How do we go about "schooling" ourselves about systematic manipulation?

Seriously.

Take note of Andy's case. One "stone" turned a perfectly innocent human being into a full-time fiasco that absorbed our energy and imposed unecessary ADDITIONAL suffering.

Yet, I wonder whether or not we are recognizing all the other "stones" being thrown at us with the specific purpose of dividing us.

I'm just sayin' :shrug:

I've studied emotional blackmail and I witness it ALL THE TIME!!!

What really blows my gasget,...is when we participate in being against one another and all those who present any hope of pulling the pendulum back because they aren't PERFECTLY within our passionate perception. Don't get me wrong: voicing disapproval or disappointment is perfectly natural. But, the automatic throw the baby along with the bathwater thingy,...the stone them mentality,...is just unreal and stupid and divisive and crap.

We all have a common cause (the best interests of human existence which includes preserving the environment in which we live) and a common enemy against that cause. I believe we should always question why anyone would distract from either our common cause or our common enemy.

Maybe, never.

Since you were kind enough to start this topic, I think that I will take advantage of this opportunity to say why I joined here today.

While I realize that there are a one or two things that I might say that may or may not get me flamed or banned, I am going to ask you to read on anyway because I believe that this is one of he most important topics that we can discuss.

I am someone who is very much like most of you. I have a family, a job, and bills that I sometimes struggle to pay. The difference between most of us, though, is that I have always considered myself a republican and still do even though I didn't vote with that party in the last presidential election. My goal in this post is to see if there can be a dialog. If the general response is unfavorable, I suppose that I will have to go back to lurking with the belief and the very real fear that things will not change for the better in this country, that the conditions in this country will continue to spin out of control. Some people refer to this as tyranny but regardless of what it is called, it consists of the systematic degradation of our constitutional rights.

Now - back to topic, sorry. I believe that the primary differences between the moderates in the two main political parties are a couple of issues. This is not the time nor the place for a discussion of those issues, however. What I am here to say is that I am willing to set aside my differences on these topics if you are for the good of our country.

I realize that there are many of you and only one of me and that some may be tempted to tell me to "kiss off" rather than hear my what I have to say but if you've read this far, I encourage you to just take another minute to finish hearing me out. This has nothing to do with me as an individual. It has everything to do with us as citizens, as Americans. I have read at DU many times almost exactly what Just Me says in the original post - written about democrats who disagree with each other. This does not apply only to democrats. This can also apply to dems and non-dems living in harmony. I believe that many of our differences are on issues that are meaningless in the grander scheme of things. They are differences because of the "stones" that are being hurled at us constantly as reflected in the original post. To the end of peaceful coexistence, I am heretofore adopting an open mind on topics that I have not considered open for discussion in the past. I am going to ask you to do the same.

As I previously mentioned, my goal here is dialog but that is only part of it. The rest is to hope to convince even one person that we need each other. If our goal is the preservation of our constitutional rights and our way of life, than we must stand together. We will need compromise but more importantly, we will need to be open-minded. We need to cast aside our differences to accomplish the most important goal of taking our country back from those who have stolen it from us.

I believe with all of my heart that there are a lot of people like me who don't really belong with the ultra-conservatives but are largely unwelcomed by the dems because of a couple of differences in beliefs. Please don't let these "stones" that are being thrown at us, divide us even further. You and I will always be much stronger as we.

people like you versus the regular variety. Thanks for posting your thoughts. Whether others dislike or disagree with anything you might have said or will say, that's freedom of speech in action.

I work with someone who is one of those in-between-parties people and I believe in the range of common sense viewpoints that transcend black and white thinking in the "two" parties.

As a Republican, can you provide ANY insight into why Republicans and Bush voters are going along with all the blatant and dangerous lies of this administration, even after they are exposed and documented (see Memogate, etc.)? Is it just a matter of media spin and "framing"?

The most openminded have difficulty not coming to the conclusion that these people are-- well, you know.

Is the situation so dreadful that people don't want to look at what's right in front of them-- and keep staring into the headlight of the oncoming trainwreck?

"I believe with all of my heart that there are a lot of people like me who don't really belong with the ultra-conservatives but are largely unwelcomed by the dems because of a couple of differences in beliefs."

What "couple of differences in beliefs"? Or-- what do you see as the COMMON GROUND?

There are too many people who have become captive to fear. I think that we have been trained to think that there can be no middle ground on any issues. Ordinary, every-day people are mobilized to fight against the end of whatver is important to them, be it prayer, abortion, gay marriage, etc. They have been convinced that there is no middle ground and unfortunately, there is evidence of this. A friend of mine cites the constant battles to remove any/all references to God from public school as an example of things that are being done to change our way of life for the worst. As a result, he will do whatever he can to protect what he views as his children's rights. If he votes with the other side, he would be conceding an issue that is important to him and nobody wants to do that.

As citizens we have been and continue to be manipulated. There is such a with us/against us mentality propogated by the media and encouraged by politicians on both sides of the aisle. Isn't it odd that the republicans refer to the media as liberal yet democrats refer to it as mainstream/corporate conservative? This is possible because both views of the media are correct. The media is being used to polarize the population. Everything is black or white. Once we start to see the possibility for gray on the most controversial issues, we can all get together and find the issues that we all agree are important - the rights that have been guaranteed to us that are being stripped away daily.

and inaccurate.

"There is such a with us/against us mentality propogated by the media and encouraged by politicians on both sides of the aisle."

No, that's GWBush and Company saying "You're with US or you're against us." The bully boy message has come from the Roval Office since January 2000.

"There are too many people who have become captive to fear."

Right, that's GWBush and Company manipulating from the Roval Office with the fear of terrorism (Patriot Act, phony terror alerts, bogus war that CREATED a nucleus of terrorism in Iraq) and The Other. Which filtered down to the pulbic attitudes on local levels, correct. IT DID NOT come from the Democrats.

"The media is being used to polarize the population."

True dat. Whatever you call it, who OWNS the media? Air America broadcast last night on the effects of depleted uranium poisoning from Daddy Bush' Gulf War and Baby Bush' Gulf War on Iraqi civilians (and newborn deformed babies) and on American troops. Is GE/NBC reporting on that?

I asked: “As a Republican, can you provide ANY insight into why Republicans and Bush voters are going along with all the blatant and dangerous lies of this administration, even after they are exposed and documented (see Memogate, etc.)? Is it just a matter of media spin and "framing"?"

Beyond media manipulation, the question is why more Undeclared and Reasonable Republicans don’t respond and reconsider when the FACTS show that BushCo. lied to take the U.S. to war.

The Republican lies work because they are so BLATANT. And Limbot tells people what they think about everything, so they don’t have to. Most amazing is to hear what hateshow blowhards tell listeners that liberal/Democrats think! How do they fall for that crap? (see The Other, above).

Last night on Jim Lehrer News Hour, Senator Dodd said that over 20 senior Republican officials testified that John Bolton was NOT qualified for the UN ambassador position and that there was testimony that he HAD tried to fire people whose research (as in facts) he wanted to bury.

A Republican Senator sat next to him and repeatedly said that Bolton was qualified and there was no record of him trying to fire people, EVEN THOUGHT DODD NOTED THAT 30 PEOPLE (INCLUDING TOP REPUBS) HAD TESTIFIED THAT HE WAS NOT QUALIFIED AND HE HAD TRIED TO FIRE STAFF FOR DOING THEIR JOBS.

Republican blowhards repeat over and over what they want people to repeat AS IF IT IS TRUE, as if that makes it true.

Democrats who are working with fact are losing in the Bullshit War.

Please don’t say it comes from both side of the aisle. My co-worker thinks “they’re all liars too” and it ends up being a cop out.

The price tag for Clinton’s “lie” was a dry cleaning bill.

The cost of Bush War II is in the billions and in

blood.




We would like to know when Republicans will say enough is enough.

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

a repuke. Hate 'em an all they manipulate to try and stand for...The divisive game has begun and it wasn't started by the dems. A tail wagg'n compromise over here allows a sneaking theft over there. Lies all the gestures repukes intimate as real are fake phony "rhetoric" and nothing more. No room for this crap in my life. I've seen what the actions you suggest do to my country and I don't like it, even for a moment. Nope not fall'n for it. Me Move on! Ug!

-They're totally selfish. Anything and everything is to benefit themselves. There is no room for anything else.

-They ignore any and all questions, or answer with other questions, or attack (the last was a scientology principle, IIRC, I don't know).

-If they hammer at something, like a need to invade Iraq or a need to invade Social Security, they're going to gain enormously from it, and the rest of us will suffer dearly for years to come.

-They use emotion, fear and anxiety to provoke the lowest-common denominator response, in order to herd people along the direction they'll benefit from. Neurons don't fire as well when people are under stress. They may look to others for paths of action, and even come to expect that the government act as a big brother with direction and support.

-They often provide direction in regard to how people should feel and respond ("A thousand points of light" was one of the worst examples-- meant nothing but made people feed as though something community-like had actually been accomplished through it's sheer invocation).

-Inarguable rhetoric, such as using inarguable words like "family" in their projects. Show me a "Family Research Council" and I'll show you a group dedicated to their own selfish ends, which will also exclude others.

-It's all business/corporate. These people have long-term plans, and are implementing them at all levels of society, from weakening checks and balances in government, regulations, etc., to destroying the middle class and creating cheap labor while also outsourcing everything from help desk calls to private armies (Ugandans are being recruited right now).

-Allowing the excluded to die if they won't get in line with policy (see amazing numbers of dying Africans due to funding restrictions for birth control if a clinic even mentions abortion).

We need to restore checks and balances, and keep business out of government, just as much as religious zealots (believing is great, but don't use it to form policy).