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What was the Dem's justification for voting for Real ID?

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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 07:30 AM
Original message
What was the Dem's justification for voting for Real ID?
Edited on Wed May-11-05 08:16 AM by paineinthearse
I will dispense with the usual preamble. For discussion on how the Dems caved with relation to the Real ID provision tacked on by conference commitee, see lalarawraw's post in GD.

Before sending the message at the end to my senior Senator, I went to his website to see his rational. I sent a similar message to my junior Senator (there is no similar statement on his website, perhaps the Kerry supporters can provide one???).

http://kennedy.senate.gov/

May 9, 2005

FLOOR STATEMENT BY SENATOR EDWARD M. KENNEDY ON IRAQ SUPPLEMENTAL
(As Prepared for Delivery)

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Laura Capps/Melissa Wagoner (202) 224-2633

Mr. President, I intend to support the Iraq spending bill. Although I disagree strongly with some of the bill's provisions, these funds are clearly needed for our troops. All of us support our troops. We obviously want to do all that we can to see that they have proper equipment, vehicles, and everything else they need to protect their lives as they carry out their missions.

It's scandalous that the Administration has kept sending them into battle in Iraq without proper equipment. No soldier should be sent into battle unprotected. No parents should have to go in desperation to the local Wal-Mart to buy armored plates and mail them to their sons and daughters serving in Iraq.

Our military is performing brilliantly under enormously difficult circumstances and we need to give them our support—not just from our words but our pockets too.

One aspect of this bill that I am particularly proud of is the increased funding for humvees for our troops on patrol in Iraq. The Bayh- Kennedy Amendment adds enough additional funds to keep production at increased levels. Some opponents claimed that the Army already had enough armored humvees, and objected to any further increase.

But a front-page article in the New York Times on April 25th told us the troops' side of the real need for more armor, and the difference it can make. Company E, a Marine Corps unit based at Camp Pendleton, returned from six-months in Ramadi last year, and its members were so frustrated with this problem that they decided to tell their story.

They did not have enough armored vehicles. 13 of the 21 Marines from Company E who were killed in Iraq had been riding in humvees that failed to protect them from bullets or bombs.

They saw problems up close. A year ago, eight of them were killed when their humvee was ambushed on the way to aid another unit under fire. The cargo section of the humvee where the troops were riding didn't even have "hillbilly armor" to protect them from the blast. They were totally unprotected. As one Marine described the attack, "All I saw was sandbags, blood and dead bodies. There was no protection in the back."

Captain Kelly Royer, Company E's unit commander asked his superiors when he would be getting more armored humvees. He was told that the additional armor hadn't been requested, and that there were production constraints. Another Marine says they complained about the shortages "every day, to anybody we could. They told us they were listening, but we didn't see it."

These Marines on the frontline knew the armor meant the difference between life and death -- the difference between an essential mission and a suicide mission. They were desperate to get more armor. Day after day, they saw the brutal consequences of the Pentagon's incompetence and delay.

The "lessons learned" from the war in Iraq are said to help us in future conflicts, but for all forces facing death every day, the future was yesterday.

In fact, the Marines are requesting funds for the coming fiscal year to develop and produce new armored vehicles to avoid these deadly threats.

The need is so clear that the request was submitted under the Marine Corps' Urgent Universal Need Statement, which was created to streamline the acquisition process and get equipment to the field faster. They have a plan to meet the future need -- but what about the urgent need today?

We do not have the luxury of time to wait for these new vehicles to roll off a future assembly line. The need for armored humvees is now. The hillbilly armor they scavenge for and add to their unprotected humvees does not provide adequate protection.

The Army says that of the new requirement approved this month, none of it is designated for the Marine Corps. The Pentagon refuses to make this a top priority. They continue to drag their feet.

In a report to Congress this month, the Government Accountability Office describes month after month after month of mismanagement by the Pentagon in supplying the armored humvees our troops urgently need to carry out their missions and stay alive.

The GAO report found that the Army still has no long term plan to increase the number of armored humvees. The war in Iraq has been going on for two full years. Our troops are under fire every day, and the Pentagon still doesn't have a plan to protect them.

In a briefing prepared by the Marines for Congress, they specifically state in their Vehicle Hardening Strategy that "funding assistance is required to achieve optimum levels of armor protection."

The GAO report clearly points out that the Pentagon's bureaucratic mentality infected its decisions. They tried to solve the problem in a slow and gradual manner, instead of solving it quickly. As the GAO report states, there were two primary causes for the shortages of armored vehicles. "First, a decision was made to pace production, rather than use the maximum available capacity. Second, funding allocations did not keep up with rapidly increasing requirements."

It is equally obvious that in addition to the bureaucratic mentality at the Pentagon, their cakewalk mentality is also a major part of the problem. Week after week, month after month, they refuse to believe that the insurgency would continue. They want to believe it will soon be over. They don't feel they need to waste dollars on armored humvees that soon won't be needed in Iraq. So month after month, our troops keep paying with their lives. The light the Pentagon sees at the end of the tunnel turns out to be the blinding flash of another roadside bomb exploding under another unprotected humvee in Iraq. They can't even get their story right. Armor Holdings -- the company that makes the armored Humvee -- told my office recently that its current contract with the Army will actually mean sharp cutbacks in production. Right now, they produce 550 armored Humvees a month. Their contract reduces that number to 239 in June, zero in July, then back to 40 in August, and 71 in September. The company is now negotiating for slightly higher levels of production in June, July, and August, but it still expects to decrease production to 71 by September. What possible justification can there be for the Pentagon to slow down current production so drastically in the months ahead, when armored humvees are so urgently needed?

