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Help! "Prayer not in schools" was the cause of Columbine?

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Verve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 02:57 PM
Original message
Help! "Prayer not in schools" was the cause of Columbine?
Edited on Thu May-05-05 02:59 PM by Verve
This is an email I just received from my very liberal friend. (or so I assumed) This evangelical agenda has gotten way out of hand! I'm not sure how to respond to my friend who obviously was suckered into a political ploy to play on people's fears to promote their prayer in schools agenda. Any suggestions on how I should respond?

"DARRELL SCOTT TESTIMONY
Guess our national leaders didn't expect this, hmm? On Thursday, Darrell Scott, the father of Rachel Scott, a victim of the Columbine High School shootings in Littleton, Colorado, was invited to address the House Judiciary Committee's subcommittee What he said to our national leaders during this special session of Congress was painfully truthful. They were not prepared for what he was to say, nor was it received well. It needs to be heard by every parent, every teacher, every politician, every sociologist, every psychologist, and every so-called expert! These courageous words spoken by Darrell Scott are powerful, penetrating, and deeply personal. There is no doubt that God sent this man as a voice crying in the wilderness. The following is a portion of the transcript:

"Since the dawn of creation there has been both good & evil in the hearts of men and women. We all contain the seeds of kindness or the seeds of violence. The death of my wonderful daughter, Rachel Joy Scott, and the deaths of that heroic teacher, and the other eleven children who died must not be in vain. Their blood cries out for answers.

"The first recorded act of violence was when Cain slew his brother Abel out in the field. The villain was not the club he used.. Neither was it the NCA, the National Club Association. The true killer was Cain, and the reason for the murder could only be found in Cain's heart.
"In the days that followed the Columbine tragedy, I was amazed at how quickly fingers began to be pointed at groups such as the NRA. I am not a member of the NRA. I am not a hunter. I do not even own a gun. I am not here to represent or defend the NRA - because I don't believe that they are responsible for my daughter's death. Therefore I do not believe that they need to be defended. If I believed they had anything to do with Rachel's murder I would be their strongest opponent.
I am here today to declare that Columbine was not just a tragedy-it was a spiritual event that should be forcing us to look at where the real blame lies! Much of the blame lies here in this room. Much of the blame lies behind the pointing fingers of the accusers themselves. "I wrote a poem just four nights ago that expresses my feelings best. This was written way before I knew I would be speaking here today:

Your laws ignore our deepest needs,
Your words are empty air.
You've stripped away our heritage,
You've outlawed simple prayer.
Now gunshots fill our classrooms,
And precious children die.
You seek for answers everywhere,
And ask the question "Why?"
You regulate restrictive laws,
Through legislative creed.
And yet you fail to understand,
That God is what we need!


"Men and women are three-part beings. We all consist of body, soul, and spirit. When we refuse to acknowledge a third part of our make-up, we create a void that allows evil, prejudice, and hatred to rush in and reek havoc Spiritual presences were present within our educational systems for most of our nation's history. Many of our major colleges began as theological seminaries. This is a historical fact. What has happened to us as a nation? We have refused to honor God, and in so doing, we open the doors to hatred and violence. And when something as terrible as Columbine's tragedy occurs -- politicians immediately look for a scapegoat such as the NRA. They immediately seek to pass more restrictive laws that contribute to erode away our personal and private liberties. We do not need more restrictive laws. "Eric and Dylan would not have been stopped by metal detectors No amount of gun laws can stop someone who spends months planning this type of massacre. The real vi llain lies within our own hearts.
"As my son Craig lay under that table in the school library and saw his two friends murdered before his very eyes-He did not hesitate to pray in school. I defy any law or politician to deny him that right! I challenge every young person in America, and around the world, to realize that on April 20, 1999, at Columbine High School prayer was brought back to our schools. Do not let the many prayers offered by those students be in vain. Dare to move into the new millennium with a sacred disregard for legislation that violates your God-given right to communicate with Him. To those of you who would point your finger at the NRA - I give to you a sincere challenge. Dare to examine your own heart before casting the first stone!
My daughter's death will not be in vain! The young people of this country will not allow that to happen!"

Do what the media did not - - let the nation hear this man's speech. Please send this out to everyone you can"
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
1. Oh, please!
I thought guns were the cause of the mass murder. I've never known a prayer stopping a bullet.
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
2. Snopes' take on the subject
http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/scott.htm

That Darrell Scott spoke the words attributed to him is fact. However, the opening and closing comments appended to the Internet-circulated version of them are misleading and erroneous....

Darrell Scott didn't say anything to our "national leaders," nor is it true that his testimony was "not received well." Scott was not delivering testimony to a crowded House chamber full of incredulous, unprepared, and shocked Congressmen; he was talking to a few sub-committee members and a stenographer. He was only one of many people who gave testimony to the Subcommittee on Crime, and it's unlikely that most Congressmen heard what he said, or even knew that he had testified. His words certainly didn't prompt outrage from an unreceptive audience, as implied here....

