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Jack The Tab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 01:37 PM
Original message
So I can fly a plane into restricted airspace, evacuating the SENATE...
and Congress and the White House, F-16 Fighter jets have to be scrambled and put up, I can cause a citywide panic (however shortlived)....

and then be let go. No fine levied. No criminal charges.

It is wonderful to be a Republican.
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fryguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. i don't think the pilot was let go because he was a republican
but then i don't wear :tinfoilhat: when reading every news report

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rfranklin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 01:42 PM
Original message
Wasn't it Cheney and Frist flying that Cessna?
I thought I saw their faces...
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Jack The Tab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Perhaps you should...he campaigned for GWB last election..
check it out...

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fryguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. well then THAT proves it
because anyone who any association with the campaign is immediately suspect in any action they do.

:sarcasm:
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. No.
Democrats have been systematically detained and arrested and fined for doing such innocuous things as attend a town hall meeting where the little shit spewed.

This was some pretty serious disruption to the federal government. Do you honestly think they would have been released so quickly without even a fine if they had Kerry stickers on the Cessna?
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fryguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. democrats have been turned away from "town hall" meetings
haven't heard of any being detained or arrested.

and besides, here the pilot WAS detained and then released without criminal charge after an investigation. he still faces the likelihood of FAA reprimand, suspension of his license, and a fine.

there are two to three "air space violations" per day. my feeling is that if you want to find a conspiracy at work here it is in the reaction to this particular flight - e.g. evacuating the Capitol and WH - not in that the pilots weren't arrested or slapped with criminal charges, since all those other pilots (not all of them GOP) who violate the airspace, don't cause the same level of panic.

but again, i try an refrain from wearing the :tinfoilhat: - so believe what you like.
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #20
32. Fallen Soldier's Mom Arrested At First Lady's Rally
Edited on Thu May-12-05 04:26 PM by FLDem5
http://kyw.com/Local%20News/wcbskyw_story_260122359.html

here's one that took me all of 5 seconds to find. Need more?
Wear a t-shirt and open your mouth - arrested
cause fighter jets to scramble and evacuate the FUCKING NATION'S CAPITAL - let go after minor detention for questioning. Get a clue.
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fryguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. self delete
Edited on Thu May-12-05 06:04 PM by fryguy
chosing to cease this pointless debate . . . . enjoy your :tinfoilhat: everyone . . .

ps: it was the Capitol that was evacuated, not the capital - just to set the record straight . . .
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. Hey fryguy. Where would this fellow be right now if his name was Mohammad?
You think he would have got the same deal as this Bush supporter?

Don

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fryguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. what if his name was Mohammad AND he was a Bush supporter?
under your theory, would he be persecuted or let go?

:tinfoilhat: :silly: :tinfoilhat: :silly: :tinfoilhat: :silly: :tinfoilhat: :silly: :tinfoilhat: :silly:
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. I can understand why you won't answer my question
:hide:
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fryguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #18
25. its an asinine question
Edited on Thu May-12-05 02:43 PM by fryguy
I don't think the pilot received any sort of "deal" because he was a Bush supporter.

Yes. Had he been named Mohammad, he would likely have been detained for a longer period of time. But this would be regardless of whether he supported Bush, Kerry, or Yosemite Sam in the election. Unfortunately there is a bias against Muslims. This is unfair, but its what happens now - just pointing it out and not defending it.

So had the person flying it been named Mohammad the investigation would probably still be going on based on his name but not because the person didn't support Bush.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. You made an asinine assumption
I never suggested he was let go because he was a Bush supporter. I only stipulated that he was one. Shouldn't let your imagination get the best of you like that. It tends to make you appear foolish.

Don

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fryguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. foolish
is not recognizing that the OP in essence, if not in fact, argued that the pilot was released because he was a GOP supporter. my original response disagreed with that. your "question" then followed those with the comment drawing the issue of religion into it by asking whether a person named Mohammad "would have got the same deal as this Bush supporter." if the "deal" you referred to was not that he was let go entirely or more quickly because he was a bush support, than you ought to compose your thoughts with greater clarity - because that is precisely what was being discussed and such an assumption was a perfectly logical one given the context . . .
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fryguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #18
26. how about you answer mine now
:shrug:
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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
30. Your right - not because he was republican
he was let go because he was part of the Black op ....


