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DerekG (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 06:20 PM Original message |
A challenge to Clinton's apologists:Defend his role in the Iraqi sanctions |
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bpilgrim (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 06:22 PM Response to Original message |
1. well the reTHUGs would have just filibustered |
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DerekG (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 06:27 PM Response to Reply #1 |
3. I am not concerned with the Republicans |
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Michael_Bush (266 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 06:38 PM Response to Reply #3 |
12. Wow |
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Terran1212 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 08:21 PM Response to Reply #1 |
66. Clinton is in the same league of war criminal as Bush |
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oasis (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 09:12 PM Response to Reply #66 |
77. Where did you get that disinformation? |
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FlemingsGhost (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 06:25 PM Response to Original message |
2. Oh, man ... this should be good. Researched, well-written ... |
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Solly Mack (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 06:28 PM Response to Original message |
4. Can't help you. I was against the sanctions |
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WilliamPitt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 06:32 PM Original message |
I was against the sanctions for the most part |
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Frederik (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 06:34 PM Response to Original message |
8. That is not correct |
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KittyWampus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 06:37 PM Response to Reply #8 |
11. The Oil/Food $ Being Spent On Foodstuffs Etc. Released OTHER $ For |
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jobycom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 07:06 PM Response to Reply #11 |
21. Thank you, that's what I was going to point out |
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Frederik (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 06:34 PM Response to Original message |
9. The WMD were destroyed in 1991. |
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jayfish (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 08:46 PM Response to Reply #9 |
73. "Most" Of The WsMD Were Destroyed In 1991. |
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Frederik (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 06:32 PM Response to Original message |
5. You've got me on your side |
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KittyWampus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 06:32 PM Response to Original message |
6. Devil's Advocate Here: Sanctions Are A Means Of Bringing Pressure |
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Frederik (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 06:35 PM Response to Reply #6 |
10. But when they're obviously not working |
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KittyWampus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 06:40 PM Response to Reply #10 |
13. So You've No Problem With The US Trading With Thugs? It's Better We |
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K-W (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 07:00 PM Response to Reply #13 |
16. The US are thugs too, so how does that work? |
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KittyWampus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 07:04 PM Response to Reply #16 |
19. Is There Any Virtuous State? |
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K-W (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 07:26 PM Response to Reply #19 |
30. States are a product of their society, they cannot be inherently good. |
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Frederik (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 07:07 PM Response to Reply #13 |
22. If the sanctions killed a million Chinese |
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jobycom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 07:12 PM Response to Reply #10 |
25. When the alternative is war |
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K-W (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 07:31 PM Response to Reply #25 |
32. War was not an alternative, so what are you talking about? |
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jobycom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed May-25-05 11:33 AM Response to Reply #32 |
92. I've answered this all over, but one more time |
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Frederik (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 07:38 PM Response to Reply #25 |
38. But the alternative wasn't war |
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K-W (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 07:42 PM Response to Reply #38 |
39. If Clinton hadnt tried to appease the neocons |
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jobycom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed May-25-05 11:44 AM Response to Reply #38 |
93. If it's ridiculous, then why are we in Iraq now? |
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B Calm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 06:33 PM Response to Original message |
7. While I still believe the impeachment of President Clinton was to |
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Old and In the Way (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 07:16 PM Response to Reply #7 |
28. I agree.... |
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xchrom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 06:55 PM Response to Original message |
14. well done. |
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geek tragedy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 06:59 PM Response to Original message |
15. The fact that he was absolutely sure that Saddam wasn't diverting funds |
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FlemingsGhost (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 07:03 PM Response to Reply #15 |
17. Prove it, otherwise. |
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Frederik (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 07:08 PM Response to Reply #15 |
24. He administered the programme |
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geek tragedy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 07:15 PM Response to Reply #24 |
27. Anyone who's been reading the news knows that the program was corrupted |
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FlemingsGhost (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 07:35 PM Response to Reply #27 |
34. Proof? |
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geek tragedy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 08:05 PM Response to Reply #34 |
51. Proof |
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Frederik (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 07:44 PM Response to Reply #27 |
