What I believe vs. what I know

Let me start this off by saying that I hope this will be allowed to stay up. This will be my final post on this subject and then I'm off to find something better to do with my time. I have received pm's accusing me of everything from being Bev to being from CU, not to mention the nasty ones I've gotten from the fundraisers, insinuating that I'd be jumping for joy if Andy dies.

What I believe is that Andy IS sick and does need treatment. I do not believe Andy himself is fully aware of what's gone down here and I'm not entirely sure I blame him. He has enough to worry about and he's been told over and over to just relax and let these people do all the heavy lifting. The one and only thing I blame Andy for is not correcting Will Pitt and other people when they put out the word on their respective blogs that yes, he did have pancreatic cancer. This WAS a misrepresentation of the facts, and that is not debateable. Words can be deleted at this site, but they remain at Will's blog and all the others who decided to pitch in and help. This I know and it cannot be disputed.

What I believe is that, however well intentioned, the people raising money for Andy created mass hysteria on this site and others. Andy is loved by many for all he's done, for good reason. I believe that 99% of the people who donated, including myself, would have donated regardless of the diagnosis, or it seems, lack of one. The one thing I'm not sure of is how much of this was intentional on the fundraiser's part. My feeling is that it wasn't and I hope that I'm right. There are a couple of them that I'm not so sure about anymore, after some of the PM's and replies I've received from them. I can't guess as to what their motives are anymore, because all I receive when I ask questions are answers that either make no sense when compared to previous answers or repeats of previous answers that don't seem to be true.

What I know is that the way this has been handled has created a lasting effect on many of us here at DU. This could have been avoided in so many ways that I won't even bother to list them. I'd be here all day if I go into the things that could have and should have been done differently and besides, it's all a moot point now. I have all the respect in the world for Skinner, Elad and EarlG, but I do believe they dropped the ball on this one.

This website was used in a very public way to raise these funds and to shut down anyone with questions now by saying that none of these concerns should be aired publicly is pretty questionable, not to mention risky, in the middle of a fund drive.

Also, Will being accused of simply providing fodder for that other website is ridiculous. Especially considering that every last thing that has gone on over here for the past week concerning this fundraiser is proving them RIGHT. You don't know how much it pains me to say that, but the truth is the truth.

My last word on the subject is that I hope that somehow this all gets worked out, Andy gets the treatment he needs and that the damage this has caused doesn't keep someone who desperately needs help in the future from getting the help they need. Anyone who sent me pm's accusing me of being a troll, being Bev, wishing death upon Andy? Stop checking your inbox now, cause I'm not even going to dignify that bullshit with an answer.

I don't know anything about this, heck I don't have 1000 posts, but I know that in a Democracy, you are entitled to your opinion albeit not a popular one, but your opinion none the less. When I see posters getting really angry about this, I wonder if they realize how much they remind me of the other side and how their word is the one and only word. Remember there are several sides to the story. I don't know anything about anything when it comes to the subject matter and frankly hope that this all works out good in the end.

I must however speak that we are entitled to question and ask questions even if they are not popular. Isn't that what we have been doing with this administration? Let us not forget our purpose here is to band together to save our Democracy. So let us do that please..

should just be banned here.

:shrug:

In light of the history of these things, I think there's really little other choice to be made by Skinner, Elad, and EarlG.

It's unfortunate, but the well was originally poisoned during the BBV fiasco.

As far as I'm concerned, if those raising money for Andy had been honest and up front in explaining that Andy didn't actually have pancreatic cancer and that Andy was eschewing care at a local Medicare-receiving hospital with the highest success rate in the nation in order to get solely self-funded care at Johns Hopkins, this wouldn't even be an issue.

It's as though a DUer asked for donations in order to get a car to drive to work but refused to purchase a car until s/he had enough funds for a brand new Jag.

I probably shouldn't jump into the fray, but really. I don't think you can compare wanting to have surgery at the hospital with the best survival rates to wanting to drive a "brand new Jag."

I saw that the info was hazy -- but health info is ALWAYS hazy and contradictory -- but I believed donating was for a good purpose. It wasn't a lie: not like he SAID he was going to have surgery at JH and was really pocketing the dough.

Anyway -- somehow this has brought out the worst in people so yeah, probably fundraising should be handled differently from now on.

Virgina Mason, to be exact.

I've gotten some PMs that attest to the fact that doctors were ready to operate on Andy to remove the tumor but that a friend convinced him to go to Johns Hopkins.

Look at it this way: if you were given a virtual death sentence diagnosis, and the best hospital in the nation was right in your back yard, why would you subject yourself to a trip across country?

Maybe because your diagnosis wasn't a virtual death sentence?

From one accused troll to another. :hug:

the diagnosis. The fact that there are slews of people all over the country dedicating their time and talents to seeking truth and attempting to further the cause of democracy in our country at the cost of having no health care coverage is a travesty. It is one of the primary reasons we have to keep at this and not give up hope. I am sorry that Will Pitt was mislead or misinformed in that bloggers and internet journalism really take it in the shorts when something turns out to be inaccurate or overblown. Our adversaries just lie in wait for the opportunity to discredit any and all information generated by internet journalists. So to the extent that it may have tarnished Will Pitt's reputation I think it is a very serious matter. Will has a reputation of good faith and integrity and anything that would cause a shadow of doubt about the veracity of any story he reports is potentially damaging to our central cause. So in that respect the damage is considerable but I also agree that hashing and rehashing everything at this point is, well, pointless!

Thanks for pretty much summing up the situation with the insights that generally speaking people on the whole acted out of concern and passed on information that was accurate to the best of their knowledge. We all make mistakes and often tempers flare and feelings get hurt when such emotionally charges issues of life and death are at stake. All the best to you, Will Pitt and all the DU'ers that are in any way connected to the soliciting and giving to this cause. May we all mend fences and continue to fight the good fight together!

DU rules should be updated to address not only possible disruption and trolls, but also to protect the minority -- whatever it may be in a particular case -- against the majority mob.

I'm not a big fan of rules, in general. And I'm not in a "sober" enough frame of mind to really be able to tangibly quantify what I think this should look like. But I would hope that getting called a blood-sucker for asking a question would be considered the worst kind of disruption.

Neither fly nor I created mass hysteria nor did we misrepresent anything. We set out with the facts we had to raise money for a very sick friend. And I would do it again in a heartbeat.

My offer to refund your donation stands.

This is who I am, btw:
http://www.sanluisobispo.com/mld/mercurynews/living/7448983.htm

And this is an alternate view of what DUers accomplished during the drive to get Andy life saving surgery:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3674268&mesg_id=3678731

And that is my last response to you on this matter.

B.

As a long time lurker, but recent member of this website I have had the unique perspective of an outsider on this whole situation. I have stayed out of the way, kept to myself and simply observed. I was moved to tears by all of those who donated, it reinforced my beliefs in the goodness of people. I was proud to call myself a liberal. I was also shocked and deeply disturbed to see the reactions on this board when people had the "audacity" to ask questions or to ask for some verification of Andy's illness. I can't count the number of times I read " if you don't trust Andy...then let me give you back your 5 dollars or whatever you donated" and "I trust Will Pitt...if he says this is on the up and up then his word is good enough for me". Unfortunately this matter has caused a great divide in this otherwise wonderful community...there has been so much back biting and hostility, it's really sad.

Thank you.