Report from Iraq

My son is in a local Boy Scout troop. For last week's meeting, the Scoutmaster invited his boss, who had just returned from 14 months in Iraq (he is a Naval reserve guy), to come and speak to our troop.

Well, I didn't particularly want to attend the meeting (being afraid I would have a hard time keeping my mouth shut), but I did see the last 30 minutes of the commander's presentation to these young Scouts. Boys asked him about food, spiders, throwing up, sandstorms, and a myriad of questions on other subjects.

The commander was about 37 years old and the father of five. He had to leave his wife to raise the children while he was gone. During his entire presentation, a PowerPoint presentation of pictures the guy took in Iraq was running and showing behind him. When I first arrived, the pictures were of men, equipment, sleeping soldiers, etc.

All of a sudden, the pictures changed. Gone were grinning, dirty solders and dusty equipment. One picture showed a man burning to death beneath a vehicle that had exploded. The next picture was of a child bleeding to death as soldiers held him with his arm blown off. Another picture was of a child chemically burned and covered in vomit. Each picture was more gruesome than the one before.

One of the parents said something, and the commander coolly responded, "Yep, there is some pretty rough stuff in there," but he made no move to turn off the projector. Still the images rolled as the soldier focused on the Scouts' questions. Finally, a particularly horrible picture rolled by, and one of the parents shouted, "Turn it off!! Turn it off!!" as we all sat mesmerized by the untold horror we had witnessed if only on film.

The commander slowly went to the projector and shut it off. I'm the only Dem in our Scout troop. Sorry, but I had a tremendous sense of satisfaction knowing these pubs would have some serious questions to answer from their children on the way home from the troop meeting that evening.

I approached the commander and told him that I really appreciated his coming to our meeting. I also told him that I have two young friends who are Marines. The commander asked me how long a hitch they had signed up for, for whatever it was, it was unlikely they would be coming home on time, as things have worsened and even more of the troops are being required to return.

This commander also said that the soldiers arm their own vehicles and that the body armor has been slow in coming. None in his group had any. They spent time going through blown up buildings, vehicles, etc., looking for metal they can weld onto their transport vehicles.

And this, folks, is a real report from the front line. This guy was honest and has 17 years of service to the nation. He is not a happy camper.

That is incredibly scary. What a horrific experience that must be.

:mad: :mad: :mad:

Begins the truth,

Last week, these pictures came back to the U.S. from a Naval commander. It wasn't until a picture of a little girl on fire from an American bomb in Vietnam made prime time news did the antiwar effort really start to take off.

Last week, young protestors were hurt and arrested in Houston for rallying against Halliburton. It wasn't until the shootings at Kent State of collegiate protestors that politicians really began to understand the need to get out of Vietnam.

Why have we learned nothing?

support the troops to tell the truth because many are, and many more will.
We have to make sure they have outlets to be heard.

who have the moxy to speak truth to power!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3711043

As if it was that easy.

I can't stand my own reflection.

Every night he or she goes to bed with those images replaying over and over in their minds.

They will return to their family, withdrawn, colder, dehumanized from the war. Because to survive it, you have to dehumanize it.

their own way. And he might really be getting some heat for showing these pictures to children. It gladdens me and frightens me because I'm pretty sure that the Bushistas sense this opposition, too, and that they're going to do something. And it won't be nice.

-----------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

The parents and the children should see every fucking bit of the gore.
Iraqi's can not close their eyes to it, they have live with and so should we.
This Commander is and excellent person, his way trying to get the truth out. Thank you for posting this, it is good to know what really goes on.