40. The Taliban offered to extradite Bin Laden |
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geek tragedy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 08:01 PM Response to Reply #40 |
47. Oh please, spare me the Taliban apologia. |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 08:04 PM Response to Reply #47 |
49. Deleted message |
geek tragedy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 08:07 PM Response to Reply #49 |
53. Bin Laden's terrorists blew up two US embassies in Africa, murdering |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 08:10 PM Response to Reply #53 |
55. Deleted message |
geek tragedy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 08:13 PM Response to Reply #55 |
58. Uh, I've been reading the news for the past decade or so. |
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aion (574 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 08:16 PM Response to Reply #58 |
62. Well that explains your illness |
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geek tragedy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 08:19 PM Response to Reply #62 |
63. I have the objective facts--which differentiates us. |
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aion (574 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 08:23 PM Response to Reply #63 |
67. You have no facts, you have only opinion |
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geek tragedy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 08:25 PM Response to Reply #67 |
68. Sorry to shatter your pro-Taliban, pro-bin Laden dreamworld, but |
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aion (574 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 08:30 PM Response to Reply #68 |
70. Use your brain, try using deduction rather than induction |
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geek tragedy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 08:35 PM Response to Reply #70 |
72. Good luck. n/t |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 08:51 PM Response to Reply #72 |
74. Deleted message |
FlemingsGhost (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 08:15 PM Response to Reply #53 |
60. Proof? |
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geek tragedy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 08:20 PM Response to Reply #60 |
64. Here you go: |
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FlemingsGhost (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 08:32 PM Response to Reply #64 |
71. How telling: |
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LynnTheDem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed May-25-05 05:52 AM Response to Reply #71 |
89. Always the usual from that poster, isn't it. |
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aion (574 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed May-25-05 11:55 AM Response to Reply #89 |
94. Sophists only believe in pursuasion. Deductive Reasoning be damned. |
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Frederik (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed May-25-05 05:16 AM Response to Reply #47 |
86. You're not very well-informed |
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geek tragedy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed May-25-05 12:04 PM Response to Reply #86 |
96. And those having read that article would be able to note |
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Frederik (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed May-25-05 02:50 PM Response to Reply #96 |
101. The Taliban |
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geek tragedy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed May-25-05 04:01 PM Response to Reply #101 |
105. Why didn't the Taliban give Osama and his goons up in 1998? eom |
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Frederik (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed May-25-05 04:53 PM Response to Reply #105 |
106. Osama had the support of Pakistan eom. |
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aion (574 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 08:01 PM Response to Reply #40 |
48. Posada and Osama -- yin and yang |
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Frederik (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed May-25-05 02:54 PM Response to Reply #48 |
102. Posada is a freedom fighter |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 08:11 PM Response to Reply #27 |
56. You mean the conservative media using lies from Chalabi? |
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geek tragedy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 08:14 PM Response to Reply #56 |
59. No, I'm talking about the inquiry commissioned by the UN that led to the |
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Guy Whitey Corngood (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed May-25-05 05:47 PM Response to Reply #15 |
108. So are people who think Hugo Chavez will attack the US |
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jobycom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 07:03 PM Response to Original message |
18. Not apologist. Bold supporter |
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FlemingsGhost (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 07:06 PM Response to Reply #18 |
20. Nice rebuttal |
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bpilgrim (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 07:13 PM Response to Reply #18 |
26. "The whole point of sanctions was to prevent a war" - it was OVER, and |
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jobycom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 07:29 PM Response to Reply #26 |
31. The war began again in 2003, or have you forgotten about that? |
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Frederik (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 07:53 PM Response to Reply #31 |
43. Clinton was president |
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jobycom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 08:10 PM Response to Reply #43 |
54. Congress declares war, not the president |
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Frederik (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed May-25-05 05:19 AM Response to Reply #54 |
87. Congress declares war after the president asks them to |
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jobycom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed May-25-05 10:58 AM Response to Reply #87 |
91. No war was declared in Iraq. |
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Frederik (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed May-25-05 01:48 PM Response to Reply #91 |
99. Again: |
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bpilgrim (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 10:53 PM Response to Reply #31 |
82. FYI: we 'WON' that one, too... |
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Michael_Bush (266 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 07:18 PM Response to Reply #18 |
29. There were other options |
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jobycom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 07:38 PM Response to Reply #29 |
37. Excellent points |
