How on earth did leftism come to be associated with hedonism?

Disclaimer: Because there are posters who wring flamewars from baseless assumptions, I deem it necessary to state that (1) I don't believe in censorship, (2) I don't care what goes on in your bedroom and (3) the government has no place in said bedroom. So there.


I am a Christian socialist, a designation many of my peers (college students) are surprised to learn. Do you know what they always say? "You don't come across as a radical," or "You don't look like one?" Somehow, my appearance (cross necklace, tucked in shirts), my tastes (I indulge in gospel and classical music) and my behavior (I shy away from using expletives, I don't drink alcohol, I don't believe in pre-marital sex)...somehow, all of this is assumed to belie my ethos. Somehow my disgust with the violence that is allowed on prime-time network television, or the myriad rants I spew bewailing the fact that a narcissist like Carrie Bradshaw (of "Sex and the City" fame) is more inspirational to young women than Harriet Tubman, Emma Goldman, Dorothy Day and Mother Jones combined...such words give way to preconceived notions.

So, keeping in mind that one's political ideology probably has little correlation with appearance or proclivity (I mean, don't rightists like Jimmy Swaggert turn out to be, to quote Bill Maher, "the biggest sexual freaks"), this youngin' wants to know:

Why do people associate leftism with hedonism; conversely, how did conservatism become associated with austerity? Can this be chalked up to some collective memory of the 60's counterculture?

Physical excess? Hedonism was to deny that aspect, acknowledge that it is there and deny it. You see, the world is all confused darn it. But I think the right of the isle might want to look at the mule dating, child raping, and other such deviants in their group and ask why they are criminal? I would rather be a hedonist, even by the current definition than a criminal, especially the worst kind of criminal, any day.

Hedonism means and always has meant the view that whatever is pleasurable is intrinsically good, even the greatest good. Denial of physical pleasure is asceticism, which is practically hedonism's opposite.

1). The doctrine that pleasure is the sole good (Epicurus)
2). Emphasis of living moderately, but pleasurably ("I am thrilled with pleasure in the body when I live on bread and water, and I spit on luxurious pleasures..." Epicurus).
3). Pleasure = sole good, but too much pleasure will result in pain: example drinking too much one will awaken with aches.
4). Emphasis on acquiring pleasure and avoiding pain = sole good/good life
5). Types of pleasures are categorized as thus: dynamic: pleasure that enables pain is bad (sexual pleasure, fame, gluttony, etc.); passive: pleasure that does not intrinsically include pain (friendship).

Then there are the two schools, etc., again, you are dealing with "good" and "pleasure" in terms that are different from their connotations today.

Propaganda.

You marginalize people by associating them with certain things, one being hedonism.

I've devoted my life to associating liberalism and hedonism.... :evilgrin:

http://www.libchrist.com/

Good stuff.

of kids, but to the paternity of fundamentalists. And fundamentalists can get nuts when it comes to sex. Look at the focus of Islamist fundies and sex. What women wear if they wear the burka has to do with sex. More so that jeans and a tea shirt. A burka says.. cover yourselves so that I, as a man, can objectify your hole damm body & even your face as sex objects.\

Ridiculous.

In Germany it's the same thing. The "conservatives" are the people who will change anything (for the worse) in order to help big money; they'll sacrifice human dignity, animal's rights and nature and all of our future. They call the Greens (I'm not talking of the Fischers) and the Leftists "Progressive" and - what's more - the Greens and the Leftists call themselves "progressive"... while in reality Greens and Leftists are the real conservatives.

Somehow the semantics got mixed up... no, not somehow. The Right has always been much more clever (and more unscrupulous) in the use of propaganda. And so to this day every little uneducated momma thinks that the "conservatives" must necessarily act in her interest...


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Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

our university system is also heavily influenced by the Greeks, and we all know what universities stand for!

:puke:

Prostitutes, alcoholics, and rapists who are spending other people's money with no plan of paying it back are preaching to the working class about values.

LW is for normal pleasures, which can mean deep calm.. the best.. or sex, which is second best, as it does not last long. So often LW should be called hedonisitic, esp the sex branch. The calm pleasure branch is also LW, but resembles a buddhist monastery.. and is in reality a type of hedonism. So buddhism, hedonism, christianity and the LW have a lot in common.

RW is for austerity in those they control, not themselves. Unless they are the masochist branch

CORE DEF'S

RW is freud's "anal sadism" type... greed and sadomasochism

LW is the normal pleasure loving type.. and part of that is ending pain in all humans. Thus sharing, not greed.

NOTE: hedonism may be taken to include pleasure at other's expense.. in which it is not at all LW.

SUM : RW is pyramiding
LW is levelling

your love of classical music is a sign of LW love of calm, not excitement. Calm is the most enduring pleasure. Your christianity may be an accord with X's pacifism and espousal of sharing.. and championing of the underdog.

Why do you tuck in your shirt?

I reject the style of my peers (you know, slightly baggy pants/gelled hair/overpriced brand-name shirt) and I find that a tucked shirt cuts a stoic figure (I'm 6'3").

Sorry.

I'll try to be less conspicuous.

Unless it involves farm animals.

...and paints disobedience of the same as hedonism.

It threatens the authority of the church and the state. Therefore it must be reserved for church and state leaders and kept from the masses.

If you research hard enough you'll be shocked to find early Marxist movements adopted some strikingly revolutionary positions on social issues. Civil marriage. Divorce. Free sex. You know, all the things that have led to the ruination of our society...

But some of us have baked both of our lobes. I'm a real mellon head I tell ya! :crazy:

free market capitalism.

In Social issues it means libertarianism.

Left as in sitting at the table on the left side of the king. The aristocrats and clergy sat on the right.

Liberalism today isn't quite so laissez-faire. Its an imprecise term because its changed its meaning so often over the centuries.

Left is always historically accurate because it represents the one battle that is a constant in human social history:

THE MANY

versus

THE FEW