A man cries out over his brother's body at Yarmouk hospital, after Maj. Gen. Wael al-Rubaei, director of the National Security Ministry's operations room, and his driver were assassinated by two carloads of gunmen in a drive-by shooting on their way to work, in Baghdad's Mansour district in Iraq Monday, May 23, 2005. (AP Photo/Mohammed Uraibi)

They can all run off to Walmart and buy a plastic trivet to alleviate the pain.

to, run to Walmart !
:puke:




A man cries out over his brother's body at Yarmouk hospital, after Maj. Gen. Wael al-Rubaei, director of the National Security Ministry's operations room, and his driver were assassinated by two carloads of gunmen in a drive-by shooting on their way to work, in Baghdad's Mansour district in Iraq Monday, May 23, 2005. (AP Photo/Mohammed Uraibi)

that I can't believe those brain-dead repukes learned anything from this commander. I envision them getting back into their SUVs and explaining to their sons that whatever horrific pictures they saw, it was all worth it because Saddam is no longer in power.

They have to see pictures remember. And more than once. They don't know the reality. I hope those pictures burn in their mind like pictures I've seen.

years, when their little boy scouts are about to be drafted, they'll remember this and know what they're being set up for.

Because we will still be there, in all probability.

My officemate has a 10 year old (or so) boy. She hasn't been gung-ho about the war, but she's said some pretty stupid stuff. Such as "we needed to flex some muscle." It's way down the road, but if her son is ever to be drafted, half of me would want to ask her if she wanted her son to do the flexing. The other half of me says that's way too cruel.

...*'s half-assed neoconservative joyride through the Mid-East is my nine-year old nephew, so that in a few years HE won't be drafted to clean up the mess Chim-Chim left everyone else with.

I think she appreciates now that the war was wrong.

I hope to God it won't be necessary. I hope we'll be out of Iraq by then.

...chim chim...

<splutter>

BAAAAHGHGAHAHHAHAHAH!

who is a real bushler, about her 20yr old who just lost his job. asked if he was thinking of enlisting ( he had been at one time ).

got NO answer on that!

when i ask my other friends that question, i either get an uncomfortable laugh, or " not MY grandson! ". " Then whose? ", I ask.

I figure that at least some of them are the type of people who say shit like, "Yeah, but sometimes to do the right thing you have to pay a price" or "There are always sacrifices in war"

Interesting coming from people who won't actually sign up to defend the country, as they say this invasion is doing.

And I wonder how they will feel if one of their Boy Scouts is sent off to war and winds up in one of these pictures?

Is it still "acceptible losses"?

reported the War in Iraq and Afghanistan in a real manner perhaps the Bush Fascist Regime would not be in power today.

We need to get rid of all of these assholes, and we will.

because the journalists told the truth to the American people and the American people "lost the will to continue."

So now the journalists are censored. Problem solved, as far as the militarists are concerned.

I'm glad that some of the vets are coming back to show their neighbors what war is really like.

I betcha they were hoping he'd spout some patriotism bullcrap but were surprised to recieve this.

That is why I didn't want to go listen. I had an undue prejudice that proved groundless (as most prejudices do). I saw a man who loved his country enough to serve for 17 years and yet didn't agree with this war.

Now . . . then . . .

If all those repuke hypocrites INCLUDING THE SHRUB out there who have the little yellow ribbons will kindly give their sons and daughters to serve as this man has done instead of the empty "attaboys" . . .

Well, hell, the war would be over tomorrow.

I don't know what can turn a 17 year veteran into a traitor like that. :sarcasm:

It's good to hear that the Boy Scouts are having the opportunity to see pictures like that. Better than to wait until they are over there to see it.


I have a nephew who was injured in in Fallujah who is going back soon - on some kind of large boat - sounds like a start-up of something (I hope not). I hate to even know.

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Recently there was a thread from someone who's child's teacher had put up military recruiting posters in a junior high school classroom! If the military wants to start brainwashing our children that young, we have the duty to counter it in any way possible. They want to show the 'glamor' of war? Then we show the graphic reality of war. They also need to hear that our government doesn't provide our soldiers with adequate protection. They need to see that our government talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk.

Shame on the parents who insisted the presentation be shut off. What is it about the horror of war that you do not want your child to see? Or could it be that confronting the shame of crimes your country is committing, based on lies, is what you really don't want to face?

Kudos to this courageous man for speaking the truth.