The Pentagon keeps saying, "We'll work it out." On nine different occasions, we have asked the Pentagon for their requirements for humvees, and nine times they have been wrong.

This bill tells the Department of Defense we won't let them get it wrong a tenth time. For the sake of our troops, Congress acted, and the Pentagon should not ignore it. The contract should be amended immediately to obtain maximum possible production of armored humvees for the months ahead. Our troops are waiting for our answer, and their lives depend on it.

Another important part of this bill will be the periodic report it requires on the progress our forces are making in Iraq. Our military is performing brilliantly under enormously difficult circumstances. But they don't want -- and the American people don't want --an open-ended commitment. After all the blunders that took us into war, we need to be certain that the President has a strategy for success.

The $5.7 billion in this bill for training Iraqi Security Forces is a key element of a successful strategy to stabilize Iraq and withdraw American forces.

The report will provide the straight answer that we have not had before about how many Iraqi security forces are adequately trained and equipped. We're obviously making progress, but it's far from clear how much. The American people deserve an honest assessment that provides the basic facts.

But that's not what we've been given so far. According to a GAO report in March, "U.S. government agencies do not report reliable data on the extent to which Iraqi security forces are trained and equipped."

The report goes on to say, "The Departments of State and Defense no longer report on the extent to which Iraqi security forces are equipped with their required weapons, vehicles, communications, equipment, and body armor."

It's clear from the Administration's own statements that they're using the notorious "fuzzy math" tactic to avoid an honest appraisal.

On February 4, 2004, Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said, "We have accelerated the training of Iraqi security forces, now more than 200,000 strong."

A year later, on January 19, 2005, Secretary Condoleezza Rice said that "We think the number right now is somewhere over 120,000."

On February 3, 2005, in response to questions from Senator Levin at a Senate Armed Services Committee Hearing, General Richard Myers, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, conceded that only 40,000 Iraqi security forces are actually capable. He said, "48 deployable (battalions) around the country, equals about 40,000, which is the number that can go anywhere and do anything."

Obviously, we need a better accounting of how much progress is being made to train and equip effective Iraqi Security forces.

The President's commitment to keeping American troops in Iraq as long as it takes and not a day longer is not enough for our soldiers and their loved ones. They deserve a clearer indication of what lies ahead, and so do the American people.

I'm encouraged that the Administration is finally being required by this bill to tell Congress how many U.S. troops will be necessary in Iraq through the end of 2006. The American people—and especially our men and women in uniform and their families— deserve to know how much real progress is being made in training Iraqi troops and how long our forces will be in Iraq. Hopefully, the Administration will submit these reports in good faith, and not attempt to classify this vital information.

Another important aspect of the bill is the change in the number of H-2B visas for seasonal workers. The Senate voted 96-4 in favor of an amendment sponsored by Senator Mikulski and myself to provide additional visas for the current year. These visas are a lifeline for small family businesses on Cape Cod and many other firms that rely overwhelmingly on seasonal workers to meet their heavy summer needs. Many use the program year after year, because it is the only way to legally fill temporary and seasonal positions when no American workers are available. Without this amendment, they'll be out of luck this summer, and many will be out of business.

This legislative change is designed to be a short-term solution to the current visa crisis, in anticipation of comprehensive immigration reform to fix the long-term problem. This bill has a two-year fix. It does not raise the cap. It simply exempts returning workers who have played by the rules. Employees who have worked here before and returned to their home country are given the opportunity to return to the US to work another season under the H-2B visa program. Without it, many businesses will be forced to shut their doors.

I appreciate the support of my colleagues on this important issue. We are one step closer to filling the labor needs of so many hard-working small businesses and industries across the country

Unfortunately, not all the immigration provisions included in the bill have this kind of broad support.

Included in the conference agreement are the so-called Real ID immigration provisions that are highly controversial, harmful, and unnecessary. The Intelligence Reform Act we approved overwhelmingly last year provides real border security solutions. The so-called Real ID bill added by the House to this spending bill, contains controversial provisions we rejected last year and likely would have rejected again if we had been given a chance to debate them on the floor of the Senate. They're a false solution on border security, and they serve no purpose except to push an anti-immigrant agenda. More than ever, we need to take the time to get border security reform right, as opposed to pushing through legislation to meet the demands of anti-immigrant extremists. The stakes are simply too great.

In addition to the numerous substantive problems with the Real ID, the process through which they have been forced into this conference report is flawed and unacceptable. The Republican leadership in the House and Senate shut Democrats out of the conference negotiations. Why? Because the House bill has controversial provisions that have questionable support in the Senate and with the American people. Strong-arm tactics are offensive and do a great deal of disservice to the important issues of our time. The White House too, once rejected these provisions, yet, they now support them. What important issues will the White House flip-flop on next?

Those who pushed through these Real ID provisions continue to say that loopholes exist in our immigration and asylum laws that are being exploited by terrorists. They claim these provisions will close them. In fact, they do nothing to improve national security, and leave other big issues unresolved.

They want us to believe that its changes will keep terrorists from being granted asylum. But current immigration laws already bar persons engaged in terrorist activity from asylum. Before they receive asylum, all applicants must also undergo extensive security checks, covering all terrorist and criminal databases at the Department of Homeland Security, the FBI, and the CIA.

Asylum seekers will find no refuge. Battered women and victims of stalking will be forced to divulge their addresses in order to get driver's licenses, potentially endangering their lives. Many Americans will have other problems with their driver's license. All legal requirements, including labor laws, can now be waived to build a wall. For the first time since the Civil War, habeas corpus will be prohibited. The Real ID provisions contain other broad and sweeping changes to laws that go to the core of our national identity.

