do you know any "Ex-gays"?

I don't

In fact, I was at a bar with a lesbian friend one night and a fairly handsome looking fellow walked up to me and told me I had very pretty eyes.
I said, "Sorry - I'm straight."

He said, "I used to think I was straight too..."

So I responded, "Yeah- I used to think I was gay... I know what you mean."

So I guess I pretended to be an "ex-gay"... does that count?

PS: I see them all the time on Pat Robertson's counselling site...

when I met her, she was in the waning stages of a ten year lesbian relationship, but other than the hassles of the breakup, she seemed OK. She was witty, had fun making people laugh, and her music cheered everyone who heard it. She and I even went into the studio together to record a song that we presented as a Christmas gift to my fiance (who I met her through).

Right after her breakup with her girlfriend, she started becoming "straight". She even asked me for advice on dating guys, and we became such close friends that her family thought that she and I were an item, as my fiance was finishing her education in Boston.

She found a nice guy, who was raising his own kids, and they started living together. They married the week after we did, and he even got his vasectomy reversed so they could have their own kids, something she desperately wanted.

During the pregnancies, she changed radically, and several times tried to take her own life. Her husband would try to seek some solace in me as a friend, and I can confirm that there was nothing he could possibly have done to be a better spouse. They were religious fundamentalists, but always completely unafraid to put up Democratic campaign signs on the lawn of their house in a backwoods town.

She's grown sullen and withdrawn, and the last time I saw her about a year ago, she wouldn't even speak to me, even though he would. Yes, I divorced the woman who was (and is) her friend, but there are many reasons that she should have shown me some loyalty as a friend, I went just as many times to visit her in the psych ward of the big city hospital where she was a frequent "guest".

In conclusion, I think she felt great family pressure to go straight, do the whole Ozzie and Harriet thing, and it finally killed the life out of her. It's made a mess for her stepkids, her own two children, and her husband. I think she'd have been happier with another woman, as long as she would have been able to have children.

Just my observations of one lone case, your mileage may vary.

She would have been an awful lot better off with you.

But I imagine you have thought of that.

PPD.

Certainly during her pregancies, her moods would swing around like a pendulum on steroids. That can be dangerous for bystanders, because she's a Black Belt Karate instructor, had her own studio behind the house.

But the previous poster is wrong, I don't think she would have been better off with me. She wasn't my type, even if she was and had always been exclusively heterosexual, but we were great friends. I just think she tried too hard to buy into the heterosexual lifestyle, thinking that it was necessary to be in a heterosexual relationship in order to become a good mother. I remember her own mother's sweet tears of joy at the wedding, I could imagine a LOT of pressure to be straight coming down from that woman.

After a series of failed relationships with women, in my late 20s, I met a very wonderful guy and tried to be "straight" for a while. Turned out badly for us both, and I brought him a lot of pain to learn that lesson for myself.

I've never been much to cow to society's pressures, but sometimes it can be overwhelming.

n/t

in fact, i am one!

Who the hell needs a self-loathing brainwashed idiot in their life?

Imagine having someone in your life who has to delude his or herself every single day that, by golly, I "changed" and "I'm cured!"...knowing perfectly well that you can't change your sexual orientation. Imagine the pressure they must have to deal with...an "ex-gay" man who sees some beautful man walking down the street...and how he must banish thoughts of attraction entirely...because, once again....he's "cured". What a sad, sad existence that must be.

I also suspect that a lot of "ex-gay" people must dealing with this via alcohol or drugs.

of their sexuality in their 30s -- to identify as bi, or gay or lesbian.

They're very serious about their religion and their religion tells them that homosexuality is against God.

It's very sad becasue they're both wonderful people and I wish that they could feel good about themselves and who they are.

but not so much the other way around. I don't rule out that it could happen- I think human sexuality is a lot more flexible than we realize.

But I don't think someone can be counseled or pressured to change their basic orientation; the capacity for bisexuality has to be there already.

Both are now happily married heterosexuals
with no interest whatever in homosexuality.
These are people I know well.
I cannot explain it.

