will be held accountable for the use of illegal chemical weapons and napalm.

To put one woman on trial and pretend it has anything to do with justice seems absurd to me.

WAR anymore. which i believe is, with mass killing being close behind. which we all know that it isn't anymore, especially once you cross the torture line, openly, as a society, as being just another part of WAR which we all know we HAVE :cry:

argh, it is all fucked up... please don't take this personal, believe me, i'm with ya :toast:

peace

that didn't make it sound like I was excusing the torture or England.
But I am having a hard time articulating my feeling about the whole thing. I want to see those who leveled Fallujah on trial also.


Something about this trial really disturbed me.
They were going to try to connect her actions to higher ups but it didn't work for those tried before her, so they went for a guilty plea. It's sort of like when the only people they can get the goods on are the lowly mafia thugs while the kingpins stay 'clean'.

I am so sick over this war. I want Rumsfeld and the rest on trial at the Hague.

And it should.
Rumsferatu has said that it was just these few individuals and that he thinks we've spent way too much time investigating this as it is.
They want to punish the grunts and wash their hands of it.
It's up to us to NOT let them.
Your outrage is more than justified. Anyone who isn't outraged has a serious ethical problem and shouldn't be posting on this board, IMO.
There's not a damn thing wrong with you.
:thumbsup:

And created new enemies...

The long-term consequences of her actions could be worse.

those photos have outraged tens of millions of people.
I don't think the rest of the world buys the "few bad apples" story either.

Photos of Iraqis Being Abused by US Personnel
http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/iraqis_tortured/

"OPERATION IRAQI FREEDOM"
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2604.htm

Fallujah Photos
http://dahrjamailiraq.com/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=album28&page=1

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