On the one hand, I am inclined to let reality be reality. On the other, I don't want them "desensitized to it." Yes, I'm one of those mean moms who doesn't let her children spend a lot of time in front of the television or video games. When they inevitably encounter horror I want them to experience the full emotional impact. If that sounds barbaric, so be it. At least they won't be numb.

I've seen pictures of the aftermath of a hurricane and I've been present for the reality. They cannot possibly compare. So I guess another concern is that while photographs can be disturbing, sometimes they do a disservice to the full extent of the tragedy.

Like I said. I'm torn.

It is doing a favor to our kids! Better they learn now why war is terrible and to be avoided, rather than glorified. It's a bitch to learn it when you're seventeen! Those lessons are for keeps. Teach the children that war is obscene, not sex and nudity...

without photographs in a manner that does not glorify it? Can parents express their opposition to war without having to resort to horrifying photos?

express your opposition to war without resorting to horrifying photographs. It won't work nearly so well, especially not with boys. Boys/men are (generally) more visual/tactile learners.

I also wrestled with whether to show my boys(8 and 15) these pictures
http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/wounded/gallery.htm
especially since their oldest brother is a soldier in Iraq.Kids aren't dumb,and they look at things with an honest objectivity that adults lack.I want them to be prepared(as best as is possible) for the fact that their brother may be hurt or killed.I also want them to be strongly opposed to this war,and take no chance of either of them making the same mistake their brother did.

Otherwise, I don't care for gore all that much; but when it comes
to war, you need to call a spade a spade.

Mine are 8 and under. If they were pre-teens and teenagers it would be an entirely different story.

hammer in the horrors of war.

It is disgusting business. I would be leery of exposing a small child to it, I would expect a parent to know the proper time. I would definitely say it should get equal time with recruiters in our schools. Something like the warning on a pack of cigarettes. "Warning: War is hazardous to your health as well as that of other living things", etc...

before I even went to school, so I was really young. If anything it made me less likely to agree with a war, having a good idea of the death and destruction it leads to.

I grew up being shielded from Vietnam war coverage because my dad shipped off to Vietnam 16 days after I was born. Made it back, but my parents did not want my sister and I to see coverage of it. I remember the channel being turned when I was 5-6. I remember my mom cringing when I listened to the evacuation of Saigon in April 1975.

My parents were vehemently anti-war (even my veteran dad) and their sentiments rubbed off on me even without graphic photos. I have never once considered war glorious or admirable. It has always been representative of human failure and the worst we can inflict upon our fellow men, women and children.

to see this footage had exactly the opposite effect than they wanted on me. I am sure they are gung ho Chimpy supporters and totally support the Iraq debacle. So these kids seeing this footage may help create the next generation of Dems.

I remember as a child looking at the Vietnam pictures in Life magazine and on the news at night that my parents were watching and being so terrified that I consciously stopped looking at both. I think it is too traumatic for a child. It gave me night terrors - I thought a nuclear bomb was going to go off.

they don't need that and destroying their innocence will not bring back the innocence of the Iraqi and Afghani children. :(

many more people would be outraged and there would be "an exit strategy". The corporate media is in cahoots with junior and co. As they say, no news is good news.

I'm glad this commander have the balls to give these boys a good dose of reality.

I think America is going to hear a lot more of this stuff when they finally start letting our guys come home. Which should be conveniently a few months before the 06 elections.

I forwarded this link(from another thread) to everyone I know...These soldiers need our support.
http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/wounded/gallery.htm

There are some gruesome pictures there. Poor guys. All of this is so wrong.

I'm surprised he showed those photo's with little children there. I wonder how this will effect them on down the road. I'm glad he was honest though and I wish there was something to do for them with DC and getting protection. We've been there for over two years and they still have no protection?!

The youngest was 11, the oldest 17. My guess was that he felt that the kids were old enough to see things that could make them count their blessings here in the U.S. (for now).

No protection still for this guy's group. I read today that some of the body armor going over wouldn't stop a 9mm shell, so the stuff is not being delivered to the troops. Hmm. Wonder which military contractor was cutting corners for profit?

to do what he did. These kids will most likely think twice before signing up.