...they think about gay sex. They're not fooling anyone.

I see them four times a year.
We drink wine and talk candidly, as we always have.
I don't doubt that they recall the past,
but they profess no interest whatever in homosexuality.
Life comes in many forms.

...the same thing.

I simply don't believe it's possible to "turn off" sexual attraction. It's probably why ex-gays have an EXTREMELY high recidivism rate.

Even the founders of Exodus ended up becoming lovers.

it.

After all, they have a vested interest in promoting the illusion.

I don't believe it for a second.

At the most they are "bi" and supressing their "gay" urges.

It's a shame that one has to be "pegged" into one or the other - who cares?!?!

The important thing is if they are truly and genuinely happy.

And the most important thing is, once they make a choice of a partner, that they remain true to the relationship, whatever they choose.

But one is born gay, straight or bi - one does not wake up one day and "choose". Coming to a realization that one is living a lie, yes. But a choice? - No.

Terror. Fear of hell.

They're not "happily" anything, they're just faking it. I know one man (an acquaintance of a neighbor who occasionally shows up) who has been brainwashed by a fundy pentecostal church into "renouncing" his homosexuality, and few people I know are more fucked up than him.

He overcompensates with religious extremism, for one thing. I don't remember he doing anything in a conversation other that trying to convert people.

I am straight, always have been.
A desire for gay sex has never crossed my mind.
I wonder if this is true of most straight people.

a conscious decision for me. More on a instinctual chemical level. I've always just assumed it was biological hardwiring.

Of course I've always had a low opinion of men, an interesting paradox, being male myself.

Excuse the cliche, I may be a lesbian trapped in a mans body. :9

but you are under 30?

It is just as likely that your friends never actually were gay to begin with... just confused.
Every scrap of empirical data and subjective disclosure reveals that one is essentially born with innate sexual tendencies.
You are what you are.

I knew when I was 4 years old and surrounded by little girls in ballet class that there was something 'right' about that.
(I was the only boy in the class... and probably the only boy that didn't run when the girls tried to kiss me. ;))

I can think about being with a man without recoiling, but the thought does very little for me. I think of women and go through profound physiological responses.

A 'desire for gay sex' does not go through my mind, just as a 'desire for straight sex' does not go through the mind of someone who is strictly attracted to the sae sex.

Your friends are fooling themselves, or you are trying to fool others... maybe even yourself.

I would refer you to an earlier post where the author states that human sexuality may be a far more flexible thing than we think.

people who have foremerly been in homosexual relationships that are now in heterosexual relationships. I'm one of them. I think for a lot of people who have experienced both desires it's not a matter of "picking one and changing their mind", it's a matter of simply being open to being with both sexes.

They have been together 15 years, got married in Vermont and SF . One is 100% gay,claims to have had hetero sex ONCE..and MY friend always said that sex was great with BOTH.....He just fell in love with a man.

I agree with many above...I don't think it's black & white..I think sexuality is much more complex if not constrained by the pressures of society to conform into a little box.

There have been several articles written recently at the increase in heterosexual anal sex. (both ways).......I think people just like to experiment that does not mean they are gay.

he used to identify as gay, she as lesbian -- who hooked up and eventually married. I think most of us identify ourselves as gay or straight and then decide who we choose as a partner. I think some others, however, just look for the right person regardless of sex.

I know a bi-sexual who chooses not to have sex with males anymore... does that count?
(He got married to a nice girl, and now has sex with her only...)

We used to go out. He was the president of a fraternity here and I'd go there occasionally and spend the night, meet some of the other closet boys. I liked the secret naughtiness of it all. But once he was very candid about his plans to one day get married to a woman and raise a litter o' kids, live in a house with a white picket fence, and all that. I was secretly crushed but also somewhat baffled by his casual attitude. he didn't acknowledge anything strange or out of the ordinary about his dream, didn't seem to think there'd be problems. It was very strange and I still think about it to this day. He was most definitely not bi, he was very very gay. Don't ask me how it all turned out as it is sad.