Each year, countless refugees are forced to leave their countries, fleeing persecution. America has always been a haven for those desperate for such protection. At the very beginning of our history, the refugee Pilgrims seeking religious freedom landed on Plymouth Rock. Ever since, we've welcomed refugees, and it's made us a better nation. Refugees represent the best of American values. They have stood alone, at great personal cost, against hostile governments for fundamental principles like freedom of speech and religion. We have a responsibility to examine our asylum policies carefully, to see that they are fair and just.

But, the Real ID bill tramples this noble tradition and will be devastating for legitimate asylum-seekers fleeing persecution. It will make it more difficult for victims fleeing serious human rights abuses to obtain asylum and safety, and could easily lead to their return to their persecutors.

Another section of conference report contains a provision that would complete the US-Mexico border fence in San Diego. But it goes much farther than that. It gives the Department of Homeland security unprecedented and unchecked authority to waive all legal requirements necessary to build such fences, not only in San Diego, but anywhere else along our 2000 mile border with Mexico and our 4000 mile border with Canada. Building such fences will cost hundreds of millions of dollars, and they still won't stop illegal immigration. What we need are safe and legal avenues for immigrants to come here and work, not more walls.

A major additional problem in the Real ID provisions is that it could result in the deportation even of long-time legal permanent residents, for lawful speech or associations that occurred twenty years ago or more. It raises the burden of proof to nearly impossible levels in numerous cases.

A person who made a donation to a humanitarian organization involved in Tsunami relief could be deported if the organization or any of its affiliates was ever involved in violence. The burden would be on the donor to prove by clear and convincing evidence that he knew nothing about any of these activities. The spouse and children of a legal permanent resident could also be deported too based on such an accusation, because of their relationship to the donor.

The provision could be applied retroactively, so that a permanent resident who had once supported the lawful, nonviolent work of the African National Congress in South Africa, Sinn Fein in Northern Ireland, the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan, or the contras in Nicaragua would be deportable. It would be no defense to show that the only support was for lawful nonviolent activity. It would be no defense to show that the United States itself supported some of these groups.

The driver's license provisions don't make us safer either. Let me explain what these provisions really do. They repeal a section of the Intelligence Reform Act which sets up a process for states and the federal government to work together to establish federal standards for driver's licenses and identification cards. Progress is already being made to implement these important measures, but this bill replaces them with highly problematic and burdensome requirements. The National Conference of State Legislatures says that these provisions are "unworkable, unproven, costly mandates that compel States to enforce federal immigration policy rather than advance the paramount objective of making State-issued identity documents more secure and verifiable."

Indeed, it is a costly unfunded mandate on the states. The CBO estimate on the implementation of the driver's license provisions is $20 million over a 5-year period to reimburse states for complying with the legislation. But, that is not all; the provisions require states to participate in an interstate database that would share information at a cost of $80 million over 3 years.

The driver's license provisions do nothing to address the threat of terrorists or to address legitimate security concerns. It would not have prevented a single 9/11 hijacker from obtaining a driver's license, or a single terrorist from boarding a plane. All 13 hijackers could have obtained licenses or IDs under this proposal, and foreign terrorists can always use their passports to travel.

The result of these restrictive driver's license provisions will be raised insurance rates, higher numbers of fatalities on America's roadways, and an increased black market for false and fraudulent documents. The Real ID actually undercuts the original purpose of traffic safety. It is better to have licensed, insured, and trained drivers on our roads.

By preventing immigrants from obtaining driver's licenses undermines national security by pushing people into the shadows and fueling the black market for fraudulent identification documents.

The Real ID provisions do nothing to combat the threat of terrorists or to deal with legitimate security concerns. They have taken away precious time that could have been used to address genuine pressing issues.

Hundreds of organizations across the political spectrum continue to oppose this legislation. A broad coalition of religious, immigrant, human rights, civil liberties and state groups have expressed their own strong opposition.

In these difficult times for our country, we know that the threat of terrorism has not ended, and we must do all we can to enact genuine measures to stop terrorists before they act, and to see that law enforcement officials have the full support they need. The provisions of the Real ID bill in the conference report today will not improve these efforts. They will not make us safer or prevent terrorism. They are an invitation to gross abuses, and a false solution to national and border security.

The Real ID bill with its controversial provisions should have been considered by the Senate through debate and discussion, not attached to a critical piece of legislation needed by our troops.

I urge the Senate to get serious about immigration reform that will make genuine improvements where they are needed, and not in the piecemeal fashion that is contained in this report.

This bill also provides nearly 12 million dollars to remedy a crisis in off-site judicial security for our federal judges. With this bill, we have taken a small, but necessary step toward increasing security for the distinguished men and women of our country who have been appointed to the courts. In the wake of the recent murders of the husband and mother of Federal Judge Joan Lefkow at her home in Chicago, and the courtroom killings in Atlanta, it is clear we must do more to enhance judicial security. This is a matter of the highest urgency.

The tragic deaths of Judge Lefkow's family demonstrate that judges may be safe inside the walls of our well-guarded courthouses, but they are vulnerable to disgruntled litigants in other places, even in their own homes. In fact, security in the homes of judges has long been a concern for the Judicial Conference, the principal decision-making group for the federal courts. Sadly, three judges had previously been killed at in their homes: Judge John Wood of Texas, in 1979; Judge Richard Daronco of New York, in 1988; and Judge Robert Vance, of Alabama, in 1989.

The vast majority of threats are received from people who are angry with the outcome of a case in court. In the ten years since the first world trade center bombing, the federal judiciary has handled an increasing number of "high threat" matters.