:nuke:

all the way around.

I did the same thing for my local troop and for a high school where I used to teach, minus the graphic photos. The kids, even 16-17 year old kids don't need to see that kind of violence. Bad enough if they enlist and get to see it for real...

I've got over 27 years in the service and I've always tried to use my travels to show culture, people etc...but the kids don't need that kind of violence. Speaking out and telling them the reality is as far as I'll go. You have to know your audience too...

My eldest son goes before his Eagle Board this Thursday night and my youngest son has just finished his Tenderfoot rank. Scouting is important in our house, but my kids will not be in the military if I can help it....Partially because "Dad is gone all the time," and because Mom and Dad don't want them to serve, too many other options out there, and they are not interested in the military....rambling here....oh well....

Hooray for him. But I wonder if he couldn't have made his point without going to such extremes. Those were children in the room.

Not that I'd spare the parents. They deserve it.

tax money is funding.

It's not all yippe yi yay, glory and conquest.

It's blood, death, carnage and destruction'

This is NOT a video game.

And Americans need to see what is real

Last year in the required sophomore course they read "All Quiet on the Western Front." I've heard from folks who taught the class that they felt the horrors of war as depicted there are absent from today's modern "clean" wars.

http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/wounded/gallery.htm

it isn't like a Boy Scout camp out in the woods. It's real people, in real time, having to kill or be killed. It isn't pretty, in fact it's disgusting, horrible and gruesome.

I'm glad this man had the guts to portray war as it really is, not like some glamorized recruiting film.

I'm sure some parents had a very hard time accepting this themselves, let alone their children. Children are very curious and they'll ask a lot of questions about this representation. I only hope the parents can separate their own political beliefs from the truth.

don't get it. I started looking at Civil War photos of the dead and wounded when I was about 6 years old. Saw everything that was on TV about Nam during my teenage years. I never censored my son from seeing the effects of war. Why are children so overly protected from the real world today?

My parents had a book of the Civil War photos, plus a book of photos of Hiroshima. Horrific pictures. I was a child during Vietnam and they never shielded us from those picture or the news on TV either.

I didn't really understand any of it in the way an adult would, but I understood it from a child's way of thinking and was not traumatized. I think it helped me see that war was a terrible thing.

I honestly wouldn't mind my middle-school age nephews seeing those Iraq pictures. Their parents would definitely not allow it. They are filling their heads with Republican/"religious" propaganda.

That is a pretty amazing story, that guy showing those pics to the scouts.

I agree that the commander was right in telling the people back home what they were getting. I think it was courageous of him to do so. It is in the best tradition of the military to be honest about what you face.

I've seen pictures my father took during World War II and Korea. He did not need to show the the horrors of the war he participated in, because he knew that his war was being conducted honestly. This commander knew this war was cheating the American people and soldiers, and thus he should have shown SOME of what he experienced.

However, I do think it was too graphic for children to see. A few pictures would have been unsettling enough. He could have said "these are some of the milder examples of what I experienced. I couldn't show you more of it because these make the point sufficiently."

And you people who are cheering on the shock effect these pictures caused - would you have enjoyed an anti-abortion guy showing aborted fetuses in a presentation to your kids? We must not be hypocrites about these "shock and awe" presentations, no matter who presents them. I'm sure you want to beat the crap out of your Republican neighbors, but that vicarious pleasure has a price.

And, being there, the reality sucked worse for the parents who so desperately want their children to believe in Bush and what he has done to us all. They were the ones freaking about the reality of their concept of beloved "patriotism."

I believe the pictures were too graphic for young children, but these 11- to 17-year-old kids see recreations of this stuff all the time on lots of video games their older siblings have turned them on to.

As to aborted fetuses, I can only give my own opinion. I personally would have no trouble to showing a picture of an aborted fetus to my 13-year-old daughter or son and telling them this could happen to you and you will have this to live with the rest of your life if you do not behave responsibly when it comes to sex. I mean, those pictures are the bottom line, are they not? And those pictures are the reality of abortion whether or not you have one due to irresponsible sexual behavior or rape. Fuckups just suck so bad and they are a part of life. The camera catches it for all time. Damned technology.