"The media" didn't prevent anyone from hearing Mr. Scott's speech; most news outlets simply didn't give it much coverage because it wasn't particularly newsworthy. As noted above, Mr. Scott really didn't offer much of substance, and what he did have to say had already been said earlier and louder by many others. Also as noted above, Mr. Scott was merely one of many people who gave testimony in front of the House Subcommittee on Crime in the wake of the Littleton shootings. Other parents of shooting victims spoke as well, but you won't find that fact acknowledged here, much less any indication of what they said. Why should their words be any less important than Darrell Scott's? (Perhaps the reason they're not mentioned is because their opinions didn't agree with Mr. Scott's, and therefore didn't agree with the opinions of whoever wrote the prologue and coda to this piece.) In spite of all that, Darrell Scott's speech was reported by the Associated Press and picked up by several big-city newspapers, hardly evidence of a hostile "media" conspiracy to suppress it and thereby prevent the world at large from hearing it.


Snopes is your friend...
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JabbatheHutt Donating Member (33 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
3. I don' t believe it.
Edited on Thu May-05-05 03:04 PM by JabbatheHutt
Klebold and Harris were bipolar wackos. Google "Trenchcoat Mafia"

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doodadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. HEY! As a bipolar wacko myself
your statement is fairly insulting. These two may have been troubled, but that does not necessarily make them manic depressive.

Rather than "no prayer in schools" being the cause of Columbine, I'd think it was more a case of "no parents in home". From what I've read, these boys spent hours alone in their basements, hatching their schemes.
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JabbatheHutt Donating Member (33 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #7
19. Allow me to extend my apologies..
You're right. Yes, they weren't adequately supervised. I live near Littleton, so I know how affluent that area is -- full of ignorant parents who thinks that kids can do fine on their own.
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
4. Unfocused, haphazard screed
And I should know, having typed out one or two myself.

Maybe your friend sent it to you as a joke? It's barely worth the time it takes to hit the "delete" button.
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Verve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. I hope your right
but I'm not sure. She comes from a very strong democratic family and her views have always appeared very liberal to me. However, we met because our children were in Catholic schools together. She took her children out last year and put them into public school because she wanted her girls to grow up without "the guilt" she perceived they were getting with a catholic education.

I just assumed she believed like I did, that religion is a diverse, personal issue that should not be controlled or advanced by the government. I guess I was wrong.

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wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
5. Snopes
http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/scott.htm

Whenever you get this crap, go to Snopes to check it out. In this case, it is true that he gave this speech, but Snopes puts a rather different spin on it.

I, personally, would write back that I'd welcome prayer in schools. I'd suggest Buddhist prayers.
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Verve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. Thanks! I think I'm going to reference snopes as well as all the humor
on this post when I email her back.
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Freedom_from_Chains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
6. Huh, I thought it was because we didn't hang the 10 commandments
in the halls. Learn something new everyday
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JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
8. Prayer in school is not forbidden...
As the old saying goes, it happens before every test.

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JitterbugPerfume Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. and uptight religious fanaticism
Edited on Thu May-05-05 03:23 PM by JitterbugPerfume
has never BEEN THE CAUSE OF VIOLENCE

of course not!!!!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
11. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
isweetpotatol Donating Member (50 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
12. when will this madness stop????
I think it's more likely someone who is forced to pray in school would do columbine than someone who is taught to be their own person
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. Hi isweetpotatol!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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TalkingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
13. What weak, pitiful and pathetic gods Yahweh and son Jesus must be.
I mean, a few little man-made laws have the strength to keep the silent prayers of their true followers from being heard through the brick and mortar of school walls.

If those two were gods worth believing in they would be able to hear the prayers of the faithful; laws or not.

What sad, sad little gods and what sad, sad people who fail to believe in the power of their gods.
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
15. Riddle Me This, Batman
Now, if prayer in school would have "prevented" this massacre, how do these goons explain the kid in Paducah who shot up kids doing a voluntary (sic) "prayer circle" several months before Dylan and Kleibold went nuts.

Also, History Channel just did a great recreation of this event and really goes into the personalities of these monsters. Ya think if they knew there was a prayer meeting going on in the cafateria or some other location they'd pass it by? Me thinks not.
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TheMightyFavog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
16. Rachel Scott....
Isn't she the one the fundies say was the "She said yes" martyr?
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Yep, and witnesses said she begged for her life (as would I) and NEVER...
uttered a word about god or baby jesus or anything like that. It's disgusting that fundy hucksters would stoop to exploiting a young girl's death.
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
17. There's nothing like a good prayer
before you shoot up a school :eyes:
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
21. Jim Jones prayed a lot
and look what happened to the group he hung out with
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
22. Does anyone know whether Colorado EVER had school prayer?
Most Western states didn't.
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goodboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
23. How does this explain Religious terrorism then? Hmm?
Edited on Thu May-05-05 06:02 PM by goodboy
How has the power of prayer stopped religious terrorist attacks?

just askin.
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
24. Klebold and Harris needed help. They never got it.
Edited on Thu May-05-05 06:13 PM by Selatius
I can only guess it was the alienation. I remember being so isolated and alienated when I was in high school that I attempted suicide, but I had a terrible home life at the time as well. These two apparently had a more happy family life, but unlike me, I believe they were bullied and beaten at school because they were considered outcasts. Some of the reports bear this out, but nobody admitted to it. Who would?

Where I turned that frustration and negative energy in at myself, they, for what reasons only God knows, turned it outward.

BTW, this is his slain daughter, Rachel Scott:

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