She had been married, to apparently not the best guy. Not abusive or anything, but he was Indian and sort of a traditionalist. Anyway they had a daughter, but divorced. She then got into a ten year relationship with another woman. They lived together and her partner helped raise her daughter. They owned a house together, and were a great couple. We are related to her sort of convolutedly, but considered them good friends and family.

Then, seemingly suddenly, she declared she wasn't gay and broke up with her partner. They remained good friends, and even continued living together for awhile till her partner could find a new place.

We're still close with both, and generally have both at our thanksgiving dinner. They're good friends, the partner is still lesbian. I've become closer with her over time and we've talked about it before, how this woman could be gay for 10 years then just not be. Neither one of us gets it but hey...we don't judge.

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Does that answer your question?

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Do you "prefer" to have sex with the opposite gender or is it that you have no sexual attraction to members of the same gender?

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If you believe that homosexuality is a matter of choice, then there are no straight, bi, or gay babies.

If you believe sexuality is a result of genetic hardwiring, then yes, babies are born gay, straight, or bi.

I don't think science has come down definitively one way or the other. Speaking from experience, I know I was NEVER attracted to the opposite sex. So I believe it's genetic.

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Come on, how can you say if a baby is straight or gay?

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Surely you aren't saying that attraction and gravitation toward a particular gender as being attractive is something that only kicks in during adolescence?

Sexual behavior is more than just about the act of intercourse. It encompasses the spectrum of emotional attraction as well.

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The bottom line is whether or not you are hardwired from birth with your eventual sexual orientation.

If you believe babies are a tubula rasa just waiting to be written upon, that of course is your believe.

I believe that certain characteristics such as eventual sexual orientation and gender association are hardwired. What the Discovery Channel sometime about how transexuals felt all there life, even before "sexual feelings" became an issue in their lives. Most say they have always felt they were "trapped" in the wrong body all their lives.

Human beings are not born asexual and sexual behavior isn't just about the act of sexual intercourse or even sexual attraction, but also in how you act, play, learn, etc...

You don't believe boys and girls are different from birth in more than just organs? If you do believe they are different, that's a sexual (or gender if you find that term less confusing) difference.

...there are many many gay and straight people who can tell you that their first crush occurred years before puberty. Orientation doesn't necessarily infer sexual intercourse.

I don't understand why people have a hard time believing that not everything is environmental. Is it really so difficult to believe that a child would be born already hardwired for a particular sexual orientation?

I was born with a high tendency to words being an alcoholic, to that end I avoid the drink (because as we all agree being a drunk is bad). Why must homosexual tendencies be any differed? There are people who would be straight no matter what, and there are people who if exposed to certain stimuli would be gay.

Before we can even talk about such issues we need to get stuff like this out of the way..

and she's 7 months old.

It's not like she doesn't like women, she likes everyone. But boys...she can just tell they are boys. She makes noises to get their attention, and gets sort of giggly and flirty with them.

She particularly likes men with beards like her daddy.

If my daughter is apparently a straight baby, it's only reasonable that there could be gay babies.

maybe whatever causes someone to be gay exists when babies are born, maybe not. Does it matter?

knuckledragging bigot babies? Bigotry is a choice.

:wow:

Quero saber quem era. :D

Doesn't mean they're ex-gays, though. Human nature is complicated.

... who began dating women after I graduated and eventually got married. We stayed in touch for a while until he told me about his plans to "be straight" and I remember reacting with anger and hurt. I think the last thing I said to him was that I felt like I'd been treated "like the last gas station on the road to heterosexuality."

About 10 years later he managed to track my down and my phone rang in the middle of the night. It was him calling and he sounded more than a little drunk. Anyway, he apologized profusely and told me his whole marriage had been a sham. He had since divorced his wife and lost custody of his daughter.

He made plans to come visit me - for support, rather than to try to pick up where we left off - but then abruptly changed plans at the last minute. He also changed his phone number, so I have no idea what happened with him or whether he went back to faking "heterosexuality."

I do know that he told me he had been absolutely miserable trying to be something he wasn't throughout his marriage.