Judge Lefkow was the victim of an act of domestic terrorism stemming from what should have been a routine civil matter. Matthew Hale, the leader of a White Supremacist group known as the World Church of the Creator, was convicted in April 2004 of soliciting an undercover FBI informant to murder Judge Lefkow in retaliation for her ruling against him in a trademark dispute. This example highlights the environment in which our federal judges toil everyday.

The Marshal Service, underfunded and understaffed as they are, struggles to keep up with security needs in this new high-risk age. But there is no reason why our judges continue to remain so vulnerable16 years after Judge Vance was killed in his home. We need to stand up for our independent judiciary. We can do so by providing it with enough funds to make their homes safe.

Mr. President, while this bill is imperfect, it has many important provisions that our soldiers cannot be denied and I urge my colleagues to support it.


Senator Kennedy,

I read your 5/9 statement on the “emergency” war funding / real id bill on your home page, but am perplexed. How can you express concern for insertion of the national id provisions, but vote “yes” for the conference committee report?

The House has a move called a "motion to recommit with instructions" that is often used by the minority.
When faced with a bill they oppose, they file such a motion. It contains language that a committee must adopt in order to make the bill acceptable. Is this move not allowed by Senate rules to send bills back to conference committee?

If this strategy is allowed, why did the Dems roll over and accept the real id provision in the "emergency" war spending bill instead of bending over?

If this strategy is not allowed, I and many other progressives would have supported a NO vote on principle.

Going forward, I would favor either a Senate rule or, better, legislation, that would mandate any legislation or amendment go through full committee review before it can be attached to a bill or otherwise brought to the floor for a vote. No more calling bills directly to the floor as the republicans did at the end of the 108th with the draft bill or in the 109th with the Schiavo case, or attaching "real id" by conference committee.
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 07:37 AM
Response to Original message
1. p.s. to my junior senator
p.s. I would like to talk with you about this Saturday in Lowell, but understand you have other priorities.

"Lowell" is a reference to the fact that he will not be attending the annual party convention.
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slor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 07:45 AM
Response to Original message
2. For what it is worth...
both Durbin and Hillary denounced that the Real ID was combined with the newest 80+ billion spending bill for Iraq. What I get mad about is that they are not pointing out that the rethug did not want protection for soldiers in the new bankruptcy laws, because they wanted a "clean bill", but it is ok to pollute the hell out of the new emergency spending for Iraq. They need to hammer this point and they can show these roach rethugs for what they truly are.
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. "pointing out" is one thing
Voting against it would have shown spine.
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slor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #3
26. Do not get me wrong...
I am NOT defending them, in fact, I believe they should have voted against it, and received the media onslaught, so they could then point out the flaws I listed. The rethugs are clearly overreaching, and will continue to do so, so long as Dems let them get away with this kind of shit. The Dems are dropping the ball BIGTIME, and they are missing the chance to catch that populist wave that is building out here in the real world!
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #2
23. Trust me..
.... that argument is nothing more than a fig leaf excuse.

Important and necessary bills are voted down all the time because of unpalatable riders.

No, this is yet another betrayal in an almost unbroken string of Dem Senatorial betrayals.
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 07:50 AM
Response to Original message
4. http://kerry.senate.gov /
Nothing.
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oscar111 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 08:03 AM
Original message
Malloy: did he claim the dems could have voted against the ID part and for
the overall Spending huge bill?

an epal is telling me malloy condemned ALL the dems in that way.

accurate?
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 07:51 AM
Response to Original message
5. http://boxer.senate.gov/
nothing
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femme.democratique Donating Member (969 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 07:51 AM
Response to Original message
6. They're going to build walls around our borders to keep US IN
not keep immigrants out. After all, they don't want the cannon fodder for the Wars of Iran and Syria to be able to escape. DUH, are ALL of our senators just plain stupid? I don't get it, and I don't care about military appropriations, NOBODY with a conscience should have voted for this bill.

"It gives the Department of Homeland security unprecedented and unchecked authority to waive all legal requirements necessary to build such fences, not only in San Diego, but anywhere else along our 2000 mile border with Mexico and our 4000 mile border with Canada. Building such fences will cost hundreds of millions of dollars, and they still won't stop illegal immigration. What we need are safe and legal avenues for immigrants to come here and work, not more walls."
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 07:52 AM
Response to Original message
7. http://feingold.senate.gov/
nothing
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
8. http://durbin.senate.gov/
nothing
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 07:55 AM
Response to Original message
9. http://clinton.senate.gov/
http://clinton.senate.gov/~clinton/news/2005/2005510B55.html

May 10, 2005

Statement of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton
on the Emergency Supplemental Appropriations
Conference Report and Real ID Act

Washington, DC — The Emergency Supplemental Appropriations bill is supposed to provide funding for the young men and women wearing the uniform of our country who find themselves in harm's way every single hour of every single day. It will command broad bipartisan support and public support, as it should. But, unfortunately, the Senate was handed this bill as a fait accompli with no orderly budget process and no chance of serious, thoughtful debate.

For the third year in a row, we are providing military funding not through the regular budget process where we can discuss needs and provide oversight, but through an emergency process where accountability is thrown out the window. This is particularly alarming given the news today that the Administration has not provided a proper accounting of how funds are being spent in Iraq. It is regrettable that we are making these important, literally life-and-death decisions once again in an emergency supplemental as opposed to the regular budget. That's not the way the budget process, and certainly not the way our democratic process, should work.

I'm also deeply concerned that on an emergency supplemental to fund our troops and provide disaster relief for areas devastated by the tsunami we are being asked to vote on the so-called "Real ID" legislation. Its supporters say it is supposed to make our country safer, but how do we know that? We haven't had any committee hearings or any debate about it in the Senate. I had previously joined with my colleague, Senator Feinstein, on her amendment to prevent immigration proposals from being thrown needlessly into the emergency supplemental, and I am outraged that the Republican leadership in both the House and Senate decided to ignore this reasonable request and put this seriously flawed act into a bill to fund our troops. Emergency legislation designed to provide our troops with the resources they need to fight terrorism on the front lines is not the place for broad, sweeping immigration reform.

