OK, so First Lady seeks to repair US image by wearing pants to Muslim

country. This is one of my pet peeves. I remember all the falderal about Hillary wearing pants in the WH and to some WH affairs. The RW smeared her for it and claimed that once rid of the Clintons from the WH the Republicans would restore dignity to WH and the American Presidency.
So Condi and now the First Lady restore our dignity by weraing pants to greet Muslim leaders totally insensitive to the culture that frowns on weomen wearing "mens clothes." Is it me or is this just plain disrespectful?

She has to wear them to cover her hairy legs

of being the brightest bulb.

than if Hillary had done so.
I get what you're saying and the reichwing is pond scum but I think as long as they didn't wear anything wildly inappropriate it wouldn't be a sign of disrespect.
Just my .02

It's not about the pants.

It's not about the picture.

It's not about flushing the koran.

It's about our supporting Israel. It's about our bombing and killing their innocent families. It's about our ruthless drive to control their oil. Let's not kid ourselves. American foreign policy is what drives people to march in the streets, not whether the first lady wears pants or goes butt naked.

I'm not advocating going around disrespecting people. I'm advocating discussion of the actual issues, not the diversions.

I have not worn a dress in years and I do not ever intend to. I don't see a problem with her dress but the fact that she is over there is offensive to me. She adds nothing to the dialog. Just another rich lady looking at the destruction her destructive husband has brought on them.

I do understand what you mean though, one reason I will never be seen in a place that would dictate that kind of dress code.

I was welcome at a Ramadan feast with pants on. I guess it is a bit different here.

Sending a Stepford wife to represent our country is the REAL sign of disrespect-to us and the people of the other nations she visits.

The OP and many others are projecting Western dress codes onto other parts of the globe.

I think most Muslims would be more disturbed if she did not cover her head.

expect western women to cover their heads.
They realize it is their custom, not ours.

who are in Muslim countries, they seem to always cover their heads. I recently saw something, on Link TV, I think, American doctors working in Indonesia, and they all wore scarves. Probably just as a sign of respect, and perhaps they weren't actually expected to do so.

muslims force their women to wear the burqa, as did the taliban.
Many moderate muslim women may choose to wear it or not.
Women in Iraq (pre-Gulf War) had the same rights as men and dressed in western attire.

I do not think sending these two idiots will "help" our image but not because of the fact they're wearing pants.
Fundamentalist muslims will be insulted that we sent women and moderates may be insulted if we try to adapt their religious customs.

It's a lose/lose situation all the way around.

And as a female, I don't believe we should be forced to follow the muslim dress code.

This is all just MHO, of course.

and light clothing, otherwise, maybe even sleeveless. I think they do it because they are there to help the people medically or whatver, so they just try to blend in. Since they are there to perform a service, not make a political statement, I have no problem with that.

I do think that in many places Western women are not expected to conform to local dress codes at all. I'm not sure what I would do under the same circumstances--I hope someday I will be able to travel and learn these things for myself, but by then, it will be too dangerous to go anywhere, because they really will hate us.

It is generally a good idea to not draw unwelcome attention to yourself when you are abroad and if you are there on a humanitarian mission it would only be counterproductive to alienate the local people.

Let's give Mrs. * some credit.

At least she didn't show up in Dick Cheney's furry-hooded, puffy parka jacket.

Man, I still haven't gotten over that fashion nightmare.

Ol Dick looked like he was about to scale the Adirondacks. It would have been funny, if he hadn't been present at a somber Holocaust memorial service.

Nimrod.

I won't even touch the subject of her choice in men or parenting skills but I can't think of a single example of any of her initiatives that have been successful. Ok, so she smiles and pretends to care but did the Bush admin really think she had the diplomatic skills to repair the US image :shrug:?

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Here and there.

I can only assume you are commenting on Mrs. Bush's or Dr. Rice's appearance. I would expect that "progressive" conversation would focus on issues of more substance than whether you think a particular woman is attractive.

I agree that no woman should we forced to wear a burqha. I'm commenting on Pickles subservience to the Chimp and his evil agenda. The fristians would probably get all "their" wome wearing them in no time. Ms. Bush has been in the political fray for quite awhile. I remember her telling South Carolinians in the 2000 primaries that the Confederate flag controversy there was about heritage and not hate. She's deserving of contempt.

