Can you hear me now? Good!

For the past fifteen years, myself and my fellow "wacko" leftists have been screaming about the perils, and reality, of the two party/same corporate master system of government that we currently live under. We have had our fears and facts dismissed and labeled as "extremist", "crazy", "delusional" and worse. And yet here we are, with the Democrats backing such fine Republican power grabs as the Patriot Act, Real ID, the Iraq war, and an ever increasing flood of legislation designed to makeover this country as a police state, and the citizens as serfs.

Can you hear me now?

I logged on this morning to find a flood of posts lamenting the passage of the Real ID, posters who are shocked and disheartened at this latest betrayal by our so called leaders, and are wondering how we came to this pass. And while I too am disgusted at this latest blow, I can't say that I'm surprised. While many people here and elsewhere have gone deeper into a state of denial over the past few years, it seems that finally people are waking up and realize what is really happening in our country, that we've have had the good cop/bad cop shuck and jive played on us for a long while, and we have been played like a fiddle. Now these newly awakened, newly outraged people are wondering what we can do.

Good!

Here is what we must do if we're going to take our country back:

First, make a solemn vow to never, ever vote for any candidate that takes corporate money. Yes, that leaves you with substantially fewer choices, but there are good choices out there. In the last election cycle, only Kucinich and Cobb of the Greens didn't take corporate cash, and both of them would have made a fine President. Apply this principle across the board, from local to state to national elections, and the message will get heard pretty quick.

Second, work like hell for publicly financed election campaigns in your state. These are desperately needed tools that will allow the public to have a wide range of candidates that are untainted by corporate cash. Currently two states have publicly financed election campaigns, Arizona and Maine. Twenty two other states can have this enacted via the initiative petition, the rest will have to have it pushed through their legislature. If we can get the ball rolling on this, especially by getting those twenty two states to enact this, we will reach a critical mass of public opinion and policy that will force other states to adapt similar measures.

Third, make instant runoff voting a reality. This will allow full participation of third party candidates in our election system. Many of those third parties, like the Greens, have made it a policy to not accept corporate cash. Enacting instant runoff voting will help level the playing field for these folks, and bring about a better democracy for all of us.

If we wish to retain an honest political process, enacting these measures is a priority. Otherwise we're just going to be subjected to more of the same 'ol, same 'ol, pious political mouthings by our so-called leader while they are selling us down the river. Our current political process has made money more important than votes in any given election, from dogcatcher to President. Unless we reassert the prominentcy of the people in our political process soon, government of the people, by the people and for the people will become polite mouthings made by bought and paid for corporate politicians.

The problem with our political system is now laid bare for all to see. The solution is also quite clear. It is now up to us to bring it about now, before it is too late.

a vote for Nader was a vote for Bush in 2000....

I'm not trying to re-ignite the Nader flame wars here, OK, that can be spared out on another thread, another day. Point one is the only option we have until the other two are enacted nation-wide. And yes, as I pointed out there are Democratic candidates out there who don't take corporate cash, vote for them. Kucinich is a great example, and given the ABB atmosphere amongst the Dems in '04, he would have done as well, if not better than Kerry in the election.

But simply continuing the same ol' cycle isn't going to get us anything more than what we have right now, Democrats enacting the wishes of their corporate masters, and the rest of us left out in the cold.

If you have a better answer, please share. If you're trying to obfuscate the matter by goading the old flame wars, please stop.

Knee jerk reaction and all, I'm sorry. Your example is a good one, I'm just used to him being used as an attack instead. Sorry.

IRV is critical...

But it still won't matter if these machines are everywhere.

Machine reform isn't going to happen until the politicians make it a priority. The politicians are going to make it a priority unless they have no vested monetary interest in it. Thus, we need honest politicians first in order to stop the machines.

It's a hard row to hoe, I agree, but we've got to start now, otherwise it will be too late, and all we'll be able to do is say "I told you so".

enough to do something. I fear it will be too late.

But then we're members of your club, "extremist", "crazy", "delusional" and worse.

But I actually think that we are reaching a critical mass, with enough people waking up and smelling the shit we're sinking into. Hopefully this rude awakening will goad them into action. As I said, this is going to have to be done on a state by state basis. I'm working in my state for publicly financed elections, let's hope others will start working in theirs.