Training the congress on who's REALLY in charge
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
3. He may still face fines/charges from the FAA
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
4. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. Show me proof of a fine and suspension.
I just heard on the radio an hour ago that the pilot WAS NOT FINED.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Deleted message
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Yep white guys got lost and did something just like running a
red light. Oopsy, is that the Washington Monument I see ahead? Since I'm a pilot, I didn't know anything about restricted airspace. Duuuh.

Do you have any idea how many citizens of Arabic ancestry have been detained in America for doing nothing more than sending money to their families in Iran or other ME countries?

Like you said...it happened less than 24 hours ago and I bet Biff and Jethro are on a train back home.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. Deleted message
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. Hey Ripley!
I think (!) that the POLICE are not going to file charges so no fine or anything. That doesn't preclude the FAA from dropping the hammer on him though. The D.C. police merely are allowing, IMO, another agency to have full jurisdiction.

Quite frankly i will be absolutely shocked if this guy gets off with no fine. The FAA doesn't care who he campaigned for and HSD isn't likely to take this lying down either.

If the FAA lets him slide, then i'm on board with you. But, i'll wait the final outcome.
The Professor
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Okay.
But damnit, I've seen old ladies handcuffed for holding up anti-Smirk signs when dumbass drove by in a limo.

And these guys DID THIS and might, MIGHT get a slappy-poo? I think they should do some serious jail time.

Yes, it was an absurd over-reaction to what appears to be just a pilot being stupid. Pulling Nancy Pelosi out of her shoes. Puhleeze.

But if we're supposed to take this homeland security shit seriously and evacuate our government, they should pay for their idiocy.

:hi:
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. No Argument
Depends on how hard the slap is, though. A pilot losing his license for 3 years and a $10k fine for a guy who flies a little Cessna is a pretty hard slap. And, it's not impossible that he gets just such a slap. Patience, friend.

Many of those little old ladies to whom you refer ended up with all charges dropped. Embarassing, yes. Unnecessary, yes. But, in the end, no legal harm done. In this case, the harm after the fact might be far worse than the immediate result.
The Professor
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Patience? What's that?
Sorry, I have none today.

One things for sure...I bet they pissed their pants when that F16 shot flares at them!
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. I Know I Would Have
Of course, since i don't know how to fly, my pants would have been soiled when the motor kicked in and the plane started moving, since i wouldn't even know how to shut it off.
The Professor
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lectrobyte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
5. Did they ever file charges on the
Edited on Thu May-12-05 01:52 PM by lectrobyte
runaway bride? Seems like evacauating the gov't is a way bigger deal than that wild goose chase.
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
6. Wonderful, I wonder, but not being held accountable: priceless
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DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
8. If that Cessna had tinted windows, spinners on the wheels
and some extra chrome the pilots would have been slammed in jail - no due process - life sentence.


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dbeach Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
9. Rover just trying to scare the folks into keeping the chimp pledge..


vote for chimps agendas or we will buzz ya out of office..

nothing happens in DC by accident..
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holboz Donating Member (641 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
28. These guys definitely had friends in high places...
Edited on Thu May-12-05 03:09 PM by holboz
I just can't believe there isn't going to be a fine posed. My husband is a pilot and flies various Cessnas so I had to ask him what is thoughts were about it. Either the pilot was a complete idiot or he IS an arrogant Repug with connections so he figured he could get away with it.

But I think the more likely scenario is that the pilot fell asleep and let the student do the driving for a while. That happened several times when my husband was training for his license. Um, only my husband managed to stay well clear of the nuclear power plant and the air force base.


On a side note, I think my husband said if a pilot decides to fly using VFR (visual flight rules) that he doesn't have to file a flight plan before take-off. I'll have to ask him about that. But if that's the case then we're leaving ourselves quite vulnerable to another attack. A small engine Cessna may not do much damage on its own but imagine if it crashed with some dangerous cargo on board.


EDIT: for grammar
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Rob Conn Donating Member (136 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
29. A little casual journalism suggesting a hoax
5/12/05

9/11 fact seekers are chuckling privately amongst themselves this week about the media coverage of the wayward Cessna that violated D.C. airspace on Wednesday. It would appear that the event has provided a timely opportunity for the Bush administration to counter a rising tide of media and public criticism regarding serious flaws in our national security that have not been adequately addressed since 9/11. For many who follow the administration closely, these perfectly timed PR events are far too frequent to be viewed any longer as merely coincidence.