One should never assume....

:blush:

it. I don't think women in this country--and especially L. Bush or Dr. Rice-- need to change their dress habits just to appease some bigotted men in another country.

http://archive.salon.com/mwt/style/2001/04/16/dress_code/

It was a big deal to new Bush administration at the time and the RW had a field day hounding Hillary for wearing pants - even pant suits.

And it is not a matter of having biggoted men from another country telling our women how to dress. It is a matter of respect for other cultures and protocol which was a BIG DEAL to the RW. And if you recall the first photo ops of Condi, Karen, and Laura in the WH and at WH functions they were all wearing dresses or skirts or suits and the pundit made so much of how the dignity of the WH was being restored.

It's this hypocrisy that really annoys me.

I don't think most Muslims have problems with pants--it's the shorts and the tank tops the strict believers can't deal with. Just like some TX Dems can't deal with "sexy cheerleading."

as well as members of other socially conservative ethnic groups.

soon.

they are going to have a hard time with that.

or haven't you heard?

:sarcasm:

when she was getting off the plane. We are having big problems with how we treat muslim prisoners and the Koran (sp) story, etc. so would it have hurt to wear a skirt? Of course we are teaching them about democracy and of course you can wear pants where ever you are. Under the circumstances I feel she screwed up, so, no doubt those muslim countries will at least notice. Such a simple thing to wear a dress for crips sake, I hate em too but it isn't painful!

I don't know, at one time it was almost a must. But, I see it as something similar. Silly story, many years ago I went to NYC with a friend and decided to go inside St. Patricks cathedral and stood outside trying to tear the only scarf we had in two pieces so we could go in. It was a chore but we did it, then found out the place was locked. Everything else was open in NYC so why not the church.
Edit: Didn't take it as flame, it's an opinion, go for it.

HS were catholic and they never did. I don't remember their mothers doing it either, come to think of it.
This is a touchy subject for me, I loathe those two reptiles that pose as women but I cannot bring myself to criticize them for wearing pants because it enraged me when they did it to Hillary.

That said, kindasleazy's dominatrix outfit to visit the troops was just as inappropriate as darth cheney's wardrobe malfunction. :mad:

and I obviously am not above mutilating their names... :evilgrin:

and things have changed. The other side of this pants thing is I had mixed emotions about American women in muslim countries having to dress according to the local custom, in particular women in the military. But since Bush has screwed everything thing up since 9-11 she/he could at least make an attempt. People are dying because of the prison situation.

Although I think * sending his "women" to the ME during such a volatile time is insane.

That stupid move is what the muslim men may see as an insult.

What the hell can his wife do? She's barely conscious.
And his work wife is partially responsible for starting the war.

And they are going to help our image? :banghead:

culturally acceptable in this country, why no outcry when Laura or Condi wears pants on official visits to countries where it is NOT culturally acceptable. That's my main point.

They made such a fuss about Hillary down to calling the Clinton's "trailer trash" Rush made fun of her hip in pants (called her "robo
hips"), talked about how the Clinton's demeaned the office of President and the WH etc. Coming into office Bush put out a directive that no more women wearing pants to official meetings or events in the WH and was applauded by the RW for doing it (I am looking for a link-probably scrubbed by now). It's a small thing but indicative of the kind of disrespect for other cultures this administration has shown since they came into office in 2000. And not to mention the hypocrisy of it all!

Just google: Muslim women pants.

But don't let the facts get in the way of a good rousing rant, I always say.

Let's do to them the same thing they did to Hillary, it's only fair.
:sarcasm:

I can find plenty of valid reasons to bash everyone in this administration and if they dress or act inappropriately in public, since they are representing this country, I say they are fair game, but this is not the case here.

is the worst possible insult to the entire world.

It seems there is no end to the shame.

St Pat's is open all day long..perhaps at some point it closed earlier in the evening during the crack/crime epidemic, but it's a major tourist site as well as a very active church with masses all day long.