Just too bad that Bush and his chickenhawk cronies do not have the same set of balls when it comes to looking at the pictures of the reality they have created in Iraq. This soldier, unlike the limprods in Washington, is a man who, I believe, did the right thing. I was very shocked by his candor and awed by his bravery.

What about the Iraqi children who are seeing it
up close and personal?
sorry, I can not endorse your analogy of fetuses
and living human beings being slaughtered
in an illegal war and occupation.
Apples and oranges, as the saying goes.
BHN

"This commander also said that the soldiers arm their own vehicles and that the body armor has been slow in coming. None in his group had any. They spent time going through blown up buildings, vehicles, etc., looking for metal they can weld onto their transport vehicles."

I'm in Iraq right now. Let me tell you something about armor. No armor in this world can protect you from some of the IEDs that are out there. These things are rare but 1 ouf of 10 is a charge that will spit out hot liquid soft metal which goes thru any armor including Abrams Tanks. I've seen firsthand what it can do and trust me, if you come out of that tank, bradley or a hummer with only one limb missing, you're considered lucky.

We have enough armor, it's just that it doesn't work all the time.

And don't have to go looking for extra armor for your vehicle?

Whoa, hot liquid soft metal? How are those made? What are they using?

And, by the way, thank you. You must be in hell. I will not give up trying to bring you and everyone else home in one piece. Coming home with a missing limb is not the kind of luck you or anyone else deserves.

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to come out and be all sarcastic but the reality is, everything we ever do over here they counter with something new. They keep adapting and creating new ways to kill us. These things cost few thousand dollars to make and only few people can make them and they sell them on black market. It REALLY WILL GO THRU ANY ARMOR THAT WE OWN RIGHT NOW. I would rather have a suicide bomber in his little van park beside my humvee than encounter one of these IEDs.

....and our technology can't "out-do" theirs????????

part one is a shaped charge, designed to crack the outer armor.
part two uses a main charge to melt a soft metal and effecively 'inject' it into the body of the tank.

Its not pretty.

In the simple act of showing some slides to Boy Scouts, the commander may have saved a life, just by showing images of the truth
of war. Americans live in Disneyland/Las Vegas where death is just a video game. The reality of survival only gets experienced by the rest of the world. When will it stop? Only when we all have the courage to see who the monster is hiding behind the mask of the one we brand as evil.
Religion allows men to perpetrate horrendous crimes against other humans, other species by demonizing those who threaten their egos.
The truth allows no such comfort.
And what is the truth?
It cannot be spoken.
But everyone has the capacity to know it for themselves.
By simply looking within and inquiring.
Both Jesus and Buddha did so.
They stopped all movement, Jesus in the desert, Buddha under the bodhi tree, until the truth revealed itself to them.
This was not religion.
It was seeking the truth.
There were no followers.
Simply a desire to know.
"And the truth shall set you free."

:hi:

You old spiritualist kinda person, you.

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

Would he want to visit WA?

He has been on military leave from his company. I could ask. And I'm sure he would need his travel expenses covered. Is that a factor? I'm not sure if or when he is scheduled to return to Iraq.

Nobody wanted to hear what I had to say about Vietnam. One evening my mom and dad asked me what I was going to remember most about my tour. I told them that I'd never forget the look on my friend Dominic's face when he got gut shot and splattered blood all over me. He apologized and died. Later my dad came to my room and told me I had really upset my mom and he would thank me to never tell them any more. I didn't. But I have never forgot Dominic.

I worry about what my own son will be feeling when he comes home from Iraq.He is pretty blase,but I know it bothers him.

to worry. War is ugly. I hope that you will just let him talk. If he doesn't want to talk, don't push him. When he is ready the dam will break. Years later, after my dad died, my mom asked me about it again. By then I had time to sift through my emotions and knew what I wanted to say. It was good for both of us. Bless your son and I will pray for his safe return.