I am in total agreement with those who argue that we need to address our immigration challenges and we must also recognize that we are still not doing what we should to fulfill the demands of homeland security. And these issues do go hand-in-hand. If we can't secure our borders, we can't secure our homeland. We need a much tougher, much smarter look at these issues. Instead, we're faced with a piece of legislation, passed by the House, jammed into an emergency supplemental bill and my Republican colleagues are going to claim that we've made America safer. Well, that's a false claim.

We need to make our borders more secure. I've introduced legislation three years in a row to have a Northern Border Coordinator. I've met with both Secretary Ridge and Secretary Chertoff. We don't know who's in charge of the Northern Border. We're not even taking simple steps to rationalize our bureaucracy in Washington and figure out where the holes are and how to plug them.

We must continue our American tradition of welcoming immigrants who follow the rules and are trying to build a better life for their families. That's why I am so troubled by the changes in immigration, environmental and privacy laws included in this bill. I also worry about the consequences likely to occur because of changes in the asylum rules in the Real ID Act. I'm proud of the fact that our country has historically welcomed asylum seekers and refugees. Utica, New York is one of the most welcoming places for refugees in the entire country. But, under these new rules, we'll see whether America remains a welcoming place for those who seek refuge from persecution and violence.

We clearly have to make some tough decisions as a country. We need to ensure that people using fake ids don't cross our borders and jeopardize our homeland security. We must confirm that people who enter our country are who they purport to be. We need a system to apprehend criminals who are here illegally. And we need to develop a much better entry and exit system so that we know who is entering our country and overstaying their visas.

However, a piecemeal attempt to address immigration problems window-dressed as national security is not the solution. We need a thoughtful, reasonable process to address our immigration challenges and make our nation secure. This emergency bill does not provide that opportunity.
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 07:57 AM
Response to Original message
10. http://akaka.senate.gov/
nothing
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 07:59 AM
Response to Original message
11. http://baucus.senate.gov/
nothing
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 08:00 AM
Response to Original message
12. http://bayh.senate.gov/
nothing
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 08:01 AM
Response to Original message
13. http://biden.senate.gov/
nothing
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 08:03 AM
Response to Original message
14. http://bingaman.senate.gov/
nothing
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 08:03 AM
Response to Original message
15. http://byrd.senate.gov/
nothing
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 08:04 AM
Response to Original message
16. http://cantwell.senate.gov/
nothing
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 08:06 AM
Response to Original message
17. http://carper.senate.gov/
nothing
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 08:12 AM
Response to Original message
18. http://conrad.senate.gov/
nothing
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 08:13 AM
Response to Original message
19. http://corzine.senate.gov/
nothing
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 08:15 AM
Response to Original message
20. http://dayton.senate.gov/
nothing
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 08:17 AM
Response to Original message
21. http://dodd.senate.gov/
nothing
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 08:19 AM
Response to Original message
22. http://dorgan.senate.gov/
Nothing.
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 08:23 AM
Response to Original message
24. http://feinstein.senate.gov/
nothing
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second edition Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 08:26 AM
Response to Original message
25. I think there is more to this vote than we are aware of.
Edited on Wed May-11-05 08:28 AM by second edition
To have all of our Dem's vote on this in this way is very unusual. I am going to wait and see what develops.
I have read that some states may refuse to go along with this because of the costs they may have to incur. perhaps, it will also end up in the courts as unconstitutional.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
27. There's nothing like a liitle flagwaving to make them cowards.
$82Bln more to kill people and not one, not even one, would vote against it. Pathetic.
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
28. http://harkin.senate.gov/
nothing
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
29. http://inouye.senate.gov/
nothing
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 08:39 AM
Response to Original message
30. http://johnson.senate.gov/
Nothing.
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
31. http://kohl.senate.gov/
nothing
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
32. http://landrieu.senate.gov/
nothing
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
33. http://lautenberg.senate.gov/
nothing
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
34. http://leahy.senate.gov/
http://leahy.senate.gov/press/200505/051005a.html

U.S. SENATOR PATRICK LEAHY

CONTACT: Office of Senator Leahy, 202-224-4242
VERMONT


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Senate Prepares To OK, Send To President
Appropriations Bill That Includes Leahy Amendment
To Name Iraqi War Victims Fund
For Slain Aid Worker Marla Ruzicka

WASHINGTON (Tuesday, May 10) – The Iraq spending bill that the U.S. Senate is expected to approve and send to the President’s desk late Tuesday includes Sen. Patrick Leahy’s provision that will name the Iraqi war victims program that she helped inspire for Marla Ruzicka, who was killed by a car bomb in Baghdad on April 15.

Leahy (D-Vt.) had offered the amendment, to name the program the "Marla Ruzicka Iraqi War Victims Fund," to the Iraq Supplemental Appropriations Bill. The Senate will approve the final version of the bill Tuesday, and the President is expected to sign it.

The program to be named for her was a collaboration between Ruzicka and Leahy, the ranking member of the Senate Appropriations Committee’s Subcommittee on State, Foreign Operations and Related Programs. Ruzicka visited Leahy in 2003 to propose the initiative. Leahy subsequently negotiated the outlines of the program with the Defense and State Departments and then introduced and won enactment of the legislation that chartered the unprecedented aid program for war victims, first in Afghanistan, and later in Iraq. These programs help the innocent victims of war in both countries in a variety of ways, ranging from medical needs to home and school construction.

