Scott McLellan's Plane Briefing - Raises Some More Tinfoil Questions...

Scott McLellan's Plane Briefing - Raises Some More Tinfoil Questions...

For more discussion of the presser see here... (big ups Rose Siding for the heads up)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3648374#3648419

and here...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3641935&mesg_id=3641935

For some earlier plane incident tinfoil.

One thing struck me in all this which is both ironic and curious about all this from the press conference. And I will start with a quote.

Q I think there's a disconnect here because, I mean, yesterday you had more than 30,000 people who were evacuated, you had millions of people who were watching this on television, and there was a sense at some point -- it was a short window, a 15-minute window, but there was a sense of confusion among some on the streets. There was a sense of fear. And people are wondering was this not a moment for the President to exercise some leadership, some guidance during that period of time? Was this not a missed opportunity for the President to speak out and at least clarify what -- that he was informed, and what was taking place at that time? If not even during the 15-minute window, why not later in the day?

MR. McCLELLAN: The President did lead, and the President did that after September the 11th when we put the protocols in place to make sure that situations like this were addressed before it was too late. And that was the case -- that was the case in this situation. And in terms of during this time, this was a matter of minutes when this was occurring. And all the appropriate security personal and Homeland Security officials and others were acting to implement those protocols. And we commend all those that worked to follow those protocols and make sure that this situation was addressed. And it worked, in terms of the protocols.

On September 11th Bush was notified - he just decided to keep talking about a goat rather than addressing the issue... this time he wasn't notified and that seems to be in accordance with new protocols.

I.E. we are expected to believe that after 9/11 the protocols were changed to:

1. Enable the shooting down of planes without notifying * (This makes some sense)
2. Discourage the interruption of bike rides in the park. (This makes no sense)
3. Not notify the president when his wife (and dog) are placed in mortal danger. (again... no sense)

Does this seem odd to anyone?

After what happened on 9/11 - and all the crap * got into over it (thankyou Michael Moore) you would think that he would want to know about things like this as soon as they happened.

And as several questioners pointed out.. while in the end this event turned out to be harmless clearly nobody knew that was going to be the outcome. If a plane had hit the white house how would * have felt about not having his run interrupted.

Clearly it was not assumed that this was harmless. Else how come they evacuated 30,000 people???

So thinking about this logically there are several possibilities.

1. This really was a bona fide alert situation and the protocols instruct nobody to interrupt a * bike trip, no matter what.

2. This was a bona fide alert situation and the protocols do not say what McLellan says they do, but everybody in the security apparatus just thinks that notifying * about security alerts is a drag, so they didn't bother. And looking back * doesn't mind.

3. This wasn't a proper alert and the security brass new it wasn't one, hence no need to notify *. (I.E. this was a publicity stunt)

4. This wasn't a proper alert and * wanted to be in a position of deniability if everything went pear shaped at a later date.

Thinking about all this. None of the above is particularly credible.

As the WH questioners kept saying there are far too many "disconnects".

FINALLY...



I have been to the Washington. If the plane was within 3 miles of the White House it would have been already right over the Washington CBD - how could these pilots have possibly been confused about where they were? This map above shows the no fly zone it basically includes the entire metro area... (not sure about what this one below shows)



Either way the story that they were just foolish doesn't hold that much water. Especially since one of the pilots is quoted as saying they were concerned about the zones when they took off.

You're overlooking the pertinent fact here:

Anything to keep people's minds off Iraq and make sure they're on HIGH ALERT.

Is the funniest one I've ever seen. Thanks for the laugh. Perfect way to start off the week-end. :rofl:

adrenaline rush: Fristian Fear Freeping!

Or am I having severe deja vu?

Thought this new wrinkle deserved a shot of its own... the original was speculating about possible motives for evacuating the capitol

And the dick's in charge.
I mean they told unca' dick right, just not dickhead off peddlin' his ass around washington (and i don't mean jimmyjeff)

I find it odd that McClellan stated they knew Bush wasn't in danger. Just as on 9/11, how did they KNOW Bush wasn't in danger?
Instead he was allowed to ride his tricycle in a very open and vast area. If security was on high alert due to a possible attack on the President's house, wouldn't it make sense to get Bush into some kind of shelter just in case it was a concerted attack, instead allowing him to be a sitting duck out in the open for almost 2 hours?

it is the DUTY of the secret service to protect the president at the expense of their own lives, even to the point of being OVERLY cautious at even the HINT of danger.
Yet, in both these instances, the secret service did absolutely jack squat.