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Michael_Bush (266 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 08:06 PM Response to Reply #37 |
52. Reagan's failures |
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jobycom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 08:16 PM Response to Reply #52 |
61. Again, I agree |
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Michael_Bush (266 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 08:25 PM Response to Reply #61 |
69. The Middle East WAS democractic |
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Frederik (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 07:35 PM Response to Reply #18 |
35. "neo-con talking points" |
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jobycom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 07:59 PM Response to Reply #35 |
46. Yes, neocon talking points |
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Frederik (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed May-25-05 05:39 AM Response to Reply #46 |
88. Justifying sanctions with the fear of the Iraqi military |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 08:20 PM Response to Reply #35 |
65. Thank you for injecting some sanity. |
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IrateCitizen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed May-25-05 03:04 PM Response to Reply #18 |
103. One big quibble with your last paragraph, jobycom... |
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BigBearJohn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed May-25-05 06:32 PM Response to Reply #18 |
111. I'm with you! Excellent writing. |
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LynnTheDem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 07:08 PM Response to Original message |
23. I don't defend it. The majority of the world was opposed to the sanctions |
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KittyWampus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 07:31 PM Response to Reply #23 |
33. All we EVER had to do in 1990 was tell Hussein "DO NOT ATTACK KUWAIT." |
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LynnTheDem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 08:11 PM Response to Reply #33 |
57. Sorry but no it isn't a stretch at all. |
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Tierra_y_Libertad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 07:36 PM Response to Original message |
36. The "Big Dawg" has a lot of fleas. Ask about Rwanda. |
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G_j (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed May-25-05 12:55 PM Response to Reply #36 |
98. yes, Rwanda immediately comes to mind also |
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eridani (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 07:46 PM Response to Original message |
41. We could have swapped sanctions-- |
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latebloomer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 07:47 PM Response to Original message |
42. Ah yes, and wasn't it Madeline Albright |
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DerekG (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 07:53 PM Response to Reply #42 |
44. "We think the price is worth it." |
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LightningFlash (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed May-25-05 12:34 PM Response to Reply #44 |
97. I remember it regretfully... |
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Frederik (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 07:57 PM Response to Reply #42 |
45. So she said |
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latebloomer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 08:04 PM Response to Reply #45 |
50. Yup, these wolves are all on the same page |
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Tinoire (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 09:04 PM Response to Original message |
75. No apologetics here. I hold Clinton as guilty as I do Bush. |
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B Calm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 09:08 PM Response to Original message |
76. Why not blame the president who started the sanctions? Hell come |
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DerekG (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 09:39 PM Response to Reply #76 |
79. For the same reason I condemn Richard Nixon |
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ariellyn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 09:15 PM Response to Original message |
78. In other words, it's all Clinton's fault |
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FlemingsGhost (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 09:43 PM Response to Reply #78 |
80. Maybe next time, you will actually rebut the OP... |
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ariellyn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 09:55 PM Response to Reply #80 |
81. In light of the many travesties facing us today, I hardly think this |
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DerekG (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 11:07 PM Response to Reply #81 |
83. The deaths of Iraqis can't compare to......the deaths of Iraqis? |
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bpilgrim (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 11:32 PM Response to Reply #83 |
85. "a 15 year war crime" -hmmm... |
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LynnTheDem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed May-25-05 05:55 AM Response to Reply #83 |
90. "Gulf War I/the Iraqi Sanctions/Gulf War II as a 15 year war crime" |
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bpilgrim (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-05 11:13 PM Response to Reply #78 |
84. of course NOT, he ain't the only one |
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LightningFlash (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed May-25-05 12:01 PM Response to Original message |
95. I will not defend them whatsoever. Clinton made a mistake. |
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rocktop15 (376 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed May-25-05 01:54 PM Response to Original message |
100. Ahh yes the pro-business candidate that everyone loves.... |
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yurbud (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed May-25-05 03:09 PM Response to Original message |
104. Clinton looked out for us domesticly part of the time |
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Dirk39 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed May-25-05 05:33 PM Response to Original message |
107. But Clinton was a diplomatic and multilateral war-criminal.... |
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BigBearJohn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed May-25-05 06:15 PM Response to Original message |
109. And I thought the Republicans were the only ones who ate their own |
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AuntPatsy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed May-25-05 06:24 PM Response to Reply #109 |
110. Good smokescreen to avoid talking about what is happening today |
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