Ruzicka devoted her life to facilitating the relief effort by traveling widely through both countries to document the needs of innocent war victims. Nearly $20 million has been used for this effort in Afghanistan and Iraq since enactment of the Leahy measure in 2003, and another $10 million was recently allocated to replenish the fund to continue its work, for a total of nearly $30 million to date.

In remarks Tuesday on the Senate Floor, Leahy said, “Marla felt passionately that part of being an American is to acknowledge those who have suffered and to help their families piece their lives back together. By showing them a compassionate face of America, she not only gave them hope, she also helped overcome some of the anger and resentment towards the United States.

“More than 90 percent of the casualties in World War I were soldiers,” Leahy continued. “That changed in World War II, and since then it is overwhelmingly civilians who suffer the casualties. Yet while rosters are kept of the fallen soldiers, no official record is kept of the civilians. This is wrong. It denies those victims the dignity of being counted, the respect of being honored, and it prevents their families from receiving the help they need.

“Marla forced us to face the consequences of our actions in ways that few others have, and, even more importantly, she made us do something about it,” said Leahy. “That is an achievement of a lifetime.”


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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
35. http://levin.senate.gov/
Nothing.
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
36. http://lieberman.senate.gov/
Nothing.
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
37. http://lincoln.senate.gov/
nothing
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
38. http://mikulski.senate.gov/
nothing
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harpo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 08:54 AM
Response to Original message
39. "support the troops" or get slammed on re-election day
Every single freggin thing they try to pass is somehow tied to supporting the troops because dems FEAR that it will be used against them. The people who are voting aren't voting on our behalf...they are voting with their re-election campaigns in mind.
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 08:55 AM
Response to Original message
40. http://mikulski.senate.gov/
nothing.
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
41. http://murray.senate.gov/
http://murray.senate.gov/news.cfm?id=237380

Murray Statement on Supplemental Aid for Iraq and Afghanistan

For Immediate Release: Tuesday, May 10, 2005

(WASHINGTON, D.C.) – Today U.S. Senator Patty Murray (D-Wash.) voted for the $82 billion supplemental aid bill to fund military operations and reconstruction in Iraq and Afghanistan. The measure passed the full Senate 100-0.

Throughout the budget and supplemental appropriations process, Senator Murray fought to increase funding to care for our nation’s veterans. Murray introduced an amendment to the Supplemental bill to provide for our troops by providing them with health care services and benefits when they return home. Murray’s amendment failed on party-line votes.

Murray today released the following statement on passage of the Supplemental bill:

“As the daughter of a disabled World War II veteran and the representative for hundreds of thousands of Washington state veterans and military families, I support every dollar in this aid bill to help our troops protect themselves and complete their dangerous missions successfully.

In March I traveled to Iraq to meet with troops from Washington state. To a person, each of them was a dedicated professional who was putting duty above their personal well being. They need our support and they deserve every resource that our grateful nation can provide.

However, I remain very concerned that when all of these new veterans come home and need medical care they’re going to be pushed into a VA system that doesn’t have the medical staff, facilities or funding to care for them.

That is why I fought to include funding within the Supplemental to pay for a critical cost of war – the care of our nation’s veterans.

I am extremely disappointed that Republicans in the Senate have decided that funding for veterans’ healthcare is not an emergency and not a priority. By denying the crisis at the VA, they are ignoring our responsibility to fully provide for the men and women who are risking their lives for our freedom. Our veterans, our military and our future recruits deserve better.

I am also concerned about a controversial provision that was added to the Supplemental bill without any debate. The Real ID provision has ramifications for privacy, states’ rights and immigration policy. I am disappointed that it has been rammed through as an attachment to desperately needed funding for our troops.

I am already working with communities and officials across Washington state to help find a way to implement these new requirements. And I will continue to push the Administration to provide the funding necessary to make these changes without piling new burdens onto our already cash-strapped states.

It is unfortunate that at a time when we should be focusing on the needs of our troops and veterans, the majority party is using the Supplemental aid bill as a vehicle to legislate on subjects that have not received the debate and attention they deserve.


But at the end of the day, we cannot afford to fail in our missions abroad. With hundreds of thousands of troops sacrificing everyday in Iraq and Afghanistan, I support this Supplemental bill and I will continue my work to fight for their care as they return home.”

###

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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 09:02 AM
Response to Original message
42. http://billnelson.senate.gov/
nothing
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 09:03 AM
Response to Original message
43. http://bennelson.senate.gov/
nothing
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
44. http://obama.senate.gov/
nothing
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
45. http://pryor.senate.gov/ - Soybean Rust?
http://pryor.senate.gov/newsroom/details.cfm?id=237372&

May 10, 2005
Press Release

Pryor Announces Final Passage of War Spending Bill; Conferees Approve Pryor’s Measures to Combat Soybean Rust, Assist Camp Robinson, Protect C-130J Contracts

WASHINGTON D.C. – Senator Mark Pryor today applauded final passage of the 2005 Emergency Supplemental Bill, which includes $75.9 billion for troops and reconstruction in Iraq and Afghanistan and $907 million for tsunami-related expenses. The President is expected to sign the bill in the next few days.

Several of Pryor’s amendments were also included in the final bill, including directions for the Department of Agriculture to help farmers combat the spread of Asian Soybean Rust, a land-exchange agreement for Camp Robinson, and a provision to ensure the C-130J contracts continue without interruption this year.