That makes them either the most incompetent secret service in history, or that means they knew AHEAD OF TIME there was no danger to the president.

I cannot say this enough times: the duty of the secret service is to protect the president. In both cases, their behaviour not only made no moves to move him to a more secure area, they showed NO URGENCY.

I'm one of those who at the beginning laughed at people who thought 9/11 was Lihop or Mihop, but that has eaten away at my mind since then, and I have no other answer for it.
The most recent event , in my mind PROVES IT CONCLUSIVELY.

The secret service had no sense of urgency and made no effort to increase the safety of the president during an outright attack (9/11) and during a potential threat (if real).

throw everything else away about pet goat this or that, or timelines or whatever, the behaviour of the secret service proves conclusively that at no time was Bush perceived to be in danger. And the ONLY way that could be true, as the country was definitely being attacked, is if they already knew ahead of time the scope of the attack.

>>If security was on high alert due to a possible attack on the President's house, wouldn't it make sense to get Bush into some kind of shelter just in case it was a concerted attack, instead allowing him to be a sitting duck out in the open for almost 2 hours?<<

After all, the REAL president was in a safe location!

Although why the "*" is needed I do not know. Here is what I do not understand...

These two guys were hired to "create" an attack "mirage" on the White House... all was going to plan until the scrambled planes responded a bit too quickly and the pilots lost the nerve. Then all "pre-planned" staged roles were scrapped and some explanation had to quickly be given. Hence the messy nature of the explanation.

Reporters were either kept in the building (mostly) or asked to run off grounds... thereby allowing witnesses to be present for the "event" in order to document it... when the plan failed, no one new what to tell the reporters.

The * and the others were in "control" room, which is why they were "missing" and also at the same time "fully aware of the situation".

My guess is that this was timed for the visit of Mrs. Reagan given that the * family hates her to no end. Oh imagine the sympathy if the pilots had succeeded????

Or I am completely paranoid, which is quite possible.

I think, however, this was an event not gone as planned no matter what the purpose of it was.

Oh, are the two people from a particular part of the world?

.. or postulating... along very similar lines.

a DISTRACTION from the UK memo being brought up last night by 1 M$MW (cnn) possibly.

it was definately FAKE, imho

peace

It's the only explanation that fits the facts...


:)

Just trying to make it easy :)

* was flying the plane and buzzing the WH, yelling out the window for Laura to "lookit me! lookit me!!"

Hence, while he was in no danger, it was prudent to evacuate everyone on the ground.

:woohoo:

:evilgrin:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3652981&mesg_id=3652981

BREAKING NEWS: D.C. Small Plane Incident Was An Exercise - Scott McLellan


Just heard on C-Span in the live coverage of the presser...

Scotty McLellan in the live press conference dropped a bombshell.

The reason the President wasn't nofified will after the event was that it was AN EXERCISE.. and * was the only person inside the White House that knew.

Aside from George Bush the only other cabinet member involved in the exercise was new Homeland Security Chief Michael Chertkoff.

Mclellan said Homeland Security wanted a real examination of the capitol's defences. "And they came up wanting".

McLellan said that in the forecase for the scenario the small plane had not been expected to get so close to the white house.

"If a slow moving cessna not responding to radio traffic can get this close to the Capitol then we are in trouble", he said. He went on to point out that a faster plane would have undoubtedly been able to deliver its payload to deadly effect.

Mr McLellan was clearly at pains to point out that the reason everybody was kept in the dark for so long about the true nature of these events was so that they could assess not only the preparedness of authorities to respond to such a threat, but also the media and political response to such an event.

"Fear is the stock in trade of the terrorist," he said. "Homeland Security want to be able to assess how people react to these events."

He would the Homeland Security service would not rule out holding further "live fire" exercises saying that the experience had been invaluable to the Homeland Security teams involved.



WOW!!!!

:sarcasm:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3653251&mesg_id=3653251

Yes it is satire. But I wouldn't be surprised if it is in fact true.

And no Walt it was not designed to make DU look bad.... if you knew me you would realise that I love this place. LOVE IT TO BITS.

It is just that the official story doesn't make any sense and the reaction to this report kind of indicates why in a myriad of ways.

Why wasn't the President notified?