I've known some bisexuals who at different times in their lives were more attracted to the same sex or the opposite sex. Some who only dated same-sex years ago but now have opposite-sex partners--and vice versa).

I do believe very much that orientation/attraction is hard-wired in and the arousal response is basically involuntary (though of course we can and do choose which responses to act on).

But there are people with some degree of choice in which kind of relationship to pursue, I suppose, and those people are bisexual. I suspect that's what most of these "ex-gay" Christian talk show types really are, and there'd be a lot less pain in the world if they were honest about it.

Has been hinting around for a year or so that she wants to try boys. I also know lesbians who don't consider men to be cheating. It's a weird world. I don't think gay and straight and bi really cover all the odd types out there.

she ended up sleeping with her female therapist.

0- Exclusively heterosexual

1- Predominantly heterosexual, only incidentally homosexual

2- Predominantly heterosexual, but more than incidentally homosexual

3- Equally heterosexual and homosexual

4- Predominantly homosexual, but more than incidentally heterosexual

5- Predominantly homosexual, only incidentally heterosexual

6- Exclusively homosexual

Where do you fall?

You are either 100% gay or 100% straight, and there is no choice involved in the matter!

If you have ever felt the slightest attraction towards a person of the same sex, but then marry a person of the opposite sex, you are a hypocrite!

:sarcasm:


Seriously, though - I think it's perfectly normal for a person to seemingly "switch" orientations, since so many people do fall near the middle of the scale, and their needs change as life goes on.

I think the Christian "ex-gay" movement is a sham, but only because their reasons for "switching" are all wrong. First and foremost is their assumption that there is something "wrong" with being gay. They need to get out of any sicko church that tells them that. It's not right to tell people that a perfectly normal attraction is dirty.

Repressing a part of your sexuality because you think God doesn't like it will only lead to frustration and unhappiness.

And trying to have an intimate relationship with a person of the opposite sex if you truly are a "6" on the Kinsey scale and have no attraction to the opposite sex whatsoever is just as much of a road to misery. I guess people like David Drier and Lindsey Graham just fill the void with tons of money and furtive encounters with hustlers...

But if you are indeed near the middle of the scale, and have a healthy acceptance of ALL your sexual feelings, and no bugaboos about sex based on religious superstition, there is no reason why a person couldn't "change teams".


It strikes me as so ironic that people who are ostensibly "pro gay rights" claim that "it's never a choice" and that "nobody would want to choose this" - as though it was something so horrible. Yes, society's reaction to homosexuality is not always positive, and can be downright brutal, but as a bisexual person, I've enjoyed every facet of sex, and I consider homosexuality every bit as good and valid a "choice" as heterosexuality. And it really is a choice. Each individual has to weigh all the competing factors - how strong their attraction is to either gender, how good they feel being intimate with either gender, what their priorities are in terms of the kind of family they want to have, if any. There is no one-size-fits-all answer for everybody, and that's what the crowd who say "We were born this way, so stop ragging on us, Churches!" always seem to forget.

I swear, if there were a blood test you could take to detect it, some of these folks would want to make it mandatory so we could send all the "positives" to re-education camps so they could be forced to "properly adjust to their orientation".


Stop trying to pigeonhole everybody! Stop judging people and let them live their lives as they please!

I went to an after opening night of Cabaret and I saw all this men I hadn't seen in a long time, now in their 50's - gay and giddie grandfathers. Yes when they were young, many tried the straight route, had children then came out eventually. I've never seen such a proud group of grand-dads...

I don't know anybody who foolishly tried to go straight. They are what they are and have never wavered.

I don't know any 'ex-straights' either...every gay I know was gay from birth.

not a single one.

Many people mistake bisexuality for homosexuality, especially in ther high school years. It is my opinion that bisexuality does not exist at all, but rather it is a feeling of security with their own sexuality; these people favor having sex with one gender, but will not limit themselves to any one gender. Why should we limit ourselves simply because we have not claimed "bisexuality?" This is why I know many people who were "gay" but then realized that they were merely secure with their own sexuality.