Soybean Rust

Pryor said he successfully inserted language into the emergency spending package that directs the Department of Agriculture to initiate “an immediate and strong response” to meet the threat of Asian Soybean Rust. The language urges “the Secretary to utilize funding from available sources, including contingency and CCC resources, to concentrate research, outreach, and regulatory activities in those areas where Asian Soybean Rust has been identified and where the greatest risk for disease expansion is evident.”

Pryor is concerned Asian Soybean Rust, a windborne fungus, will return to Arkansas during the current planting season, and is seeking $715,000 in emergency funds for the University of Arkansas’ Division of Agriculture to use for immediate detection, training and education efforts in the state. He said the Arkansas Cooperative Extension Service now estimates that at least 50% of our state’s acreage will be sprayed twice if the fungus is found in the state in May or June, which could run well-over $100 million if all of Arkansas’ producers participate.

“This particularly dangerous fungus has the ability to infect our state’s entire crop in a matter of days. If left untreated, it could infect the rest of the nation’s soybean crop within a single season,” Pryor said. “The language inserted in this bill is only half the battle for our farmers, but it provides much-needed leverage in getting the USDA to be more aggressive in fighting this disease and assisting our farmers. Senator Thad Cochran worked with me to get this measure passed, and I am appreciative of his support and assistance.”

Camp Robinson

Congress also passed Pryor’s amendment authorizing Camp Robinson and a private developer to swap land allowing Camp Robinson the property it needs to construct an aviation support facility and maintain a clear and safe flight path for landing. In return, the landowner would receive 325 acres east of Camp Robinson that is of no military value. Pryor said the landowner agreed to exchange his land for other lands on the east side of Camp Robinson four years ago, but a 1950 statute specific to Camp Robinson blocked the transaction, stating that land no longer needed for military purposes reverts to federal ownership. Pryor’s amendment releases the 325 acres in question and allows the land-swap to move forward.

“Moving forward with this land exchange is a safety, security and readiness issue,” Pryor said. “I’m pleased Congress understood the immediacy of this land exchange to Camp Robinson, the community and to national security and approved my amendment without delay.”

C-130J

Pryor said Congress also adopted a provision he and Senator Saxby Chambliss (R-GA) introduced to ensure contracts for the C-130J continue without interruption this year. Pryor said he has strongly opposed efforts by the Bush Administration to terminate the C-130J program because of the vital role they play in our national defense. He added that the C-130Js are critical for the Air Force to meet its future tactical requirements and complete missions safely and successfully. Pryor commended the Little Rock Air Force Base, the premiere training facility for the J model, for its superior efforts training soldiers from across the nation about the vast capabilities of the C-130J.

“Halting production of the C130J model would not only deny our soldiers the cutting-edge technology they need on today’s battlefield, but it would leave the Air Force and Marine Corps with an aging and far less capable tactical airlift,” Pryor said. “Our amendment gives the President at least one year to reconsider the impact his decision would have on our military operations and readiness.”

--30--


###
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
46. http://reed.senate.gov/
http://reed.senate.gov/speeches/floorstatementrealid.htm

Speech to the United States Senate on the REAL ID Act
Tuesday, May 10, 2005


The Emergency Supplemental bill we are considering today provides needed funding for our men and women in uniform who are engaged in combat operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, as well as emergency assistance for the victims of the Tsunami. This is aid and assistance cannot wait because it is a demonstration of our nation's good will towards those who have been devastated by natural disasters, and also our commitment to our soldiers in combat.

These noble goals are unfortunately tainted by the decision of the Republican leadership to include a controversial piece of legislation known as the REAL ID Act, in this must pass legislation.

This kind of backdoor legislating is symptomatic of the Majority's near total disregard for the precedents and procedures of the Senate that have served our nation so well for so long. I hope that the American people realize that this maneuver is yet another example of the Majority's desire to pass the most controversial legislation by sliding it into a bill which cannot be amended and is subject to only an up-or-down vote.

With no Senate debate and very little review, the REAL ID Act makes significant and harmful changes to our nation's immigration system as well as our system of driver licensing. Like many, I believe that immigration is an issue we cannot and should not ignore. However, the REAL ID Act is not the comprehensive immigration reform that we have gone far too long without. Instead, it vastly alters our nation's established asylum procedure, placing the burden of proof on the applicant by requiring them to document their torture or persecution. Potential asylum seekers are already thoroughly investigated, and those suspected of engaging in terrorist activities are already prohibited from being granted asylum under our current system. Yet, the REAL ID Act will make it increasingly difficult for those escaping political persecution and torture to seek refuge.

In addition, the REAL ID Act would suspend habeas corpus review of orders of removal for aliens in the United States. Essentially, this change eliminates the right of an alien facing deportation to ask a court to review their deportation, a right which the Supreme Court has already upheld. This provision will prevent an innocently detained alien the opportunity to plea his case before a judge. This goes against a core principle upon which our nation was founded.

It is unfortunate that these unsound provisions will be enacted as part of this bill. It is my hope that in the very near future, we will be able to have a national discussion on immigration in a comprehensive, thoughtful, and deliberate way that will provide real solutions to real problems. It is not possible to solve our immigration problems by simply removing those who seek legitimate help from our nation, or by raising the bar for those who are immigrating here legally. As a nation of immigrants and a global leader on human rights, the inclusion of the REAL ID Act in this bill and in this manner is unacceptable, and I will work with like-minded colleagues to reverse this law.

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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
47. http://reid.senate.gov/
nothing
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
48. http://rockefeller.senate.gov/
nothing
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
49. http://salazar.senate.gov/
Edited on Wed May-11-05 09:18 AM by paineinthearse
SEN. SALAZAR'S STATEMENT REGARDING IRAQ SUPPLEMENTAL


Contact: Cody Wertz/ 202-224-5852

05/10/2005- Senator Ken Salazar Regarding the Iraq Supplemental May 10, 2005 I rise in support of the Conference Report related to HR 1268. I support it because it is a symbol of our compact with our troops and their families. I support it because it sends a signal to other emerging democracies. And I support it despite some baffling decisions taken in the Conference Committee to strike key proposals to support our troops and their families.