If 30,000 people are being scared shitless and the nation's capitol closed down and his own wife is in mortal danger - why would they not interrupt his bike ride?

There is no adequate explanation for this. And this is by far the best one.

I posted some speculation about this in a couple of other threads with discussion (which someone might like to find - I will provide a chocolate fish) but nobody was paying attention.

So I thought I would try satire.

So Sorry everybody... I didn't mean to alarm anyone.

Ok.. lets keep following the logic.

It being an exercise makes some sense in that

1. It may explain why they didn't actually shoot down - even though this plane got within five blocks (is that about 1 minute) of the White House.

2. It explains why Bush wasn't notified and why Scott Mclellan sounded like such a complete pillock yesterday.

But lets assume for arguments sake that its not an exercise (since everybody seems to think that is so far fetched.)

And lets hold on to the original thesis that the reason bush wasn't notified is that he already knew (and I think that the last post demonstrates to some extent that that is a logical explanation - that is why people were so quick to beleive the hoax - it makes sense.)

So its not an exercise but bush knows....

But what does this mean?

I have some theories that I am willing to expand upon and probably will because I talk too much.

Thanks Oreo...

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2003/jun/m05-009.shtml

Exercise Scrambles 2 F-16s Over D.C. Tonight

From: Joan Woodward <sky.cat@worldnet.att.net >
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 12:07:44 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 15:56:16 -0400
Subject: Exercise Scrambles 2 F-16s Over D.C. Tonight


NORAD has a training exercise that will take place tonight (June
5) somewhere in the skies over or near Washington, D.C. Having
worked on a sighting involving a NORAD scramble and pursuit of
unidentified lights in the D.C. area last summer (see IUR,
Winter 2002-2003), I would love to see some of this action that
will take place tonight. However, NORAD will not give any
information about the location of the training mission.

I wanted to alert people in this area and to ask that if anyone
sees part of this exercise, I would love to have their
observations. The time is from 10:30 pm to midnight.

Two Cessna "invaders" will cause a scramble of two F-16's from
Andrews Air Force Base. If anyone sees the Cessna's, with or
without F-16s in pursuit, I would be extremely interested in
your observations in terms of lights, noise, anything usual or
unusual. Visibility should be good. This exercise was originally
scheduled for June 4 but was canceled because of an extremely
low ceiling.

The link to the Washington Post article is not working, but if
you go to www.Washingtonpost.com and search F-16 on their site
search, the article will come up: "Air Defense to the Tested
Tonight" by Spencer S. Hsu. The rescheduling article from
today's paper will also come up.


Joan Woodward
Fairfax, VA

The question is why? If it was an "official" evacuation drill, you'd think the DC police would have been involved.

I mean, running like a scared rabbit to Louisiana and then Nebraska and not appearing in public for three days hardly sounds like "leadership" to me. Hell, Clinton was in Australia at the time of the attacks, and even he got to New York City before Chimpy did.

If they say it enough times, you know it's true.

He led us, all right...by his actions!! And his actions screamed "Run!!!! RUNNNNNNNN!!!!!! Grab the kids, leash the dog, round up the cats!!!!! Men, grab yer balls, wimmen, grab yer petticoats, pick 'em up and RUUUUUUUUUUUUNNNNNNNNNN like the devil hisself was after ya!!!!!!!!"

He led, alright--he was the one running the fastest; he was WAY out in front! Guess all that jogging (to say nothing of a large plane) came in handy!!!`

... this into a party piece :)

I don't believe a fucking thing they say. NOTHING.

Mass murdering treasonous criminals.

that whether this was a credible threat or just grandstanding, they once again forgot to go pick up the figurehead.

While I despise *, I do not believe he is really the president. He was too stupid to even lead as the governor of Texas, which is a really low power position (I'm from there, I lived there during his reign) and more brain cells have gone AWOL from that brain since. No way, no how, is he allowed to do anything more than clear brush, ride bikes and read first grade primer books during photo ops.

The thing that blows me away is that it was an incredible snafu to forget to pick up the figurehead and pretend to protect it during 9/11. Why in the world would they make the same mistake twice? The men behind the curtain seem to be falling down on the job and I thought that was *'s job (the falling down thing, I mean).

To do this once is a mistake... to do it twice is EXTREMELY CARELESS and I think it hints at the possibility that things did not go as planned.