And only professed bisexuals are secure enough to admit it? I suppose it's possible, but since I've only been me, I have no way to evaluate.

But I've always been dismayed by men who claim that the very idea of another guy in a sexual situation is revolting (okay, I can understand if it was like, Charles Krauthammer, but...) and the same thing with gay men who say they are completely grossed out by women (genitalia in particular). I just don't get it. To me, beautiful people are beautiful and attractive, regardless of gender.

I am not saying that everyone is bi. I am saying that bisexuality does not exist.

Are they just liars, or are you saying that it's a normal thing and you're just calling bisexuality by another name?

I am not calling bisexuality by anyother name. I am merely saying that it does not exist. This attraction that people feel, however natural, is truly becoming at one with your sexuality. That's how i'm looking at it.

It's amazing how many women I knew in my 20s who were "Bi-Sexual." Now nearly all of them are married, I don't think one of them settled down with a woman.

There is probably some meaning behind this, but I don't know what it is.

experimented with lesbianism, especially in the climate of the early feminist movement, which had a concept known as "political lesbianism," making a conscious decision to avoid men. (That never made much sense to me. Either it was a cop-out for women who were actually lesbian by orientation or a misguided experiment by women who thought they ought to be lesbian but really weren't.)

Most of these women gave up the experimentation and ended up in relationships with men. But I'd say that they were at the most bisexual in their earlier years, not genuine lesbians.

in my circle, there are plenty of folks who are celibate by choice and doing fine with that. we live happy, outward-focused lives. that includes some people whose inclinations might have been more same-gender as well as people (like me) who are clearly hetero.

but i don't consider these friends "ex"-gays. they will probably be attracted to people of the same sex, just as i'll be attracted to people of the opposite sex, for all of their lives. they've just made a decision not to act on that, because they value something else more. as a woman, i'm closer with women in this situation, but i currently know at least one guy from such a background too.

human experience is quite varied.

Human sexuality isn't a binary, carved in granite situation, at least not with some people. I've known more than a few dyed in the flannel lesbians who met the right person for them, who happened to be male, and they got married. Quite happy and content they are.

I also know more than a few guys who happened to meet the right person, also male, and they've settled down into a happy relationship.

Sexuality isn't an either/or situation. It runs a whole spectrum, and we each fit somewhere along that. And quite frankly, if you meet the right person of either sex, then there is going to be attraction, spiritually, mentally, and physically.

Does that mean that there is no such thing as "gay at birth"? No, of course not. We've seen too many instances of that to discount it. Nor does it somehow demean the GLBT community. Whether a person is born gay, or chooses, for whatever reason to be gay, they are entitled to all of the rights and privleges of our society, because first and foremost, they are a human being.

Peace.


www.missionnotaccomplished.us - Be it MNA Day 4 or 8 or 15 or .... the day will come when 10s of millions of Americans and others stop their typical activities for 24 hours and urge 10 times that many to join should another MNA Day be required. On that glorious day what we once called "America" will emerge.

For years afterwards, she was quite bitter. She has since remarried.

I also know gay people who married and then came out, or who entered hetrosexual relationships and then came out.

i am going to adopt this question for people i talk with

it about says it all

:shrug:
:dilemma:
:think: :sarcasm: :hide:

either-or proposition, and I agree with that. For example, I don't think Ann Heche was a lesbian who went straight. I think she was a person not on the extreme ends of the spectrum who fell in love, out of love and in love again with people of different genders.

I hope this makes sense! :-)

but I know lots of ex-hetrosexuals. ;-)

aside from catholic priests.

1. People who through their own personal evolution realized that it wasn't their cup of tea, that they were bisexual to begin with and settle down with a person of the opposite sex. They are accepting and honest with themselves and others about who they are and were, and don't see homosexuality as bad or something to disavow.


2. People who, in an attempt to conform to their nutty religion or a homophobic society, repress their true feelings, often with the aid of elaborate brainwashing techniques that do nothing to make them well-balanced and accepting of their true sexuality, and settle down with a person of the opposite sex, often with tragic results.