I. Fundamental Obligation To Out Troops and Their Families Insurgent attacks in Iraq are on the rise: there were 45 per day in March, 60 per day in April, and the rate of attacks this month is topping that. While down from the highs of the pre-election violence, this spike does not suggest a weakened or retreating insurgency. Instead, it suggests with even greater urgency the need for even great support for our troops. Last month, the Washington Post quoted an unnamed American official in our Embassy in Baghdad as saying, “My strong sense is that a lot of the political momentum that was generated out of the successful election, which was sort of like a punch in the gut to the insurgents, has worn off.” And in Colorado, we have seen Army units mobilizing for their second and third tours in Iraq. This, Mr. President, nearly two full years after we were assured that the mission there had been accomplished. So, it is past time that we get this assistance to our troops and their families. The bill includes $75.9 billion for the Department of Defense and an additional $450 million for increased Border Security. Those efforts cannot wait any longer. After having been needlessly delayed by the inclusion of extraneous measures in the House of Representatives, we need to put these investments to work.

II. Emerging Democracies Beyond Iraq And we need to put these resources to work beyond Iraq. We have already seen, as North Korea dramatically increases its nuclear capability, the impact of the Administration’s focus on Iraq. That is why it is so important that the Conference Report includes the $5 million down payment on America’s investment in a strong, independent and democratic Lebanon free from the interference of Syria. We all remember the courageous protests in the streets of Beirut earlier this year. Yet despite this brave show of support for freedom, the President’s supplemental included no funding for strengthening democracy in Lebanon – none. That would have been a missed opportunity, and I am glad the Conference Committee kept this funding in the Conference report. At the same time, Mr. President, we need to ensure that the enormous investments our taxpayers are making in this bill are invested carefully. We are all painfully familiar with the reports from Iraq of security personnel that received training, only to turn and run when confronted with insurgents. Or even the instances where personnel we paid to train turned their weapons on our troops. That is why I am so pleased that the Conference report includes the amendment I included during our debate here in the Senate regarding the hundreds of millions of dollars we are investing in Afghan security forces. Like our successful efforts to invest increased resources in Colorado’s police officers when I was our state’s attorney general, my amendment simply says that we are prepared to pay to train Afghan forces, provided they are prepared to accept greater accountability and standards of excellence. That is the least the American people should expect.

III. Inadequacies in the Conference Report As a new member of this Senate, Mr. President, I have to express my surprise and disappointment at the partisan nature of the Conference Committee itself. Unfortunately, it appears that this is becoming standard operating procedure here in the Congress. That is a shame, because the rest of the country does not see supporting our troops as a partisan issue. And it seems to me that in a time of war, we can do better than a Conference Committee that meets purely on partisan lines; better than a conference that cuts out proposals that passed this Chamber with overwhelming majorities; and better than a conference that inserts a proposal to overturn decades of American asylum policy – policy that protects the world’s most vulnerable people – even though a Senate Committee has never reviewed the policy. This Conference Report provides an increase in the Fallen Hero Compensation to $100,000 for all combat-related deaths, similar to language proposed by the Senate Committee. Regrettably, it omits the Kerry amendment, which I cosponsored and which was adopted by an overwhelming bipartisan majority in this body. It would have assured all the families of those in the military who have died since 9/11 would be eligible to receive a $100,000 in Fallen Hero Compensation. Similarly, just as insurgent attacks begin to spike, this Conference report also omits additional funding for up-armored Humvees, overwhelmingly passed in the form of an amendment by Senator Bayh. And as we see more and more reservists and guardsmen and women deployed, the Conference Report omits protections for these patriots and their families. The amendment would have ensured that federal employees who have been activated in the Guard or reserves do not suffer any loss in salary as a result of their willingness to take on this patriotic assignment. I do not understand why the Conference deleted the payment protections afforded these families by the Durbin amendment. And as we see more and more reservists and guardsmen and women deployed, the Conference Report omits protections for these patriots and their families. I do not understand why the Conference deleted the payment protections afforded these families by the Durbin amendment.

And while the Conference Committee could not protect these important provisions for our troops and their families, the Conference did find time to include within this wartime supplemental a huge proposal that has never received a hearing in the Senate. I will say this about the so-called REAL ID Act included in this bill: it does nothing to address the calls of many Coloradans for serious border strengthening. It will not reduce the flow of undocumented immigrants who come to the United States. Instead, it will heap an unfunded mandate on the states – passing onto the states our duty to protect our borders – at the same time as it denies protection to refugees who come to this country seeking freedom from religious and political persecution. And let’s be clear what those protections are for: they are for the world’s most vulnerable people who come to this country seeking freedom and safety from persecution. They include Christians fleeing persecution in Egypt, democracy activists fleeing violence in West Africa, and women fleeing abuse in Somalia.

Mr. President, it is past time that we get this funding to our troops. It has been delayed long enough. I intend to vote for it, and I hope my colleagues will do the same.

# # #
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
50. http://sarbanes.senate.gov/
nothing
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
51. http://schumer.senate.gov/
nothing
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
52. http://stabenow.senate.gov/
nothing
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
53. http://wyden.senate.gov/
nothing
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
54. Is that list of urls above the list of Dems who voted in favor?
Or do you have a list?

NGU.


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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #54
55. ALL dems voted in favor
The URL's were posted as I went to each and every one to see if they had statements justifying their vote for REAL ID.
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