That is unless it was an exercise.

If it was an exercise then it is explained which is why I suggested that possibility.

...was a chimp supporter, campaign worker AND contributor!

Now, that's irony, or...something!

The two aviators were identified as Hayden L. "Jim" Sheaffer, 69, a truck driver from Lititz, Pa., north of Lancaster, and Troy Martin, 36, a vacuum cleaner system salesman from Akron, seven miles away. They were released without charges after authorities determined that they posed no security threat.

incident, but it worked fine the night before. I live here, it was all over the local news.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/12/AR2005051201614.html

also consider that David Corn (Nation), who has an office in the capitol area said on several programs that evacuation route out of capitol area was blocked at the time of incident

besides the fact the pres was ride his trycycle in the park, and besides the fact that the DC police line to the secret service was all of the sudden down, and besides the fact that this happened on 5/11, is the glaring fact that the folks in the plane are let go after a few hours? I have yet to hear the names of them, or see their faces on TV or an interview or anything else??? But folks from afghanistan who had nothing to do with 911 are in jail for years in gitmo, kids shining laser pointers at planes are detained, questioned and arrested and charged. etc etc etc.

WTF??? I smell a rat. Something else happned that they don't want us paying attention to, I think it is all a diversion.

.. I am cogitating some more..

but one more thought occurred on the way.. which I will note here before I lose it.


Bush Knew
- it was an exercise so they didn't need to tell him
- it was something else and he didn't want to be officially told

vs

Bush Didn't Know
- and someone wanted him not to know
- and the security bods didn't think he needed to know (this is the official line)

Can't you see that with your own eyes?

:sarcasm:

Maybe the prez is just so oblivious, that when they told him about the plane and evacuation, HE decided that he'd finish his ride anyway.

Later "they" realized that bike riding while Rome burned, didn't look very good, so they said instead that he wasn't informed.

We know his judgment is impaired, so isn't that plausible?

.. continued on the bike ride had he been told. Remember his wife was in the house at the time and whatever we think about * he does seem to have at least a modicum of affection for pickles.

Plus, Mclellan isn't so stupid that he wouldn't realise which way this lie would end up being spun - and that that would be negative.

If they were going to tell a lie it would have been easier to say that the President was told and kept informed of events while he continued on his bike ride. He had trust in his team to do the right thing and that he expected to be notified of any significant developments. This could be spun as some form of courage under fire perhaps.

Frankly I think the reason McLellan had to tell the truth about this is that after 911 he screwed up so bad when asked questions about what happened. I.E. the "I saw the plane fly into the building and thought that must be one bad pilot" remark which we all know cannot possibly be true.

Better to have * recollect the truth and not fuck it up in a CBS IV than have him try to remember a lie.

and Karl has given up the Color Coded Terror Alerts because the cried "terror" too many times during the '04 election and now nobody pays any attention to the alerts.

Karl is trolling for sympathy points so they are crafting 'direct' threats....IE:

1. The mysterious briefcase found at the capitol several weeks ago.

2. The rogue plane over DC that turned out to be a cloud but was covered by national media.

3. The pinecone/grenade during the Georgia stopover.

4. The wayard Cessna that caused 30K people to be evacuated.

This is total "wag the dog" manipulation; the message -YOU ARE NEVER SAFE! YOU MUST ALWAYS BE AFRAID!

Does this guy EVER work? Wouldn't that be a normal activity for that time of day?

(note: THIS IS ALSO POSTED IN OWN THREAD...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3655689&mesg_id=3655689)

How many ways can you skin a cat… the continuing mystery of what really happened on 511. Examining the official report. Remarkably the account published by the Washington Post on Saturday is MARKEDLY DIFFERENT than that published the day after the event. Which is correct is anyone's guess at this stage. There are definitely still many unanswered questions about what happened.. one might have thought that after all the confusion that has developed over 9/11timelines the authorities might have got a bit better at telling their story. This is not rocket science.

Today's Washpost report (link below) says it is based on a " A log prepared by federal security officials " of events provided to the paper. At the very least the reporters writing this story have failed dismally to explain the timeline in a manner that makes any sense. And immediately questions are raised about the difference between the two accounts. One of the actual day and the other two days later. Given that this must have been one of the most intense 30 minutes in the experience of the aviation and security personnel involved something a little more definitive might have been expected.