Damned if you guys weren't right all along!

I just want my country back. Sad that it has had to come to this pass to start waking people up.

In order to get elected and stay elected the politicians have to raise money. In order to raise money, they have to appeal to the people who have money. The people who have money are the ones least likely to give a rip about the needs of people or ideals, principles, or ethics, because their goal is to make more money.

Ergo, the politicians most likely to be elected are the very ones who will abandon or bend whatever principles they may have to get the money.

All of this reduces "democracy" to a slogan to be used by politicians to justify their behavior.

I am in total agreement with your post.

I envision something along the lines of the British system, each candidate has X amount of money to run on, the media gives out X amount of broadcast time or column inches to political advertisements, and the election campaigns can only run for X number of months.

I agree with the Catch 22 you mentioned, and it is killing us. I see publicly financed elections as the only way out of it.

There are solutions to these problems... we just have to find and work for them.

This year, in the fall

We must have this discussion and soon. We also have to deal with the voting machines. A LOT of work but work that must be done. Nothing will ever get better for the people until we get the corporations out of the process.

United Corporate States.

It really amazes me how little we humans learn from our history. Like how the worst regimes come about because of that unholy alliance of corporate money and political power.

And like I stated earlier, the only way we're going to deal with crooked voting machines is by having honest politicians. And the only way to have honest politicians is to take money out of the election process.

Doing so would also allow our leadership a lot more time to devote to something other than raising cash. I remember an article from Mother Jones, about a dozen years ago, and the statement was that the average Senator or Represenative spent at least half their working day dialing for dollars, more if it was actually an election year.

Learning history has been devalued for so long that I would wager that most people have no clue and could care less anyway. I mean it is ancient, right? My kids learned less in their AP History classes than I learned 30 years ago in regular History class. Only people who are actually interested have any clue at all. I have been railing about this for years watching what they called Education presented to my boys. It isn't the fault of the teachers. I fault the powers that be who actually benefit from a stupid populace and parents who are too lazy or just plain uninvolved and now just uneducated themselves.

People who care educate themselves these days because the teachers are handcuffed by the system. So here we are.

In fact they've been decreasing for seventy years now. My mom, 75 yrs old, tell me that algerbra was first taught in sixth grade. Back then, due to family poverty, farm work, etc., a lot of people didn't go beyond the eighth grade, thus the schools crammed in as much as possible in those years.

In the seventies, I didn't hit algerbra until ninth grade, and I was on an advanced curriculum/college prep track. About ten years ago, I went and took a College Algerbra class for a brush up, and all it consisted of was instructions on how to punch the equation into a calculator, and let the machine do the heavy lifting:eyes:

This type of dumbing down is across all subjects. My wife teaches at a college and is extremely frustrated watching her students coming in every year, each a little less educated than the year before. It really is sad, and I don't understand why we're persuing this course. It simply is illogcal, and doesn't serve the interests of the student, parents or our nation as a whole.

I Know! I KNOW! My hand is raised but I am a girl so will you call on me anyway? LOL

It doesn't matter if it benefits the student, the parents or the nation. It only matters if the powerful ones can continue to pull the wool over the eyes of the public and get away with the things they are getting away with. Thankfully there are enough of us out there who had an interest anyway to know what is happening but I am beginning to wonder if there are enough people who actually care to listen. It just may be that it would just be too hard for them to hear or do anything about. Really, who needs this? I certainly would rather not have to worry about this stuff, we all would, but there it is.

Sorry if I took the attention away from your original intent. I have to leave so I hope this thread is still up when I get back. This is important.

I think instead of IRV we should have proportional representation, but that's details... you're spot on.

Only one thing... if everyone just stops voting, won't the incumbents just keep screwing us royally?

I'm saying that you should only vote for candidates that don't take corporate cash. Kucinich was the only Democratic presidential who didn't take corporate cash last year. The Greens never take corporate cash. There are other candidates, especially local ones who also don't take corporate cash.

The next step on that is to make it known far and wide that you won't vote for corporate candidates, perhaps a national organization would help in such publicity.

If such a movement becomes national, and well known, you will start seeing more and more candidates forego the corporate cash.

:blush: