One good thing about Abu Ghraib is that we will no longer be able to brag

about our reverence for laws and our humanitarian approach even in wars.

It used to be an article fo faith during the Vietnam War years to deride the Vietcong as savages.It looks like that savagery is now on the other foot and the displays of sheer brutality toward helpless civilians and innocent people rounded up at Abu Ghraib has stripped the mask off the face.

From now on, it will not do to pretend that we are a civilized nation.We have a lot of proving to do.And not the Laura Bush praying at the wailing wall either.

What's the truth next to a cherished lie? Abu Ghraib was "just a handful of bad apples" and "these photos are the media's fault." :puke:

that the people of Baghdad will turn out in full force throwing flowers at us. But the world has stopped laughing and smiling at us.From now on the smiling altruistic American image will be a hard sell throughout the world.

it's the perfect example of manifest destiny in the 21st century.
invade, conquer, torture, humiliate, steal, kill everything that moves, set up nice little towns with churches and liquor stores and mcdonalds.

prisoners in our own country?

Corrections officers are sought for their expertise in today's army (small "a" intended.) The pictures are Abu Ghraib are proof of that. Too bad we don't have pictures of the happenings at Gitmo.

I'm fucking PISSED that this country has evolved into everything I was taught we weren't. Growing up, it was USSR=bad, USA=good.

I'm no longer a proud American - and it's heartbreaking and ire-inspiring. Nothing good about it...:thumbsdown:

i never did understand all this uber nationalsistic pride, over what?
what do we have to be so cocksure proud of? i guess maybe even rome was a good society at one time, before the americanism killed it.

I've just never been as ashamed of it as I've become.:(

first step in reclaiming our humanity. In fact, I think by stripping the mask off of our superiority, the healing process may have been a given a chance.From that perspective, it is indeed a good thing.Until we recognize that we are no better and no worse than anyone else we are never going to be whole.

For us to invest despicable and foolish men like Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld with an aura of wisdom and infallibility is what led to Abu Ghraib.Swallowing their tall tales of 9/11,AlQaeda, WMD's, Niger yellowcake and a few bad apples at Abu Ghraib are all part of the delusions that we need to abandon.

...I just wish it (the ascension of the BFEE) never happened.:(

my immigrant parents's deep and abiding faith in this country's goodness.The sense of sadness one feels now has to be tempered with the hope that may be if we become part of other human beings's struggles instead of strutting around as people invested with a superior wisdom, we may well become a better nation.

...to teach us enough humility to stop taking our "saintliness" for granted.

I agree with your earlier point about our not being able to sell our propaganda vision of ourselves to the rest of the world anymore, but then, large segments of the rest of the world probably already knew all about us quite apart from having their suspicions further validated by Abu Ghraib.

but first, we must descend even further into shame for another 3 and 1/2 years.

world is moving past us and the economic achievements of many countries and the betterment of lives that this implies to onec poor countries like India and China is further going to make us laughingstocks especially when we flaunt our military superiority.When that superiority is worthless in bringing a better life for our own citizens and we invoke imaginary enemies to keep ourselves on edge all the time, we are going to become tiresome busybodies nobody even wants to be associated with.

Doesn't it gall you that Japan and Germany, two of the most detested countries just fifty years ago, are the most admired countries now? And we have replaced both of these societies as the most hated nation on earth.?

i ain't arguing with you, but i guess i'm so pissed all the time everyone thinks i am. i agree, we all ought to be ashamed, and look to improving things.

:thumbsup:

He could easily call it the "United States of Denial", however.