I would appreciate it if people could extract relevant segments of the timeline of events from other published accounts and try to make sense of them. As usual when the Washpost fails to do its job it seems to be left up to us to try and read between the lines.

Al

*********

From the Wash Post reports:
Confused Fliers Trigger Capital Scare
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/11/AR2005051100887.html
&
Pilot Was Ill-Prepared, Froze in Flight, FAA Says
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/13/AR2005051301570.html?nav=hcmodule

Copy from second report is indented - like so

MY COMMENTS & QUESTIONS IN CAPITALS

The two aviators were identified as Hayden L. "Jim" Sheaffer, 69, a truck driver from Lititz, Pa., north of Lancaster, and Troy Martin, 36, a vacuum cleaner system salesman from Akron, seven miles away. They were released without charges after authorities determined that they posed no security threat.

WHO ARE THESE TWO PILOTS?

Sheaffer and Troy Martin have been unavailable to comment since federal authorities released them Wednesday. They were forced down about 90 minutes after they took off from an airport in Smoketown, Pa., near Lancaster, headed for an air show in Lumberton, N.C.
Some neighbors said they were mystified about the whereabouts of the two men and their families. At the Sheaffer home in Warwick Township, Pa., no one answered the door or telephone. About 10 miles away, at Martin's residence in Akron, Pa., a note on the door asked reporters to go away. No one answered the door or phone there, either. A next-door neighbor, Cindy Hamill, said of the Martins: "This family's in crisis."

SO NOT MUCH MORE THERE…. UNDERSTANDABLE I GUESS BUT I WONDER IF THEY WILL EVER TELL THEIR STORY DIRECTLY?

The men departed at 10:58 a.m. from the small airport at Smoketown, about 12 miles from their homes in the middle of Lancaster County farm country.

They were forced down about 90 minutes after they took off from an airport in Smoketown, Pa., near Lancaster, headed for an air show in Lumberton, N.C.

SO THEY HEADED SOUTH TO WASHINGTON. A MAP OF WHERE THESE TWO PLACES ARE WOULD BE HELPFUL.

Twenty-five minutes later, an FAA air traffic controller monitoring airspace around Baltimore noticed a small aircraft 45 miles north of the Capitol heading for Washington's restricted airspace.

SO THEY WERE NOTICED AT 11:23am ACTING OUTSIDE RULES... 45 MILES OR 22 MINS AWAY FROM WHITEHOUSE.

The pilot was not in contact with controllers as required for private fliers. FAA controllers immediately alerted agencies on the Domestic Events Network, a special communications system used to notify all agencies that protect the capital's airspace.

AND FIVE MINUTES LATER 11.28 ENTERED A RESTRICTED ZONE...

At 11:28 a.m., trackers spotted the plane entering the Air Defense Identification Zone, the 2,000-square-mile area around Washington that requires private planes to remain in radio contact with controllers. The plane entered the zone from an area 30 miles north of Reagan National Airport, but its radio was not tuned to the right frequency.

RADIO TUNED OUT... IS IT POSSIBLE TO BROADCAST TO A PLANE ON MORE THAN ONE FREQUENCY? IF THEY WERE ON THE WRONG FREQUENCY WHAT FREQUENCY WERE THEY ON? WERE OTHER FREQUENCIES TRIED?

Shortly after 11:30, the Cessna turned east toward Baltimore, then moments later turned south.

SO THE PLANE DEFTLY SOLD THE AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS A DUMMY AND BOUGHT THEMSELVES 17 MINUTES (OF THE 22 MINUTES THEY HAD TO GET THEM TO THE WHITE HOUSE).

At 11:47, the Customs and Border Protection agency scrambled a Black Hawk helicopter and Citation jet from Reagan National Airport to intercept the plane.

WHEN WAS CUSTOMS AND BPA NOTIFIED THAT THE PLANE WAS INBOUND IN A RESTRICTED ZONE. WHY DOES IT TAKE 17 MINUTES TO SCRAMBLE A COPTER AND JET?

The log shows that the Black Hawk was airborne by 11:55 a.m., as the plane kept heading into Washington. Five minutes later, the log says that "fighters are on the target" and that "flares are authorized."

SO WAS IT SCRAMBLED AT 11.47 OR 11.55? PERHAPS THIS MEANS THE ORDER TO SCRAMBLE WASN'T GIVEN TILL 11:47 AND THE ACTUAL SCRAMBLE TOOK PLACE AT 11:55. IN WHICH CASE THE NEXT BIT FROM THE FIRST STORY MUST BE WRONG.

Authorities said the Black Hawk reached the Cessna first, at 11:56, followed by the Citation minutes later.

NEVERTHELESS THE BLACKHAWK STEPPED ON IT AND GOT TO THE PLANE EXTREMELY FAST. CREDIT TO THEM.... (OR NOT… ABOUT NOW THE OFFICIAL TIMELINE GOES AWRY AS YOU WILL SEE.)

Neither could get the Cessna's attention.

HOW ON EARTH CAN A BLACKHAWK HELICOPTER FAIL TO GET THE ATTENTION OF THE PILOT OF A CESSNA? ONE IS A LARGE BLACK MILITARY HELICOPTER THE OTHER A TINY 1000 POUND PLANE?

Hayden "Jim" Sheaffer, 69, froze when he saw a Black Hawk helicopter appear near his right wing while flying toward the White House and had difficulty operating his small, single-engine aircraft, officials said yesterday. It took the valiant effort of Sheaffer's student-pilot companion, Troy D. Martin, who had only 30 logged hours of flight time, to take over the controls and land the plane at an airport in Frederick, officials said.

SO STORY CHANGES… HE DID SEE THE BLACKHAWK BUT FROZE.

As the Cessna closed in, flying at 2,500 feet, alert levels started to jump across the city.

PLANE IS FLYING AT 900 METERS. WHAT WAS THE VISIBILITY... FROM ALL THE PHOTOS IT LOOKED LIKE A NICE DAY. FROM 900 METERS THE MALL AND WASHINGTON MONUMENT OUGHT TO STAND OUT RATHER CLEARLY I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT.

At 12:03 p.m., the White House went to code red, with the aircraft within three miles.

AIRCRAFT IS NOW WITHIN 3 MILES TRAVELLING AT 120 MILES AN HOUR (2 miles a minute) BLACKHAWK HAS BEEN WITH IT FOR SEVEN MINUTES AND HAS FAILED TO GET ITS ATTENTION.

At 12:04, the log shows the missiles were about to be used.

IN OTHER WORDS THE BALLOON GOES UP AT APPROX 12:03-04

The customs aircraft, meanwhile, had been urgently trying to get the Cessna's attention. The crews of one or both aircraft held up a sign in their cockpits bearing the radio frequency the Cessna should tune to, officials said.

CUSTOMS AIRCRAFT HOLDS UP SIGN IN THE WINDOW.

Those on the small plane apparently saw the sign, made radio contact, but refused at first to turn back, officials said.

SO SURROUNDED BY A BLACKHAWK AND A GOVT JET WITH PILOTS WAVING FRANTICALLY AND EVEN AFTER ANSWERING A RADIO CALL - WITH A ROOKIE PILOT IN THE SEAT HEADING DIRECTLY FOR THE WASHINGTON MONUMENT AT 900 METERS THESE CLOWNS CONTINUE TO RESIST?

IS THIS A BIT ODD?

"No," the federal pilots ordered, "this is federal law enforcement. You will land that aircraft." Finally, at 12:06 p.m., flying over Northwest Washington, the Air Force fighters arrived, fired warning flares, and the Cessna fliers realized that they were in trouble.

….and…

It was only when the F-16s fired four bright flares across the plane's nose that the two men realized the gravity of their situation, officials said. The plane then veered northwest, out of town, escorted by the interceptors, security helicopters and a U.S. customs jet.

BRIGHT SPARKS THESE BOYS.

The FAA also said that Sheaffer was unaware of intercept procedures and did not know how to respond once he saw the Black Hawk, customs jet and two F-16s. The F-16s flew by several times, both of them dropping flares to get his attention.

WHERE ARE THEY HEADED NOW? THEY WERE WITHIN 3 MILES OF WHITEHOUSE THREE MINUTES EARLIER.. AND FLEW PRESUMABLY ANOTHER FOUR MILES IN THIS TIME (3 MINS). IF THEY WERE HEADED SOUTH TOWARDS THE WHITE HOUSE AS THE STORY IMPLIES THEY OUGHT BY NOW HAVE PASSED OVER WHITE HOUSE... ELSE THEY WERE HEADED IN ANOTHER DIRECTION.

Five minutes later, the White House alert dropped to yellow, and a 12:14 p.m. the "all-clear" was issued there.

OOPS… DIDN'T THEY KNOW ABOUT THIS.

The log shows that authorities initially planned to divert the plane to Leesburg. But even with the jets and helicopter roaring nearby, the Cessna was "not communicating" at 12:16, the log said. Finally, at 12:22, an entry says, "They are communicating, the fighters will force down at Frederick."

IN ORDER TO ATTEMPT TO MAKE SENSE OF THIS YOU HAVE TO ASSUME THAT THE CESSNA HAS STARTED TO FOLLOW THE BLACKHAWK. BUT IS NOT COMMUNICATING WITH THE AIRCRAFT BETWEEN 12:04 and 12:16. IN EITHER EVENT THE TWO ACCOUNTS IN THE WASHINGTON POST ARE CONTRADICTORY.

The Cessna landed at the Frederick airport at 12:37 p.m.

ONE MIGHT ASSUME THIS LAST DETAIL IS CORRECT I GUESS...

*********

(After a bit of crunching in the other thread
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3655689&mesg_id=3655689
here are my findings on timeline issues.)

The various reports are too contradictory to know with any certainty what actually happened. After surveying AP, NYT, WashPost and ABC we have five different timelines - two from the Washington Post alone as shown in previous post.

Significantly the small amounts of time involved in the discrepancies are critical to whether the interception was a success or a failure in terms of keeping Washington secure.

UNANSWERED QUESTIONS:

1. Was the blackhawk scrambled at 11:47 or 11:55?

2. Did the blackhawk reach the Cessna at 11:56 or later?

3. Where was the Cessna when it was finally intercepted? (the various timelines place it in different positions at different times and in some cases the timelines themselves record speeds that it would be impossible for the cessna to have achieved.)

4. Why did the cessna pilots ignore the blackhawk and the citation jet?

5. Were the f16s scrambled at 11:57am or 12pm?

6. Did they reach the cessna at 12pm 12:03pm or 12:06pm?

7. Why was an all clear given at the White House 26 minutes before one at the capitol?

8. Why was the information provided to the media on these events uniformly unreliable?

9. Why do these self same media reports conclude that the false alarm shows the system working when quite clearly it does not?

10. Why was the President not notified?

what did they know that no one else knew?

:hi:

peace

That the cessna was too small to do much damage to the Pentagon.

that doesn't explain ANYTHING unless they KNEW it wasn't - though that would certainly not be surprising it is strange behavior UNLESS they knew.

if they knew, that may also explain why the chimp didn't need to be informed, probably didn't want him having to deal with the demands of being on camera in real-time... and why, coincidentally, the war president, in the middle of a war day, was out on a 'bike-ride', where no-one could reach him, cough, cough, in the 21st century. though it does fit with his media persona, i'll admit.

be that as it may, i still say it is an important fact and anomaly that should be added to the list of other anomalies.

:hi:

peace

Bush screwed up on 9-11 and showed he can't handle a national crisis. They were worried he would either do nothing and look like the idiot he is. Or he would over-react and give orders to shoot down a harmless passenger plane.I think they made the right decision.

I think I read where CNN misstated that the Cessna is capable of carrying a 2000 lb bomb. Clearly a lie. More like a couple of suitcases. Seems to me, that would be precisely the wrong procedure for the crcumstances. If anything, it would create more opportunity of attack for terrorists if they were intent on spreading airborne weaponized anthrax. IIRC, we still haven't caught the perp who murdered some Americans using weaponized anthrax, oddly timed when real questions were being asked about 9/11 and just as the Patriot Act was about to be dumped. What's to stop him from attacking?

Think how this would go if all these legislators, aides, bureaucrats are evacuated and anthrax is sprayed? Heck, I'd bet no one in the observation planes would notice if it was rigged up properly. Who makes the call to evacuate....why not the WH? Why would it be safer outside then inside?

This really makes no sense. Both these guys must know Washington is a restricted zone, their flying only 2500 feet - perfect visability to see Washington landmarks. No way do they just ignore planes and helicopters for a 1/2 hour.....then totally disappear from the limelight.

I hope this wasn't some rehearsal....

....... now that is some real deal tinfoil....

"WE DIDN'T KNOW!" Yep those are mighty small circles. There using last term excuses and they haven't even opened there mouth's yet. Something is absent in thier mindedness.