The plane left Smoketown, PA in the afternoon with a pilot and trainee on a straight flight path heading directly over D.C. on their way to an air show in Luberton, NC. Every pilot in the North East knows you can't fly over D.C, especially a flight instructor. Before they entered restricted airspace, the military attempted to contact them, however their radio was 'not operating properly'. Later they shot flares at them to redirect their path, but that was also unsuccessful. So the jets were scrambled.

"Two F-16 fighter jets joined by a Blackhawk helicopter and a Citation jet from the Department of Homeland Security, confronted the private plane in time to shoot it down..." - L.A. Times, John Hendren, 5/11/05

Before it reached the Capitol, that is. The pilot later claimed to have been flying intentionally without navigation instruments, and that they became lost, despite having been traveling in their intended direction upon interception. The story doesn't hold water. Sounds a little too much like the type of gross incompetence used as an excuse for the failures on 9/11.

The response of our military appears to have been swift and effective. Very much as it had been on many previous occasions. With one clear exception. The military was able to ground the plane in Maryland, but not before they had started a full evacuation of government buildings in the Capitol. Evidently the bunch haven't had too many terror drills, because some of our legislators panicked, and went running wildly through the streets. Most news stories of the event make it clear that we intercepted the plane before it became a real threat to the Capitol. Most also make it clear that there were four aircraft deployed to handle one Cessna. Personally, I figure the Blackhawk could handle the situation by itself, and probably should have. The jets fly too fast to make good visual contact, which is the first priority in such an interception. Instead we hear news stories of an overwhelming response, and successful application of safety procedures. So the pilots lied, the military response was dramatic, and the story comes right on the heels of several news stories in the past couple weeks about the inadequacy of our "Homeland" defenses. We might ask ourselves if this is all just a coincidence. And we might also think we have the most probable answer to that question. Lets consider what is likely a related example.

The capture of Saddam Hussein has turned out to be as much a hoax as the rescue of Jessica Lynch. Both were produced by a secret Hollywood production team working closely with administration PR firms. Its like watching 'reality' warfare. Every fact is manicured for our reception.

"Sergeant Nadim Abou Rabeh, who participated in the operation that netted Saddam, was quoted in the Saudi newspaper "Al-Medina" saying that the Iraqi leader was actually captured the day before and that "the public version of his capture was fabricated." The entire event was apparently choreographed by a Pentagon public relations team." - Counterpunch.org, Mike Whitney, 3/11/05

It turns out that he's not telling the whole story either. A few sources turned up suggesting that the Kurds had captured him, and that our military had taken him from the Kurds, and then taken credit by producing yet another 'dramatic re-enactment' of events. The Kurds were vocally pissed for a couple of weeks, but no one ran the stories, and they were intimidated by someone(?) to cease their kvetching. Says the author, "We only hear one side. And this administration not only gives us just one side, but makes it up as they go. They exercise a blatant disregard for the principle of public oversight that is the foundation of journalism. The media are used as tools for manipulation rather than education to the extent that stories are created or molded to fit the desired interpretation."

Back to the Cessna. A front-page NY Times article on 5/7/05 stated that, "After spending more than $4.5 billion on screening devices to monitor the nation's ports, borders, airports, mail and air, the federal government is moving to replace or alter much of the anti-terrorism equipment, concluding that it is ineffective, unreliable or too expensive to operate." So what the government has implied, in the interest of spending more money, is that we have not been safe for the past four years. That's some really bad PR for Homeland Security and the Bush administration. Five days later its Homeland Security Jet to the rescue. And scaring a few of those legislators who just voted a half-billion dollar cut in the Homeland Security budget couldn't hurt the cause. Low cost, few witnesses, and a big payoff. Bingo? You decide. Either way, hoax or not, the administration is definitely getting a couple of miles out of this one, but also giving the fact seekers something to chew on. The whole event dramatizes the incredible lack of response encountered by the 'hijacked' airplanes on 9/11. Thankfully, they rarely get to have their cake and eat it too. - R.C.
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