Catholic women wore something on their heads in church at one point. I think that changed in the sixties. I don't think you would have been ushered out of the church if you had gone in without a scarve on. If it was a local parish, an old lady would probably have frowned on you. Were you reacting to a sign? (Since the church was closed.)


Going into a religious building isn't exactly the same as walking down the street or going into a store, IMO, in terms of what you wear. I would not wear shorts for example to any sort of religious service of any faith in the US. Fundamentalist muslims want the women covered up everywhere they go. That's quite a bit different.

And yes it was evening but don't remember the time. I was young and naive and completely impressed with NYC (was from Calif) and we tried to do as much as possible in one day. Empire State Bldg. type stuff on Very little money. We even tried to get a bus to go through Greenwich (sp) Village but couldn't find one.

When I saw L wearing the pants suit I felt like she was showing that country that she was a "freed" woman and was going to show them how to act. Those thoughts come from this whole admin. control issue. Wish someone had the conversation L had with reporter there as I saw a clip on tv of the interview and it wasn't impressive. In other words if they were showiing the choiciest parts she stepped in it again, runs in the family. Hope she didn't tell her horse joke. Oh, they did ask her about what the Pres. thought about not being notified about the red alert at the WH. She said she thought he should have been told.

You are so right! LOL!
That would be about what we could expect from the royal family.
I would pay to have a reporter ask her to explain that one.
:evilgrin:

After Vatican II, everyone got the idea that covering the head, like not eating meat on Fridays, was a thing of the past. But hats and gloves for women were suddenly out of style soon after Vatican II also, which I think is a shame. I still wear hats and gloves sometimes; it's just a fun, feminine thing to do, especially now that we aren't required to wear them everywhere! We have discussed this recently in the Catholic group, as some of us have read that Canon law still says that women should cover their heads in church. Next time I see him, I'm going to ask a Canon lawyer who sometimes says Mass in my parish about this.

I know that we are still supposed to do some sort of penance on all Fridays but most have gotten out of the habit. (Most nuns have gotten out of the habit and into civilian clothes, too, but that's another story.) The idea behind not eating meat on Friday was to save a bit of money and give it to the poor.

one of the other ways Bushies could stay in power. Gack!

edit: typo

why she was wearing pants on a vist to muslim countries.

and behave while in an Arab city? I seem to remember a big stink not so long ago about how military women were being discriminated against by making them cover themselves before going off base anywhere and also they always had to be accompanied by a man. I would think Condi would have to follow the same policy as the rest of the women in the military. Maybe that ruling is no longer in effect.

During the first gulf war women soldiers and officers were forced to wear muslim dress and to follow all of the other customs; no driving, not leaving base without covering their face and head and always with a male escort.
Many people were enraged, including myself, when it was learned that it was not the Kuwaiti government nor religious leaders that insisted women abide by these restrictions, it was OUR MILITARY.

:mad:

But I believe that was only enforced during that time period.

I am sure Halliburton would have been more than happy to supply a copy for a reasonable price.

so what else is new?

I still don't understand your point about pants. I say fuck the fundies, both here and abroad. I really don't care what someone wears and the fundy clerics in Islam should get over it. Woman traveling there should be respectful of their culture (don't wear a tank top or daisy dukes), but why should a non Muslim woman be forced to wear a headscarf or some other garment not according to her traditions?

After all, we allow the freedom for Muslim women to wear a headscarf because it's the right thing to do. They should allow the same freedom.

a true liberal sir.
Thank you.

I had to do it...

:spank:

ashamed of yourself!

But my mother loves me. :)

women wearing pants but you're quite right that the RW hounded Hillary about wearing pants and have ignored Laura's bad taste in clothes (ugly colors, clothes that are too tight, etc.) Haven't noted any media or RW comment about her facelift, either. Nor do they have anything negative to say about the twins, despite the nasty things that were said about Chelsea, who was never arrested for underage drinking or photographed in compromising positions. Hypocrisy is primarily a RW sport.

points were to cover the legs and cover the arms, and wear a scarf, or have one available. She wore a beautiful long-sleeved long tunic over pants with a scarf. It was something I could have easily worn. Modesty was the issue, and that included covering the arms and legs.