REALIZE - they can bring back the Nuclear option at ANY TIME

We gave them essentially 5 judges for free.

Some people think this compromise is a setback for the Repugs.

That's bullshit. Using the nuclear option carried risks.

1. Risk that the public would rightly see it as a fascist abuse of power and rightly condemn the repubs at the ballot box.

2. that the dems would shut down the senate in protest

3. that the option would be tried, but FAIL (the objection to Cheney's unilateral rewrite of the rules would be upheld by majority vote), subjecting the repugs to the political risk of trying it, without the reward.


With the deal, they got 5 of their judges, without needing to use the nuclear option. they only needed to THREATEN to use it. With the deal, they retained the right to invoke it if the Democrats filibustered again (except for extraordinary circumstances, which will never be acknowledged by the republicans).

Its not like the nuclear option is gone for good, only delayed until the next time Democrats want to filibuster.

the repugs will claim democrats are breaking the agreement, and will have POLITICAL COVER to bring back the nuclear option.

And they'll threaten again, and Lieberman will suck their toes again.

McCain still anybody's hero?

Why do you think I'm so fucking pissed at Joe Lieberman and his DLC cronies?

It's not you. Please understand. But James Dobson's bitching aside, we took a potentially major loss tonight. And the American people will suffer for it.

because they expect aboslute satisfaction immediately.

If I were a repug, I'd be jumping for joy now.

We gave them a vote on 3 judges, 2 are out. It is not clear the 3 will all be confirmed. And the republicans agreed not to support the nuke option if it comes up again unless dems filibuster someone not considerred extreme. Extreme is defined by an agreement of 40 people it is extreme.

Sword of Damocles. Zyklon-B pellets ready to pour. It's all the same. The Repugs will bring the nuclear option down on the Senate any time they feel like it.

Remember Darth Vader? "I'm altering the bargain. Pray I don't alter it further."

There are only 44 Dems ... and a few of them are DINOs. No Repugs will side with the Dems. So ... what are the chances of getting 40 people to agree on what is extreme? :grr:

a democrat in the Senate now I'd pack up and go home.

providing for a definition of extreme circumstances.


Do you REALLY think the Republicans would agree to that?

they need a vauge definition to hold the N.O. over our heads later.



(I apologize for the link... I couldn't find a better one...)
http://thorley-winston.redstate.org/story/2005/5/23/201616/359

"extreme" for the purposes of this compromise is defined by a unanimous agreement of the 14 senators in that "moderates" group. If even just a couple of those senators do not agree that the candidate is "extreme", the whole deal is off.

what will happen is if we filibuster, they will claim we are breaking the agreement (because "extraordinary circumstances" is very vague), and then claim the right to reneg on their end of the bargain. thus, they will have political cover to introduce the N.O.

Watch them do this again before this year is over.

I have my doubts too. But think of the alternative. It would have happenned tomorrow. All 5 nominees would have went through. And the dems would have had to shut down the senate. It might feel good for you to think of the senate being shut down and no bush agenda getting through, but that means none of the everyday stuff that actually needs to get done and it would have been a Rove wet dream. No dem would ever get elected again the way it would have been spun. I want to slam dunk these thugs as much as anyone, but we didn't have the position to do it this time. We are now and will be at least till 2006 playing defense. This deal is the first bit of politics that we have seen in a long time, it is a comprimise. And after all the attacks and one side against the other it is no wonder that most don't trust the deal and want to fight to knock them out. But lets not give up hope that there are at least a few good republicans left and this is an deal made with good intentions. They didn't cut this cause we could shut the senate down, they cut this because the people didn't want the rules changed.

Seven is not just a nice biblical number, it is also the exact number of votes that we are short from stopping the nuclear option.

I don't know how legally binding this supposed agreement is, but I do believe that it is the more trustworthy seniors in the Senate who concocted this.

In your face, Frist!

bring back the nuclear option, just like folks wanted the dems to do today.

We saved the filibuster to fight another day. Gosh, don't you folks know anything about small victories and appreciated what you have?

Half Full, not Half Empty! :woohoo:

on both sides.

Why the HELL are you telling them they CAN??????????????????

get a hold of yourself.

they will just do it the next time we filibuster.

I'm sorry you are in denial about this deal.

The Republicans have been trying very hard to portray the nuclear option as the right thing to do. As restoring proper constitutional procedures. As being the fair way to handle things.

This deal -- especially if there is the widespread approval of it -- makes it very clear that the existing traditions of the Senate are where the moral center lies. If the Republicans try to pull the nuclear option out of their pocket at some later point, it will be obvious that it is just a power move.

That may not seem important to those of us who realize that's what it was all along. But in the court of public opinion, it could be absolutely crucial.