More people need to see the grisly realities of this war. So far Bushco. has done a pretty good job of hiding them from the sheeple. As a result these morons drive around in their vehicles with their $2.99 Wal Mart "Support The Troops" magnets and think it's all good.

They don't support anybody. They have the same amount of "support" for this war as they would for their favorite, hometown, high school football team. For these people there is little difference.

True, everyone back home should be exposed to it. But then again, I have been a member of the VFW for years. I have seen some of these kids coming back all screwed up. This is, honestly, a club to which I would rather not belong. I would hope that human beings could find another way to settle their differences. And that colonialism would end.

I hate those "support our troops" magnets. I support our troops, but I can't for the life of me support war. Especially this one. Every time I see those damn magnets I think of swastikas. If they support our troops then why don't they enlist and really get involved.

My bumper sticker says, "Draft Young Republicans". Lets see these chickenhawks put their lives on the line. If they feel so strongly about Bush and his stinking war, then they should enlist. Let's just hope they honor their commitments better than Bush did.

Here's to an impeachment trial right after the midterm elections.

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

Welcome!

:toast:

I can't imagine having something like that happen. Bless you and your sacrifice.

I still think the best remedy to war is to put the leaders in the Superdome and let them have at it. It would never happen. Old stupid men sending young men to war.

"I still think the best remedy to war is to put the leaders in the Superdome and let them have at it."

That thought went through my mind a million times! I always thought and still do, that those who start these damn wars should be the ones fighting them. Like the old saying, What would happen if someone started a war and nobody came? Kind of what is happening now. Recruitment is at historic lows and few are re-enlisting. Time for the leaders to send their own children.

War is the ultimate failure of diplomacy. Unfortunately, these asshats in the WH never gave diplomacy the chance to work.

Thanks for taking the time to post this. Real news - one of many reasons I love DU!

People need to know...

All he can say is no. I don't have a website where he can post. Wonder who might be interested.

I have a domain with nothing on it! I've had no time to deal with developing it but I'm off work for a while so maybe we should jump on this???

www.ourbluenation.com

This is our samizdat. Only when your average Joe sees the truth for him or herself will uniform mass protests emerge. I've seen photographs of the horrors of Iraq myself, charred corpses and flattened bodies are something that stay with you forever. Let people see the unsanitized truth. Unfortunate or no, it's good for them, and good for America.

I'm the mother of a Marine who has been to Iraq and back twice. I just looked at the site with the wounded soldiers and Marines and it broke my heart. We have a friend (son of my friend) who shipped out to Iraq 3 days after his 18th birthday (Legally he had to be 18 to be sent to war.) I was still preparing his care package to send when I received the call from my Marine son that my friend's son had had the lower half of his face blown off by a suicide bomber six weeks into his tour. The good news was that he was able to find his nose on the top of the Humvee.(So sad) He has had numerous surgeries, but is now considered 100% disabled at age 18. He was such a handsome young man. I think everyone needs to see what war really is.

I have a sticker on my car that says "My son is a United States Marine." Below that is my bumper sticker that reads "Another military family against Bush". I am proud of both my stickers. I want people to think when they read them.

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

I have friends with boys in the Marines. Neither family supports Bush.

Welcome!

:toast:

Hi,Marinemom- my son(Army) is just now going to his 2nd tour of duty in Iraq.I have a "bring them home" ribbon next to my "support the troops" ribbon..but I need to get one of those bumper stickers :)
Here's hoping both our boys get home safely...and soon...I have forwarded that memoryhole.com page to everyone I know(and a few people I don't know)

Since the media filters all the news from Iraq to minimize the horrible impact we've made there, it's up to solders and all of us to speak the truth.

No more sugar coating.

Ironic how to pubs couldn't wait to send him off to war. Even though they display "support our troops" magnets on their SUVs, now pubs apparently don't even find him acceptable to give a presentation to a troop of Boy Scouts. Unfortuantely he may be marginalized, stepped over, and discriminated against, for the rest of his life by the same people who encouraged him to go to war.

We shield our children from pictures but their children are living it..

I am glad this fellow was so honest.